Fanfiction

Modern fanfiction is just a throwback to an older style of storytelling traditionally between friends and family that uses and reuses characters from a shared mythos.

It is a thing that teenage girls do for fun, so therefore it is the absolute worst according to grumpy old men. The fan writers are creative and collaborative, the old grumps debate about who has the best curation of collected official materials. But really its just different ways of enjoying an established work.
 
If you're going to write about characters and a world, yeah you should be faithful to them.
(unless the whole point of what's you're writing is to take a different spin about them, but I'd say it starts leaving the realm of fanfiction by then)

Art is by nature iterative. People take things they like, switch them up a bit according to their own taste and lens, mash it up with some other stuff they like, and return it as something new. Fanfiction is doing no differently.

Wagner's Ring des Nibelungen is essentially a fanfiction of das Nibelunglied with a bunch of random elements from the Norse Eddas thrown in for good measure, layered over a Greek-style trilogy+satyr play
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is a mashup of Wagner's Ring, Anglo-Saxon myths, and traditional Welsh/Celtic myths, with a bunch of linguistics nerdery thrown in on top.
And all of those are probably iterations of older Indo-European folktales/mythology

This is of course leaving aside the other part of the argument, which is that auteur theory is <snip> and the "correct interpretation" of a text is as much if not moreso in the hands of the receiver than the sender.

Moderator Action: You know what you're doing, and you should stop. Writing out what the swear word means in big capital letters instead of using the swear word itself doesn't absolve you of the inappropriate language rules. - Vincour
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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The idea that fanfiction is, as a rule, awful is a new one to me. I only discovered its general existence with MLP fanfiction, and https://www.fimfiction.net/ has user ratings and reviews, genres, word count filters, content filters, character filters, etc. etc. So pretty much everything I've read (to the tune of about three Bible's worth of wordcount) has been generally good. It is a fantastic concept if you ask me. Allows for a ton of fun stuff that wouldn't otherwise be publishable or allowed due to IP law (crossover fanfics for example, merging two or more separate entities).
 
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Art is by nature iterative. People take things they like, switch them up a bit according to their own taste and lens, mash it up with some other stuff they like, and return it as something new. Fanfiction is doing no differently.

Wagner's Ring des Niebelungen is essentially a fanfiction of das Niebelunglied with a bunch of random elements from the Norse Eddas thrown in for good measure, layered over a Greek-style trilogy+satyr play
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is a mashup of Wagner's Ring, Anglo-Saxon myths, and traditional Welsh/Celtic myths, with a bunch of linguistics nerdery thrown in on top.
And all of those are probably iterations of older Indo-European folktales/mythology
Taking inspiration is not fanfiction and it's a basic enough difference I can safely take for granted you're totally aware of it and are just being contrarian.
This is of course leaving aside the other part of the argument, which is that auteur theory is <snip> and the "correct interpretation" of a text is as much if not moreso in the hands of the receiver than the sender.
I don't subscribe to the "death of the author" theory. It has some truth in part of it (because as for everything, what you think you do and what you do might be rather different, and how what you write is perceived could have whole aspects you didn't realize), but that's about it.
 
Thank you for your assumption.
Sorry, didn't notice that sentence. But it still seems to me that you're dismissing a hell of a lot of material that's available. There are literally millions of stories and poems available online, and unless what you're looking for is really niche, I find it hard to believe that you can't find at least one good story about it somewhere. My own print 'zine collection contains over 100 (probably closer to 200) volumes of fanfic and filk music. Granted, it's not all top-notch. But I'm pretty picky in what I buy, and check the information and reviews on Fanlore.org.



What are your interests, and where have you looked?


As for me... I do know about niche interests. I can't find even ONE story about the Hulzein Saga, and the only reference I've come across to fanfic for that series is a plaintive question years ago on LiveJournal - a fellow fan asking if any fanfic existed for it.

Apparently it doesn't. So I decided I would have to write my own, which took up 1.5 NaNoWriMo contests last year. I'm simultaneously working on a wiki (a really frustrating project, since F.M. Busby didn't bother with consistency or counting dates and years very well - and the series is only 8 books long!). Busby died many years ago, and he'd quit writing in the '90s, so he's not around to object if I develop a timeline that actually makes sense.

