Fall Patch changes discussion thread

[bonafide11]

Would Japan now get tourism from fishing boats/atolls as well once they do a hotel/airport? I am assuming yes.

Both Hotels and Airports give "Culture from World Wonders, Natural Wonders, and Improvements (Landmarks, Moai, Chateau)" so I would assume not (fishing boats are improvements, but not on this list).

But this cries out for a test. Anyone?

I would have to assume they would -- or should anyway -- get that tourism bonus since fishing boats are an improvement. Do any tiles that provide culture not give the tourism bonus?

 

[turingmachine]

Both Hotels and Airports give "Culture from World Wonders, Natural Wonders, and Improvements (Landmarks, Moai, Chateau)" so I would assume not (fishing boats are improvements, but not on this list).

But this cries out for a test. Anyone?

The buildings only check culture tile yield, it doesn't matter the source. So it will convert Japanese fishing boats to tourism

 

[Browd]

Confirmed. Just fired up an Info Era start for Japan and, sure enough, Hotels and Airports stack to give 100% tourism from the fishing boat tile-improvement culture.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

The buildings only check culture tile yield, it doesn't matter the source. So it will convert Japanese fishing boats to tourism

that sounds like if you took the pantheon for +1 culture per jungle that it would check the jungle tile and give it tourism when it has nothing to do with an improvement. i would think there has to be some other more precise checking method. (and btw, i havent tested any of this.)

 

[civ54lyfe]

i didn't know that the building text specifically says "improved tiles" ?

 

[Browd]

Since I didn't have the patience to start a pre-Industrial Era game and work my way all the way up to Hotels and Airports, I IGE'd the earlier game to give myself the Religious Idols pantheon (+1 culture/+1 faith from gold and silver). That pantheon gives you culture and faith whether or not the tile is improved with a mine, so I set up 2 gold tiles - 1 with a mine and other unimproved. Both gave the +1 culture/+1 faith, but only the tile improved with a mine generated the extra tourism. I then built a fort on the unimproved gold tile and got +1 tourism. Does not work, however, if the only improvement is a road or railroad.

So, it does look like Hotels and Airports just check to see if there is ANY substantive improvement on the tile. If so, any culture generated from that tile adds to tourism.

 

[civ54lyfe]

good to know, yet by Refrigeration it's hard to imagine any unimproved tiles left around a city that you'd feel worth it to build a H/A in. unless maybe a cruddy Plains that you're waiting to plant an Academy on or something

 

[Marathoner]

The only thing cooler would have been Linear A

Be neat but unintelligible.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Since I didn't have the patience to start a pre-Industrial Era game and work my way all the way up to Hotels and Airports, I IGE'd the earlier game to give myself the Religious Idols pantheon (+1 culture/+1 faith from gold and silver). That pantheon gives you culture and faith whether or not the tile is improved with a mine, so I set up 2 gold tiles - 1 with a mine and other unimproved. Both gave the +1 culture/+1 faith, but only the tile improved with a mine generated the extra tourism. I then built a fort on the unimproved gold tile and got +1 tourism. Does not work, however, if the only improvement is a road or railroad.

So, it does look like Hotels and Airports just check to see if there is ANY substantive improvement on the tile. If so, any culture generated from that tile adds to tourism.

thanks. that is quite a clarification. it first checks for culture and then for an improvement (or vice versa) so a jungle with a trade post would get the tourism bonus but not with road or unimproved.

 

[Furycrab]

it's not consulates that need nerf. it is that pledge to protect needs to be completely removed (at least the + to CS influence from it). it is especially ridiculous in MP games where PtoP + Consulates == every CS on map as friend with HUGE bonuses.

The bigger issue is that there's no consequence to Pledging someone across the map involved in wars you have no desire to be in. That and the Diplo modifier for being bullied is silly low/temporary.

Personally I think you should lose the influence bonus if the CS is in a war you are not currently involved in... It would balance out the mid game and realistically if you lose half or more of your "free" friends you might question going patronage if your goal was just to have the friends.

 

[Buccaneer]

Going into Patronage just to get Consulates is so automatic/abused, might as well just have a Friend button. There has to be real consequences and right now there's almost none and that's not right.

 

[Aaron90495]

Going into Patronage just to get Consulates is so automatic/abused, might as well just have a Friend button. There has to be real consequences and right now there's almost none and that's not right.

"You have sent Quebec City a friend request."

