Fascist Patch for Civ3

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Well I went to the site to see what all the upset was about and I have to say that they were very good about warning people ahead of time. If you wound up feeling sick Starfox why didn't you just opt out of going in at the warning screen?
History is history and if we choose to ignore some aspects of it now even in gameplay future generations will have even less of a grasp on what went on than we do.
 
Oh no! Someone is trying to express themselves freely on the internet...we had better stop them...

I hate it when people complain about something and use their preferences as a means to censor other people. Fascism is a government just like Democracy and Communism and there's truly no reason for it to be absent from the game. If you disagree so strongly with this form of government, by all means DONT download the patch. But stop complaining about someone excercising their freedom of expression. Who cares if the person that created this patch is a Fascist or not? Disagree with him/her all you want. The internet is one of the last places where freedom exists (although not in a pure form), please don't try to apply your narrow minded censorship to it like has been applied to so many other forms of media.

On a side note, I'd really like to see someone add a Libertarian government to the game. I think that would rock. The most amazing part of this last statement Ive made is the fact that so many of you probably have no clue as to what Libertarianism is all about. This is why you comprise the "mindless masses".

It seems like whenever I think people are truly ready for freedom and true tolerance of others' ideas (no matter how "disagreeable"), something like this happens and I come to realize that people are more narrow than I thought. Open mindedness doesn't mean you tolerate only the most "politically correct" things, it means you tolerate everything. I urge you all to have an open mind about this and everything else. Another person's freedom of expression won't hurt you unless you let it.
 
I think almost all the posts about Fascism have missed an important point: it failed historically. It failed quickly (within 12 years) and in addiion to destroying millions of people, it subjected its most prominent supporters to ridicule for most, if not all, of history since its demise.

For better or for worse, fundamentalism has proven more effective.
 
First of all I like the modpack, particularly when modifed, but...

I think there's another way to handle Fascist governments, without creating a new Government.

Mobilizing a Republic gives you significantly higher military production, less culture, less non-military production. A mobilized economy happens when you take a capitalist economy and temporarily divert all production to the State's warmongering purposes. Furthermore, mobilizing makes you act in a warlike and aggressive way 'cos you have to declar war on someone.

ISTM that since Fascist/Nazi governments only existed for relatively brief periods of time, always went to war, and did a huge amount of militayr production at the expense of culture:

Germany: 1933-45 invaded Poland etc
Italy: 1922-43 tried to invade France, Yugoslavia, Abyssinia
some E. European countries in late 30s/early40s
Spain: Considerably longer but considerably less 'fascist'; didn't invade anyone.
Japan: Difficulties applying the Fascist concept here, but only extreme-nationalist in the period 1930-1945; invaded Korea, Manchuria pre-Pearl Harbour then most of Asia.

The short duration and huge military focus of these countries means that they can be modelled in Civ3 by Republics, mobilizing for war in peacetime...

What does anyone else think?
 
Hmm...Libertarianism. I might be able to work on a mod for that, I just need to think up how it would operate in-game.
 
Originally posted by Gareeth
If you wound up feeling sick Starfox why didn't you just opt out of going in at the warning screen?

Because I wasnt given the choice. The link has been changed so now it directs to the homepage, instead of directly to the core of the web site as it was when the admin posted the info.

Just wanted to say that I was simply expressing my mind when I posted my thoughts. I wasnt trying to tell you guys what to do as some seemed to believe.

PS: thanks to the people who advised me not to download or use the pack! I really hadn't thought of that! ;)
 
"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Certainly, this was an ugly time in world history, but so was Roman persecution of Christians, and Stalins repressions, and the Crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem witch trials, etc. Maybe we should remove Rome, and Russia, and England, etc from the game?

I think the author does a pretty good job of validating his thougts on the opening page of his site. If you didn't want to be offended, as per his warning, why did you look at it?
 
Thanks Kino for the alternate patch... I havent had time to test it but it looks like it will be much better balanced. The original looked way out of whack.

as for my 2cents, facism has been a major type of goverment in the 1900's where most of the action in civ/civ2/civ3 takes place, the game almost slows to a crawl at that point, so although historicly facism may not have had such a impact as democracy/republic/monarcy type goverments it has has a signifigant impact on this century and i see no reason why it should be left out... the original patch does seem to be lopsided almost to the point of cheating (ie it would be silly not to be facist) and in the real world there are many many reasons why a modern goverment would not choose facism. i also think that facist goverments should loose respect internationaly and most govt types excludeing despotisms/monarchys should have some type of diplomatic penalty (more penalty for democracy, a little less for republic, less agian for comminism... (depending on personal freedom and civilian influence in goverment.) what does anyone think of that?

next362"
 
Okay... it's me... the guy behind the Fascist Patch.

I was quite surprised to see everyone get so worked up over a game and debate things that were clearly stated at the Fascist Patch website... somehow, somepeople just want to hate and censor everyone else to what THEY think is right and wrong. Wow, what an attitude. Well I guess we should all be happy that we have people who are willing to judge what other people should and shouldn't view or use.

Remember this... the Fascist Patch doesn't mean YOU have to play as a Fascist... maybe it's there to FIGHT Fascist AI of the computer.

Anyways, forget the debate which has nothing to do with the GAME... let's talk about the GAME, and why I did it!

Philosophy behind the Fascist Patch.

