Farmers can no longer buy John Deere tractors.

[thecrazyscot]

Tesla, perhaps?

 

[Zelig]

Cool. Tell me which car company you are predicting as the altruistic holdout that doesn't protect their software.

While we're at it, can you explain why in the world any of them would even consider that as a course of action?

I don't need to predict a specific car company as a holdout. Holding out isn't altruistic, it's done for market reasons. Linux devs didn't "hold out" on protecting the Linux kernel, and now it's running on the majority of personal computing devices. Microsoft has dramatically dropped prices and increased openness since facing legitimate competition from more open alternatives.

As someone who works in the automotive service industry where we roll our own software to interface with cars, there's significant disincentive for us to purchase fleets of vehicles that we aren't able to work with.

Tesla, perhaps?

Probably most likely, they've already open sourced all of their patents.

 

[Cutlass]

I don't need to predict a specific car company as a holdout. Holding out isn't altruistic, it's done for market reasons. Linux devs didn't "hold out" on protecting the Linux kernel, and now it's running on the majority of personal computing devices. Microsoft has dramatically dropped prices and increased openness since facing legitimate competition from more open alternatives.

As someone who works in the automotive service industry where we roll our own software to interface with cars, there's significant disincentive for us to purchase fleets of vehicles that we aren't able to work with.



Probably most likely, they've already open sourced all of their patents.

GM, Ford, And Others Want to Make Working on Your Own Car Illegal
Posted on 22 April 2015 by Jeff Perez

One of the inherent rights of owning a vehicle is the ability to get on one’s backside — a wrench in one hand and a grease rag in the other, and just tinker to your little heart’s desire. Since the vehicle was invented, it’s been an important facet within the community of gearheads.

General Motors — the same company responsible for 87 deaths related to faulty ignition switches, FYI — wants to take that right away from you citing safety and security issues. Along with a few other big names.

It’s called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). It’s been around since 2000 and started as anti-Internet piracy legislation. But automakers want to use it to try and make working on your own car illegal. Yes, illegal. The general premise is that unlike cars of the past, today’s vehicles are so advanced and use such a large amount of software and coding in their general makeup, altering said code could be dangerous and possibly even malicious.

Listing the vehicle as a “mobile computing device,” the law would hypothetically protect automakers from pesky owners looking to alter any sort of technology in the vehicle that relates to the onboard computer. Flashing your ECU would be a big no no, which could also lead to all sorts of problems for aftermarket shops.

What GM, and even tractor companies like John Deere, argues is that you, as an owner, don’t actually own your car. Rather, you’re sort of just borrowing it for an extended amount of time and paying for the rights to use the technology. If it sounds ridiculous— it is. But it gets even more ludicrous.

According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, John Deere argued that “letting people modify car computer systems will result in them pirating music through the on-board entertainment system.”

That’s right— pirating music. Through a tractor.

DMCA does give a little bit of leeway, though. While the act could hypothetically lock customers out of key safety features, it would still allow owners the ability to repair other areas of the vehicle’s onboard computer as they see fit. It’s a slim compromise, but one that may be more closely based in reality.

As it currently sits, there are 13 (!) large automakers on the list supporting the DMCA. Want to know who they are? Of course you do:

General Motors Company
BMW Group
FCA US LLC
Ford Motor Company
Jaguar Land Rover
Mazda
Mercedes-Benz USA
Mitsubishi Motors
Porsche
Toyota
Volkswagen Group of America
Volvo Cars North America

Ironically, one of the brands that relies most on technology in its vehicles — Tesla Motors — in not in support of DMCA. While other American companies like GM, Ford and Chrysler all agree that working on your own vehicle should be punishable by law.

Funny how three brands that pride themselves on American ingenuity don’t want customers to work on their cars.

http://news.boldride.com/2015/04/gm-wants-to-make-working-on-your-own-car-illegal/76702/

 

[gay_Aleks]

Dear Farm Boy, I have a question for you: do you pirate music off your tractor?