So now I get to decide whatever happened to Voris Kerguelen (he disappears early in the first book, and the reader is evidently supposed to assume he is dead... but he doesn't have to be so I decided he isn't, and have begun a story arc about this second-tier character who was quite influential on the main series character - his niece, Rissa Kerguelen). I'm also doing a lot of "what happens next" on several planets after the main characters left. Busby opened the door for numerous characters' stories to continue, if he'd been interested in doing so.

I've never read any fan fiction that I'm aware of, but anything that encourages people to put pen to paper or fingers to the keyboard to generate complete sentences and long paragraphs, is a good thing. The physical process of writing at length improves thinking skills and will clarify one thoughts.
Violet ran into the kitchen and climbed up onto the table, where Mossfoot was setting up the maps, dice, and Cokes for that night's game. "Mossy!" she cried. "My story is finally going to be finished!"

Mossfoot looked up and smiled. "That's great, Violet." Then he paused, confused. "What story?"

"The story about me, silly," she said. "Weren't you paying attention to what everyone was saying in the NaNoWriMo forum at Dragonloft? I'm going to be the star of one of the stories next year!" She frowned suddenly. "Well, it was supposed to be last year. Or the year before. The notes got lost." She brightened again, though. "But they were found a few days ago, so it's going ahead."

Mossfoot set a six-pack of Coke in the spot where their friend Ben could reach them easily. "Well, I'm happy for you," he said. "The Big People have written a lot about me and only one story about you so far, so it's only fair that you get another one. I hope those notes, whatever they are, don't get lost again."

The violet teddy bear frowned. "You're right. I'd better go over to Castle Arcadia and make sure they're in a safe place. Be right back."

"You're going now?" Mossfoot protested. "Ben and Target will be here any minute for the game, and you know they hate waiting. Besides, if you're late, Ben will never let you forget it."

"I'll take one of the magic ways," Violet said. "The Big Folk are pretty disorganized most of the time, so I'm gonna make sure those notes are safe, even if I have to sit on 'em myself." She hopped off the kitchen table and sped out the door.

Mossfoot sighed and set up his Dungeon Master's screen. It could be a long night ahead.



There, @Birdjaguar. If you read the above, you have just read fanfiction. It's a bit meta - but it's Fuzzy Knights fanfic that I just wrote.

Fuzzy Knights is a webcomic that's been around for many years, and is about a group of sentient stuffed toys who enjoy playing Dungeons & Dragons-type games. It started as a parody of the FRPG Knights of the Dinner Table (about a group of friends who sit around a dinner table playing FRPGs), and then took on a life of its own. The creator, Noah Chinn, is a Canadian who has lived in Japan and the UK, and is now back home in BC, and he gave me permission years ago to write Fuzzy Knights fanfic - with the usual proviso that I never claim Fuzzy Knights as my own creation and don't try to make money from it. Mossfoot is a green teddy bear, his girlfriend Violet is a violet teddy bear, Ben is a bunny, and Target is a black and white cat. Big People/Big Folk are humans, and most don't know that some stuffed toys are sentient.


There are many alternative ways this webcomic can go, and some of us have made our own "home-brewed" varieties. The story-within-a-story refers to one I'd intended to write several years ago for NaNoWriMo, but my notes got lost. They surfaced on Monday, in a box of stuff that's been in storage for a couple of years. I barely rescued them from being thrown out by the person who has been helping me with housekeeping and organization.

I don't ask you to judge the merits of that little vignette, since you're unfamiliar with the source material. I just wrote it so you can no longer say you haven't ever read any fanfic. :p


If you're going to write about characters and a world, yeah you should be faithful to them.
(unless the whole point of what's you're writing is to take a different spin about them, but I'd say it starts leaving the realm of fanfiction by then)
Of course being faithful to the source material is critical to writing good fanfic. It's also critical when other pro authors start up in someone else's universe, which is why the nuDune books are so awful. Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert are not faithful to the source material or characters. For that matter, they're not even faithful to known RL science. About the only Dune-themed stuff I've read that's worse than their books is the material on fanfiction.net that has Leto/Ghanima incest in it. That's obviously based on the TV miniseries, since the characters in the novel are only 9 years old, and in any case incest is considered anathema to the Fremen.

