Famous first names

[mitsho]

Well, I did'nt knew that thing about the place, but Leonardo is usually known as Leonardo da Vinci, thus both names, at least around here.

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[Marla_Singer]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed before (i did a quick history check).
Any ways, I have pondered apon this for a while. Why are some people remembered for the first names instead of their last?

Also list any famous people you can think ouf that are remembered by their fisrt and not their last names. Here are the ones I can come up with off hand

[...]Napoleon[...]

Napoleon Bonaparte is known as the General Bonaparte untill he became Emperor and then Napoleon the Ist. If he's remembered for his first name, it's not simply because he had a funny name but also because it's the traditional way to call monarchs.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Raphaello or Donatello are more Artist knicknames than simply first names. It's a bit the same for El Greco or Fra Angelico for instance.

I don't consider this as different from Björk Guðmundsdóttir better known as Björk or Marshall Mathers who's better known as Eminem.

 

[Parque]

For kings and queens could using there first name maybe it could be symbolic. I don't know what respecting rules they had back in the 1600s and so, but now if you want to respect someone who is perhaps superior in the heirarchy than you, then you refer to them as Mr. or Mrs. and not by first name. Maybe it sybolised that the King and Queen are only as powerful as the people they rule.

 

[superisis]

This is not a surname, it just say that he's from a place called Vinci. He probably didn't have a surname, like most people.

ofcourse it is a surname... Often surnames describe where you came from or what profession you had or who you father was.

 

[Marla_Singer]

For kings and queens could using there first name maybe it could be symbolic. I don't know what respecting rules they had back in the 1600s and so, but now if you want to respect someone who is perhaps superior in the heirarchy than you, then you refer to them as Mr. or Mrs. and not by first name. Maybe it sybolised that the King and Queen are only as powerful as the people they rule.

Well we use first names to call Kings and Queens mostly because it would be hard to differenciate them if we were using their surname. After all, the idea is that your the son of a king becomes king once the king is dead right ? How to differenciate the son and the father if it's not in using their first names ?

 

[Dark Khan]

alexandros is a very famous name (iskender,skandar,alexander...)

 

[Plotinus]

That's because Plotinus is smart enough not to post unless he knows what he is talking about.

That's right. That's why you won't find me in the Sports forum!

Because Aquinas is known in German as Thomas of Aquinas (if I got you right and you were in fact referring to Thomas... ), or at least I never heard of him as Aquinas..

Yes, Thomas Aquinas. The place was actually called Aquino, so he would be Thomas of Aquino or Thomas Aquinas. You could say that this is a point of transition from "place of origin" nickname to real surname. There are a few other characters who are referred to ambiguously like this - Gregory of Nazianzus and Gregory of Nyssa are sometimes known as Gregory Nazianzen and Gregory Nyssen respectively, as if they are surnames; but I think this this is really just an affectation on the part of certain scholars. Of course, in Greek and Latin, "of X" is only one word, so there is less distinction between such a nickname and a surname, at least in appearance. The question of course is what people called them at the time, rather than how we talk about them now.

What I think would be interesting would be to see where such names become hereditary, since then you've got a true surname. For example, as I said, we talk about "Peter Abelard" although it's a nickname (one he used himself, though of uncertain meaning - maybe from "abeille", or bee, or "bajulus", or teacher). But would his son, Astrolabus, have used it? Presumably not.

 

[sydhe]

Well, I did'nt knew that thing about the place, but Leonardo is usually known as Leonardo da Vinci, thus both names, at least around here.

The Turtle on the other hand...

Seriously, I often hear Leonardo da Vinci and Galileo Galilei referred to by their first name only. For instance, there's a book entitled Galileo's Daughter, but none called Galilei's Daugther. The corresponding book about Johannes Kepler would be Kepler's Daughter.

Leonardo da Vinci always referred to himself as Leonardo; Vinci is the place he came from. However, his father was Ser Piero da Vinci, and Leonardo could be referred to as Leonardo, the son of Piero of Vinci. Among other things, this distinguishes him from Leonardo of Pisa, who is also known (posthumously) as Fibonacci (son of Bonacci).

 

[superisis]

Because Aquinas is known in German as Thomas of Aquinas (if I got you right and you were in fact referring to Thomas... ), or at least I never heard of him as Aquinas..

Yes, Thomas Aquinas. The place was actually called Aquino, so he would be Thomas of Aquino or Thomas Aquinas. You could say that this is a point of transition from "place of origin" nickname to real surname. There are a few other characters who are referred to ambiguously like this - Gregory of Nazianzus and Gregory of Nyssa are sometimes known as Gregory Nazianzen and Gregory Nyssen respectively, as if they are surnames; but I think this this is really just an affectation on the part of certain scholars. Of course, in Greek and Latin, "of X" is only one word, so there is less distinction between such a nickname and a surname, at least in appearance. The question of course is what people called them at the time, rather than how we talk about them now.