 

[Uncle_Joe]

They are more aggressive. BUT, they are not on Gods & Kings level aggression (Which is a good thing, mind you)
If I were to put G&K Aggression at a 10 on the Aggression scale and BNW as a 1, I think with this patch, they fall around the 4/5. I've seen a handful more Ancient/Classical wars (I play 18 player maps, mind), and come medieval I've seen a LOT more. Interestingly, in my last game most warmongers kept up pretty well with the score (That's to say, Shaka, Boudicca and Ashurbanipal did, Alexander was in the lower end of the middle pack, and Montezuma was eradicated by Assyria + Zulu one-two punch), while more peaceful players are also at the bottom of the pack (Pacal only had two cities)
Also surprising, Shaka had only built 4 cities by the time I founded my 5th.

Haven't really seen it directed at me yet. I DID have Gandhi of all people actually DoW me in the 1800s of my 2nd game but he launched an ineffectual assault (quite a feat when I only had 4 units total and they were a generation behind...). He basically moved around the borders and was killed by Gatlings and cities (while moving around a CS I was allied with and taking massive damage from THEIR city, cannon, and nearby ships).

Other than that, it's been the same love-fest it's always been. Almost everyone wants to be my friend and loves giving me RAs and Open Borders and luxuries etc. Only Gandhi and Shaka aren't friendly anymore (and Gandhi was till I told him to stop converting my cities and I started converting his...). Shaka is a rump state from constant wars with nearly everyone else. Denmark (also previously friendly with me) is gone.

So I see quite a few wars around, but just that one ineffectual attack directed my way in 2 games with the patch. Again, I'm pursuing the four mega-cities strategy (although I did eventually build a 5th on an island much later). I'm tech leader by a significant margin, although the Chinese outproduce me and have a higher pop. I expect it to be a relatively close game now that I was actually attacked once. I wonder if it would have happened if I had just let Gandhi convert my cities and be done with it?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

thanks. that is quite a clarification. it first checks for culture and then for an improvement (or vice versa) so a jungle with a trade post would get the tourism bonus but not with road or unimproved.

Right. The Moai etc that are in the Hotel and Airport descriptions are just examples, not the definitive list of tile yield enhancements that provide the Tourism from those buildings.

 

[seasnake]

FYI, played a game. Minutemen which were always good are now top-tier, and if you have barracks in a couple of cities your army of far-seeing, promoted minutemen will be able to spot weakened enemies and swoop in for a the kill. Gets a golden age fairly quickly in short order.

 

[Kurtbob]

A thought occurred to me. I will no longer have to deal with Germany's Landsknecht zerg rush! I always hated being next to Germany just for that reason. Not that I couldn't defend against it, but it was always irritating to see a carpet of them coming into my territory.

For those who have played the beta, have you seen the AI with Landskenchts yet? If so, how many of them had the AI produced and how did they use them? It would be great, and somewhat annoying, if any AI Civ could pull off a Landsknecht rush...but I have my doubts.

 

[Loucypher]

A thought occurred to me. I will no longer have to deal with Germany's Landsknecht zerg rush! I always hated being next to Germany just for that reason. Not that I couldn't defend against it, but it was always irritating to see a carpet of them coming into my territory.

For those who have played the beta, have you seen the AI with Landskenchts yet? If so, how many of them had the AI produced and how did they use them? It would be great, and somewhat annoying, if any AI Civ could pull off a Landsknecht rush...but I have my doubts.

I've seen Indonesia hold a bunch of landsknecht (Think there were 5 of them as far as I could see) when my Caravel sailed past him, but unfortunately they were on the other side of the world so I didn't stick around to see what happened.

As to those saying its a love fest: How is your local position on the map? In my recent games, one game my cities were so hard to reach up until rennaisance, the AI probably figured it wasn't worth the bother, but they did definitely fight among one another like crazy. In the other game, there was a bit less war (Still more then the average BNW game), but I did recieve a DOW in the Classical era (from Pocatello) and one in the early Medievals (from Genghis).

 

[Loucypher]

Just as a quick update on Japan: Culture they get from Atolls is NOT counted towards the tourism you get from Hotels and Airports. Had an Atoll near one of my cities, as well as a total of 6 culture from fishing boats and 2 from a landmark, for a total of 10 culture, 8 excluding the atoll - got 4 tourism from the Hotel. Screenshot included.

 

[Browd]

That's because there's no way to construct an improvement on an atoll. The Hotel/Airport culture => tourism boost requires an improvement on the culture-generating tile.

 

[GrayingGamer]

Still no ability to check global diplomacy when an AI comes to you with a friendship offer? Disappointing...