Being faithful to the source material is why Alan Dean Foster's TV tie-in books are so good. He's a pro who makes the effort to really get into the series he's been hired to write. He adapted the Star Trek Animated Series to prose form and expanded several of them to novel-length (obviously adding a lot of original material). He's also the one who ghost wrote the original Star Wars novel for George Lucas. But Foster has a rich collection of books in his own original universes, both SF and fantasy.


My own efforts to be true to the source material is why my Sliders/Handmaid's Tale fanfic is such a challenge. I've got two sets of Sliders characters to manage, one set of Handmaid's Tale characters to manage, and have to figure out a way to combine Sliders-style storytelling and dialogue with Margaret Atwood's distinctive writing style. It's a prequel to the novel/1990 movie, so at least I know how part of it has to end. The Sliders portion of it is fairly open-ended, although I've decided to kill off one of the characters I never liked.

Modern fanfiction is just a throwback to an older style of storytelling traditionally between friends and family that uses and reuses characters from a shared mythos.

It is a thing that teenage girls do for fun, so therefore it is the absolute worst according to grumpy old men. The fan writers are creative and collaborative, the old grumps debate about who has the best curation of collected official materials. But really its just different ways of enjoying an established work.
While a lot of teenage girls write fanfic, they're not the only ones. There are plenty of men who write fanfic now or who have written fanfic in the past. There's at least one I know of who is a CFC member; he contributed material to the ongoing Valjiir Continuum - a series of Star Trek Original Series stories I've been following since the 1980s. The people who originated that series began it in the late '70s, and they are now grandparents... and are still writing.
 
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Sorry, didn't notice that sentence. But it still seems to me that you're dismissing a hell of a lot of material that's available. There are literally millions of stories and poems available online, and unless what you're looking for is really niche, I find it hard to believe that you can't find at least one good story about it somewhere. My own print 'zine collection contains over 100 (probably closer to 200) volumes of fanfic and filk music. Granted, it's not all top-notch. But I'm pretty picky in what I buy, and check the information and reviews on Fanlore.org.

What are your interests, and where have you looked?

I've searched for fan fiction in the following fandoms: Star Wars, Star Trek, Mass Effect, The 100, Bioshock, Borderlands, and Dragon Age.

I've looked for these on Wattpad, Archive of Our Own, Quotev, and FanFiction. I have read a fanfic written by a friend which was decent reading but didn't really feel like a fanfic to me (the source material was at best a passing mention).

Generally speaking I'm not interested in "[Character] but different!" or weird romances that don't make any sense. Most of what I come across fit into either or both of those categories. The latest fanfic recommended to me by someone was a short story featuring General Hux and Kylo Ren from the new Star Wars trilogy. It depicted Hux as an anxious panic-ridden wreck and Kylo as some domineering type, and as you can expect it was all about how Kylo solves Hux's panic attacks through the power of sex. :rolleyes:

I'm sure there's good fan fiction out there. I personally haven't read any unless we're counting "it's fan fiction because the original author has been dead for almost a century" books.

A key problem that any sort of recommendation will come across is that I am absurdly picky over my reading material. Going through the 'free' section on Amazon has led me to 4 good books. I've probably tried at least 60 of them. That's a... bad ratio. For the past couple years I've been almost exclusively reading (licensed) Star Wars books because they've been written by the same core of writers who I mostly enjoy, but even then I've tossed a great deal of them. I think I've read around 90~ books and I started with over 240. I'll likely finish the total stock at a success rate of around 40% which is significantly better than my success rate through Amazon's free ebook service but still abysmally low.
 
I've searched for fan fiction in the following fandoms: Star Wars, Star Trek, Mass Effect, The 100, Bioshock, Borderlands, and Dragon Age.
I don't read Star Wars fanfic, and have not read much of the pro material. Splinter of the Mind's Eye was a decent story (also written by Alan Dean Foster), and so were the Han Solo books. To my recollection, the last Star Wars book I read was an anthology about the Mos Eisley cantina, edited by Kevin J. Anderson. He should have stuck to Star Wars, since he can't write Dune. I've tried some The 100 fanfic, and found it uninteresting. Other than Star Trek, I don't know what the rest of your list even is.