 

[Farm Boy]

One is cabless. One has no input for media, just a radio. One has an 8-track player.

 

[Zelig]

GM, Ford, And Others Want to Make Working on Your Own Car Illegal
Posted on 22 April 2015 by Jeff Perez



http://news.boldride.com/2015/04/gm-wants-to-make-working-on-your-own-car-illegal/76702/

Good thing there are lots of other car companies, and the DMCA isn't actually applicable in most of the world.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't need to predict a specific car company as a holdout. Holding out isn't altruistic, it's done for market reasons. Linux devs didn't "hold out" on protecting the Linux kernel, and now it's running on the majority of personal computing devices. Microsoft has dramatically dropped prices and increased openness since facing legitimate competition from more open alternatives.

As someone who works in the automotive service industry where we roll our own software to interface with cars, there's significant disincentive for us to purchase fleets of vehicles that we aren't able to work with.

You're buying fleets of cars. You will get a customized license. Limo manufacturers have been negotiating agreements to sell "Lincoln" and "Cadillac" limos when they bulk purchase the base vehicles for decades. That's not going to change just because your company wants to alter software instead of structure. So your company will not exert any influence at all over the basic EULA.

As to 'consumer choice'...I was a car salesman for a long time, and sold hundreds of cars. I cannot point back to a single sale that I think a competitor advertising "we have a friendlier EULA" would have pried away from me. Good luck on that being a valid 'market reason'.

 

[Zelig]

As to 'consumer choice'...I was a car salesman for a long time, and sold hundreds of cars. I cannot point back to a single sale that I think a competitor advertising "we have a friendlier EULA" would have pried away from me. Good luck on that being a valid 'market reason'.

If nobody cares, what's the problem?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If nobody cares, what's the problem?

Who said nobody cares?

People cared about Microsoft's monopolization of the market, but it wasn't market forces that broke it up, because market forces produce monopolization, they don't oppose it.

People care about the restrictions the auto cartel can and will impose. They will violate those restrictions and suffer for it. But the only thing that will change it is anti-trust actions, not market forces. The sooner we cut to the chase and start demanding those actions the better, because waiting for market forces to do what they don't and never will is a waste of time.

 

[Zelig]

Who said nobody cares?

You just said nobody cared enough to change their purchase decisions.

People cared about Microsoft's monopolization of the market, but it wasn't market forces that broke it up

Yes it was.

You think the EU browser ballot and Windows N Editions actually did anything?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes it was.

You think the EU browser ballot and Windows N Editions actually did anything?

No, I think the federal anti-trust lawsuit leading to an order to break up Microsoft got their attention. Finding a way to settle during the appeal was a lifesaving dodge, but the process certainly had the desired effect of severely modifying their behavior.

 

[IglooDame]

Dear Farm Boy, I have a question for you: do you pirate music off your tractor?

One is cabless. One has no input for media, just a radio. One has an 8-track player.

So to summarize your answer: "yes, given the opportunity", eh?

 

[Farm Boy]

Naw. There are plenty of stations for the two with cabs. Headphones under soundmuffs gives me a headache on the opencab. Plus, music stops holding attention after several hours, the drone of horsepower interferes with fidelity of sound. The real sweet find is a broadcast baseball game on an AM station. That will hold your attention at the right level for several hours on its own. NPR articles are good too, but their cycle during weekdays is designed around commutes, so the loop is frustratingly short.

 

[JollyRoger]

I figured you might have this on an endless loop:


Link to video.

 

[LucyDuke]

It means that like modern cars, they don't run without electronics. And those electronics don't run without software.

No it doesn't. What you just said means what you just said. That crap they said didn't make any goddamn sense.

 

[Cutlass]

No it doesn't. What you just said means what you just said. That crap they said didn't make any goddamn sense.

I can't help it if they're not good writers.

 

[Farm Boy]

Eh, Earl Butz. Grain embargos, plant fencerow to fencerow.

I'll skip the song.