What I think would be interesting would be to see where such names become hereditary, since then you've got a true surname. For example, as I said, we talk about "Peter Abelard" although it's a nickname (one he used himself, though of uncertain meaning - maybe from "abeille", or bee, or "bajulus", or teacher). But would his son, Astrolabus, have used it? Presumably not.

I never said such a thing... I retract my previous statement:

That's because Plotinus is smart enough not to post unless he knows what he is talking about.

The above statement is false... I've come to understand,

The Turtle on the other hand...

Seriously, I often hear Leonardo da Vinci and Galileo Galilei referred to by their first name only. For instance, there's a book entitled Galileo's Daughter, but none called Galilei's Daugther. The corresponding book about Johannes Kepler would be Kepler's Daughter.

Leonardo da Vinci always referred to himself as Leonardo; Vinci is the place he came from. However, his father was Ser Piero da Vinci, and Leonardo could be referred to as Leonardo, the son of Piero of Vinci. Among other things, this distinguishes him from Leonardo of Pisa, who is also known (posthumously) as Fibonacci (son of Bonacci).

There are pleanty of Leonardos in history, Leonardo Bruni, Leonardo da Vinci, Leonardo di Caprio, etc.

 

[mrtn]

Well, what is a surname?
If you go by the definition that "a surname is your second name" then of course da Vinci is a surname.
If you on the other hand go by the definition that "a surname is a name that you share with your ancestors/relatives" then that's probably not the case. I don't believe that any family members of Leonardos would be called "his wife Mary da Vinci, and their son Bob da Vinci". Especially not if they moved from Vinci.

If he'd lived now on the other hand it would have been a surname, but he isn't.

 

[Japanrocks12]

When faced with the keywoards famous, first, and names, my brain immediately pulls out "Jawaharlal"

 

[superisis]

I don't believe that any family members of Leonardos would be called "his wife Mary da Vinci, and their son Bob da Vinci".

well apparantly:

... his father was Ser Piero da Vinci, and Leonardo could be referred to as Leonardo, the son of Piero of Vinci.

 

[Plotinus]

But that was just because they both came from the same place. Leonardo did not "inherit" the name "da Vinci" from his father - he was illegitimate. They both had it independently, as it were, in virtue of coming from Vinci. If Leonardo had moved to another city and had a son, the son would not have been called da Vinci. So it's not a surname. The question is, at what point did such names start to become hereditary even though they no longer applied to the son as they did to the father? I don't know what the answer is, but presumably it's very complicated and varied according to place. After all, in parts of Wales they still use bynames (nicknames based upon occupation), at least informally. Remember in "Ivor the Engine", the engine driver was Jones the Steam, the station master was Dai Station, and the choir master was Evans the Song!

 

[superisis]

Now you're drifting off topic. But on that "off topic", in Iceland the kids still inherit thier fathers first name as their surname. Example: Einar Gudmunsson's son Gudmun would be named Gudmun Einarsson (if it had been a daugter, Ingrid, then the name would have been Ingrid Einarsdottir)

Still you haven't retracted your claim that I made the following statement:

Because Aquinas is known in German as Thomas of Aquinas (if I got you right and you were in fact referring to Thomas... ), or at least I never heard of him as Aquinas..

I am most offended

 

[slip79]

How about Classical Greek and Roman names?
Caesar
Euripides
Aeschylus
Pompey
Marius
Plato
Aristotle
and the list just goes on..... and on..........
Again though this is because most of them probably didn't have what we would call "surnames".

 

[superisis]

The question (as I see it), has boiled down to:

Why are some people remembered by their first name and others (of the same time period, culture and profession) by their last?


Any takers?

 

[Japanrocks12]

The question (as I see it), has boiled down to:

Why are some people remembered by their first name and others (of the same time period, culture and profession) by their last?


Any takers?

Because some people had cool, strange, or simple first names, and others had cool, strange, or simple last names

 

[Dreadnought]

How about Classical Greek and Roman names?
Caesar
and the list just goes on..... and on..........
Again though this is because most of them probably didn't have what we would call "surnames".

Uhh, that was not his first name...

JULIUS Caesar...

 

[YNCS]

After all, in parts of Wales they still use bynames (nicknames based upon occupation), at least informally. Remember in "Ivor the Engine", the engine driver was Jones the Steam, the station master was Dai Station, and the choir master was Evans the Song!

My favorite Welsh name of this type was held by a man named Jones who worked for the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) and was called "Jones the Cruelty."