Star Trek is a category all by itself. Which series, which characters? TV or movies? Classic Trek, Berman-era, or nuTrek? I've found nuTrek crap miscategorized on fanfiction.net - there's a section for it, but some of it's been posted in the TOS section. It's very annoying when I expect to read a story about Uhura at Starfleet Academy and discover it's one of those stupid nuTrek ones where nuUhura and nuSpock are living together and having soapy sitcom nonsense going on.

But I've found some really good stuff on fanfiction.net, as well. There's a story about Tasha Yar's years at Starfleet Academy, and it explores her friendship with Worf, her PTSD (due to the ordeals she suffered on her home planet, Turkana IV), and her determination to succeed. It's a terrific story... for as long as it lasts. The author never finished it.

I don't read much DS9 fanfic, and most of the TOS fanfic I've ever been into has been the early stuff from the '70s. I have that in physical 'zine form, which is better than the online version since the original illustrations are part of it, along with the poetry, songs, comics, and miscellaneous content.

Voyager stories... yep, definitely a guilty pleasure, as long as it's not sappy Janeway/Chakotay romance. There's someone over at TrekBBS who has written a pretty good series of adventure stories that take place post-Endgame, in which the junior officers are the main characters. Harry and Tom work their way up the ranks in Starfleet and Tom Paris eventually gets his own command. There's a fair bit of crossover with TNG, and some of the stories involve Tom's ship dealing with Andorians, Orions, and other classic Trek aliens.

I'll grant that you're unlikely to find good Star Trek content at Archive Of Our Own. I haven't found anything there. The sites I use are fanfiction.net, Orion Press, the Valjiir Continuum website, and numerous others.

The nice thing about fanfiction.net is that there are so many shows, movies, and books that people write about, that you're apt to run across just about anything. I found a crazy crossover of Keeping Up Appearances/Murder, She Wrote. Somebody murders Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced "bouquet"), and Jessica Fletcher has to figure out whodunnit. Since hardly anyone on the show can tolerate Hyacinth for more than a few minutes at a time, the suspect list is pretty long.

The thing about fanfic is that unless the author is very, very good, you're not going to find professional-grade stories, or at least not the kind of stories that would have been shown on TV. All the Bonanza stuff I mentioned earlier would never have been on TV because it was a staple of the show that none of the Cartwright men were ever to get married. They could flirt, have an affair (as discreet as late 1950s/mid-1960s standards would allow), or become engaged. But marriage was out of the question. That's one reason why Pernell Robertson left the show; he was frustrated at how his character was in his mid-30s, still subordinate to his father, and never allowed to marry or set up his own household. The fanfic stories took care of that, giving the Cartwright sons their own households, wives, children, even grandchildren. Some even gave Ben a fourth wife, or a previously-unknown child turned up from some brief affair in one or another episode.

The point of fanfic is to have more of what you like about whichever show, movie, book, etc. you're into. The stories can be serious, romantic, adventurous, funny, tragic, some combination of those... a lot of the Voyager fanfic gets written because people don't like the way the show ended. They got to Earth, then... nothing. That was the end of the series, and although the novelverse picked up where the show left off, that's an unsatisfying direction as well. There's too much intrusive material from TNG in the Voyager novels. Therefore, I read Voyager fanfic that has minimal input from TNG characters.

Disclosure: I can't seem to write serious Star Trek fanfic to save my life. It always veers off into the direction of parody or satire. So fine. I'll write about Captain Jacquard and Bill Biker of the U.S.S. Surprise! (a parody series a friend and I started back in 1989 for our local club newsletter I edited). It's not even slightly serious, the humor is dumb, and it's cathartic since I get to mock all those pretentious, uptight Next Gen characters.

I've looked for these on Wattpad, Archive of Our Own, Quotev, and FanFiction. I have read a fanfic written by a friend which was decent reading but didn't really feel like a fanfic to me (the source material was at best a passing mention).
You've barely scratched the surface, in the case of Star Trek. There's a fanfiction subforum over at TrekBBS, and I've read some good stories there. The last one was about McCoy spending six months aboard an all-Vulcan science ship, to do research on the Fabrini medical knowledge he recovered from Yonada. It's one of these fish-out-of-water stories and a pretty decent character study that explores McCoy's tendency toward casual bigotry toward Vulcans.

Generally speaking I'm not interested in "[Character] but different!" or weird romances that don't make any sense. Most of what I come across fit into either or both of those categories. The latest fanfic recommended to me by someone was a short story featuring General Hux and Kylo Ren from the new Star Wars trilogy. It depicted Hux as an anxious panic-ridden wreck and Kylo as some domineering type, and as you can expect it was all about how Kylo solves Hux's panic attacks through the power of sex. :rolleyes:
I saw Star Wars VII, so I recognize one of those names. I have no recollection of who General Hux is.

I'm sure there's good fan fiction out there. I personally haven't read any unless we're counting "it's fan fiction because the original author has been dead for almost a century" books.
I agree with you that the "author is dead" is not a valid reason for something to be considered fanfic. I mentioned F.M. Busby's death because since both he and his wife are dead (which is sad because I met them at a convention in the late '80s and they were very nice people), neither could possibly object to what I plan to do about posting an online Hulzein Saga wiki and stories that explore the nooks and crannies of what Busby didn't write about, as well as continuing the series from the final novel (Rebel's Seed). There's so much more to that series, and I really don't understand why nobody else has tackled this. I know I'm not the only fan of that series... :(

A key problem that any sort of recommendation will come across is that I am absurdly picky over my reading material. Going through the 'free' section on Amazon has led me to 4 good books. I've probably tried at least 60 of them. That's a... bad ratio. For the past couple years I've been almost exclusively reading (licensed) Star Wars books because they've been written by the same core of writers who I mostly enjoy, but even then I've tossed a great deal of them. I think I've read around 90~ books and I started with over 240. I'll likely finish the total stock at a success rate of around 40% which is significantly better than my success rate through Amazon's free ebook service but still abysmally low.
As mentioned, you've barely scratched the surface.

If worse comes to worse... write it yourself. You're an Iron Pen veteran, and I know you can write. It takes time and a great deal of practice, but it's doable. My own first fanfic was terrible - so bad that I'm thankful that only one handwritten copy of that story ever existed, and I sincerely hope the person I gave it to has either lost it or thrown it out. But that was 38 years ago. I've improved since then.
 
If worse comes to worse... write it yourself. You're an Iron Pen veteran, and I know you can write. It takes time and a great deal of practice, but it's doable. My own first fanfic was terrible - so bad that I'm thankful that only one handwritten copy of that story ever existed, and I sincerely hope the person I gave it to has either lost it or thrown it out. But that was 38 years ago. I've improved since then.
That makes it sounds a bit like if writing fanfiction was some sort of required step.
He can just as well simply write regular fiction instead ?
 
That makes it sounds a bit like if writing fanfiction was some sort of required step.
He can just as well simply write regular fiction instead ?
What part of "people want more of (fill in the name of whatever TV show, movie, book, comic, game franchise may be applicable), so they either hope someone else has written it or they write it themselves" is too difficult a concept for you to grasp?

Are you also sticking your nose in the air over fan films? Some of the Star Trek Continues material is almost like watching the real Original Series - it's that well done.


Of course people can write original material if they choose. But some people start out with fanfic, since it's a more comfortable milieu to practice in, learning how to construct plots, learn how to write dialogue and plausible characterization, and so on. Plenty of these fanfic writers do go on to write original material, and some of those people in turn manage to get it published.

It's not an overnight thing, by any stretch. There's a thread going on at TrekBBS right now, about how to break into writing professional Star Trek fiction. It's not as easy now as it was before. One of the pro authors who posts there said it took him over 5 years before one of his novels was accepted for publication.
 
I guess I'll go outside with the kite fliers as I pretty much have no time for it. Doctor Who since 2005 has been essentially fan fiction made for TV, and it just demonstrates that even when it's handled about as professionally as can be it still has a penchant for devolving into self-referential piffle. Some of it's good, but fans of things just don't make good creators as they're too concerned with creating something that has all the tropes of the thing they already like.
 
What part of "people want more of (fill in the name of whatever TV show, movie, book, comic, game franchise may be applicable), so they either hope someone else has written it or they write it themselves" is too difficult a concept for you to grasp?
None of this sentence is too difficult for me to grasp (though your histrionic-aggressive problem is still puzzling) but I don't see where Vincour expressed his desire about "or write it himself" so from where does this "obvious" part comes from ?
Are you also sticking your nose in the air over fan films? Some of the Star Trek Continues material is almost like watching the real Original Series - it's that well done.
No idea about Star Trek, I don't follow it. I do hold my nose over fanfiction in general, though, yeah.
Of course people can write original material if they choose. But some people start out with fanfic, since it's a more comfortable milieu to practice in, learning how to construct plots, learn how to write dialogue and plausible characterization, and so on. Plenty of these fanfic writers do go on to write original material, and some of those people in turn manage to get it published.
I don't really see how fanfiction is more comfortable to start in, actually.
 
I guess I'll go outside with the kite fliers as I pretty much have no time for it. Doctor Who since 2005 has been essentially fan fiction made for TV, and it just demonstrates that even when it's handled about as professionally as can be it still has a penchant for devolving into self-referential piffle. Some of it's good, but fans of things just don't make good creators as they're too concerned with creating something that has all the tropes of the thing they already like.

I agree, but perhaps having a lady in the role will help break that mould.
 
I saw Star Wars VII, so I recognize one of those names. I have no recollection of who General Hux is.

Hux was the off-brand Grand Moff Tarkin in episode VII/episode IV pt. 2

Doctor Who since 2005 has been essentially fan fiction made for TV, and it just demonstrates that even when it's handled about as professionally as can be it still has a penchant for devolving into self-referential piffle.

A surprising amount of TV is professional fanfiction. Both Sherlock and Elementary are basically fanfics of "Sherlock & Watson in the modern world", the later even has a gender-bended Watson.

If the basic definition of fanfiction is the taking of established & published fictional materials and reformating them to create a new story that fulfills the wishes and fantasies of the new writer, then you can make a heck of a list of movies and tv that fit the bill.
 
Taking inspiration is not fanfiction and it's a basic enough difference I can safely take for granted you're totally aware of it and are just being contrarian.

Wagner's Ring isn't "taking inspiration" though. It's a literal retelling of das Nibelunglied, to which he inserted some other characters from a different text he had a hard-on for. In fanfiction terms it'd be like writing a fic in which Harry and the gang land in Middle Earth and go to Rivendell and agree to use their magical powers to aid the Fellowship.

If the basic definition of fanfiction is the taking of established & published fictional materials and reformating them to create a new story that fulfills the wishes and fantasies of the new writer, then you can make a heck of a list of movies and tv that fit the bill.

If you want to expand that out and apply it to real-life personalities, then alt-hists, historical fiction, and allegorical fiction can be seen as fanfics as well.

What is Cornwell's Saxon Tales but a fanfiction wish-fulfillment fantasy in which Cornwell's semi-historical ancestor is a badass who literally saves England multiple times through his badassery
 
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If you want to expand that out and apply it to real-life personalities, then alt-hists, historical fiction, and allegorical fiction can be seen as fanfics as well.

What is Cornwell's Saxon Tales but a fanfiction fantasy in which Cornwell's semi-historical ancestor is a badass who literally saves England multiple times through his badassery

That brings up a good question. Is historical fiction also fanfiction?

Take the Outlander series for example (which I haven't read tbh but both my sisters love). It seems to use the historical superstructure of the 45 Rebellion and filters it through the lens of Sir Walter Scott's heavily romanticized Scottish culture to add a sense of weight and authority to what really amounts to a modern day Dime Store romance novel. Many of the supporting characters are real, but rewritten in ways that fits the authors needs.

Reading this thread, it really seems to me that the difference between screenwriting and fanfiction seems to be an arbitrary line of quality and ownership.
 
Wagner's Ring isn't "taking inspiration" though. It's a literal retelling of das Nibelunglied, to which he inserted some other characters from a different text he had a hard-on for. In fanfiction terms it'd be like writing a fic in which Harry and the gang land in Middle Earth and go to Rivendell and agree to use their magical powers to aid the Fellowship.
Well, and is it any good as a book and story ?
(because I'm not sure if it's the main point of watching an opera)
 
Well, and is it any good as a book and story ?
(because I'm not sure if it's the main point of watching an opera)

But now you're making an argument of quality, rather than an argument of kind.

Plus the libretto for der Ring is every bit as good and essential as the music is.
 
But now you're making an argument of quality, rather than an argument of kind.
It's more about different aspects of the subject.
Inspiration is not fanfiction, so trying to list "someone did a book which is tengentially related to X" is pointless.
If the written part of the work is not the main point, then claiming it's fanfiction is also pretty pointless - someone making
Also, as I already pointed, if it's a personal retelling of another story (that is, when you deliberately alter the setting and the characters and the plot so you can tell something personal), it's not fanfiction either.

I don't really see the point trying to claim that things are fanfiction when they obviously aren't.
Plus the libretto for der Ring is every bit as good and essential as the music is.
No idea. I never listened/saw it, I don't plan to learn whatever the language is to understand it, and I'm not really interested in operas as a whole. And even if I were, I can't understand most of what they say even in French, so I'm not going to try in something else.
 
It's more about different aspects of the subject.
Inspiration is not fanfiction, so trying to list "someone did a book which is tengentially related to X" is pointless.
If the written part of the work is not the main point, then claiming it's fanfiction is also pretty pointless - someone making
Also, as I already pointed, if it's a personal retelling of another story (that is, when you deliberately alter the setting and the characters and the plot so you can tell something personal), it's not fanfiction either.

I don't really see the point trying to claim that things are fanfiction when they obviously aren't.

I don't even know what on earth your definition of fanfiction is at this point.

So let's go back to square 1. This is wikipedia's opening definition of fanfiction:

Fan fiction or fanfiction (also abbreviated to fan fic, fanfic or fic) is fiction about characters or settings from an original work of fiction, created by fans of that work rather than by its creator. It is a popular form of fan labor, particularly since the advent of the Internet.

Here's OED's draft definition from 2004:
fan fiction n. fiction, usually fantasy or science fiction, written by a fan rather than a professional author, esp. that based on already-existing characters from a television series, book, film, etc.; (also) a piece of such writing.

Here's Merriam Webster's definition:
stories involving popular fictional characters that are written by fans and often posted on the Internet —called also fanfic \-ˈfik\

And here's wiktionary's:
Amateur fiction created by fans, incorporating the characters and concepts of a commercial media property, typically without permission from the author or owner.

So we see 3 common criteria in all of these definitions:
It is 1) a piece of fiction that 2) employs characters/locations/concepts from already-existent works of art and 3) is written by someone who is a fan of the work, rather than the original author.

Is that the definition you are using? Because from where I'm standing, Der Ring des Nibelungen, Grendel, The Aeneid, and Paradise Lost all seem to fit that definition quite remarkably well.


No idea. I never listened/saw it, I don't plan to learn whatever the language is to understand it, and I'm not really interested in operas as a whole. And even if I were, I can't understand most of what they say even in French, so I'm not going to try in something else.

Wagner is pretty notable for being a composer who wrote both the music and the libretti for his operas himself. He's famous for the way he wove music, words, staging, and story into a singular artistic whole. More than pretty much any other composer, neither his music nor his plot can really be experienced to in isolation while still achieving full appreciation of the work.

You should. It's really really good. A dwarf steals some gold from three ladies and, been spurned in love, uses his bitterness to craft the gold into a master ring which he can use to bend servants to his will and dominate all life. He also makes a helmet that can make him invisible. So...yeah, pretty influential to the fantasy genre. Also introduced the concept of the leitmotif, which is employed pretty heavily in modern day film scoring, most notably in the Lord of the Rings movies.
 
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