First off, is the obvious question... why Fascism? To answer your first thought... no, I'm not a Fascist, nor do I think it's "cool" or any such thing, I just can't stand political correctness, especially when it attempts to alter or ignore history, and especially when it comes at the cost of minimalizing the impact Fascism had on the 20th Century. Regardless of its succes or failure, or it's time on earth Fascism had a TREMENDOUS impact on the 20th Century whose ramifications simply can not be ignored for politicall correctness. Yet somehow it's okay to include Communism, which was responsible for nearly 30 million dead this century. I guess as long as it was mostly Russians who died, it's okay to include Communism in Civ2 and Civ3???

In a nutshell, the purpose of the Fascist Patch is to add a BALANCED VIABLE THIRD OPTION of government to the late-game of Civ2/Civ3. First and foremost it seeks balance, secondly, if possible, it seeks accuracy. Obviously a Fascist Regime can have many drawbacks, but for gameplay, keeping it balanced BETWEEN Communism and Democracy is the MAIN goal. Most of what I state concerns Civ3, but can often be applied to Civ2 as well (at least the goal of a third government for late games).

It's been stated before, nobody uses Republic late in the game. There is a reason for this... because anyone who uses Republic tends to switch to either Democracy or Communist late in the game.

Why do they switch? Why does nobody use Republic late in the game?

Because the corruption of Republic is simply awful and nobody chooses it over the lower corruption of Democracy or Communism.

If you stop and think for a minute, how I rated Fascism is simply a Republic with no war weariness and free units, but it still has the awful corruption of Republic.

Fascism is CLEARLY superior to Republic... it's supposed to be, because nobody uses Republic late in the game. Don't think of Fascism being superior to a Republic in regards to a modern 20th century republic, but rather think of Fascism being superior to something more akin to the Ancient Roman Republic (which was rife with corruption itself). After all, in game terms, nobody uses republic in the late game because it "seems" like an "ancient" government in it's usefullness, so I have no qualms about making Fascism better than a Republic.

What it is NOT clearly superior to is Democracy (which will kick a Fascist Government in the ass with research and commerce), or Communism, which has a lower and better balanced corruption rate than Fascism.

Fascism seeks a middle ground between the high science and monies of a Democracy, and the all-out-war status of a Communist regime. Fascism lies in the murky ground somewhere in-between, as Fascism has always had a strange place between free market and totalitarian power. Both in Civ2 and in Civ3, Fascism is a Jack-of-many-trades, but master of none. It is decent in science and taxes, better than Communism, but not as good as a Democracy? it is better at war than Democracy, but not as good as Communism.

As stated above there are disadvantages...

CORRUPTION, CORRUPTION, CORRUPTION

The biggest one is the corruption which is obviously bigger than either Communism or Democracy, plus because Fascism comes late in the game, it sucks even worse if you're a large empire (which most people are late in the game) since corruption is awful on the fringes of your empire... neither Communism or Democracy have to deal with this.

Bottom line, the only advantage Fascism has over Communism is the trade bonus, and NOTHING ELSE. Communism on the other hand, is much better at being a large empire and dealing with corruption. Communism?s level of corruption in Civ3 is BOTH lower AND spread out better than Fascism.

The Democracy is a tougher call, but is clearly a better choice than Fascism for some... people say the "war weariness" is great for Fascism vs Democracy... well, maybe to a warmonger it is, but if you're shooting for culture or other peaceful endeavors what good is war weariness to you? Furthermore with less corruption (far less), A Democracy can outresearch a fascist government, so clearly, for the peaceful player (or even a defensive wartime player), Democracy is a better choice than Fascism.

Nazi Germany was NEVER geared towards a major war effort... in fact, every plan the Germans had regarding war was the minimalist approach. Blitzkrieg warfare by it's very nature is designed to be short decisive wars with minimal economic impact at home. The Nazis lost partly-in-fact because the war with Communist Russia dragged on... the Communists successfully adjusted the economy, while the Nazis handled theirs poorly during the war.

Scientifically, though Nazi Germany suffered corruption and redundant programs, they still had great scientific success, something the Communists never (or at least rarely) had. Not to say that the Nazis had a better science drive than American Democracy, but it was CERTAINLY better than the Soviets!

Overall, if you look at what I did, is that I placed Fascism IN-BETWEEN Communism and Democracy in it's effectiveness for wartime and peace... a whole I think Fascism fills in nicely.

Communism under the Fascist Patch also gets a further boost of free units? double that of Fascism, so there is BALANCE here with the patch.

As for one other tidbit... a Fascist Government hurries production with slave labor, ergo killing off it's own population... something a Democracy (or even Republic) doesn't do!

Yes, Virginia, Fascism has plenty of downsides.
 
Originally posted by bob92


I was just about to make this very point. Stalin and Pol Pot killed MANY more people than Hitler did. Where is the objection to having Communism in the game?

The Romans used to invade foreign cities and kill or enslave every man, woman, and child in the city. Whoops, so much for Democracy and Republic...

And Dictators around the world have been slaughtering and torturing people for thousands of years. Yet every player is REQUIRED to adopt Despotism for the first couple of thousand years! The horror!

Some of you people need a serious reality check. It's a game. If you think the patch will increase your enjoyment of the game, then install it. If not, don't.

As for those of you who want to censor all mention of the patch from this board so that others won't be able to find out about it--perhaps you have more in common with the fascists than you'd like to admit. :p

Hurray Hurray !!!!!! You said it.

Because I find this whole discusion a load of BULL !!!!!!

Like somebody earlier told before ITS A FREAKING GAME !!!!!!
 
Originally posted by Uteno
Heh.. thats exactly the way I felt as I was mentally composing a solution. And then I thought, 'wait, what were the military innovations of the fascists?' What comes to mind are jets. And they weren't even half decent jets... they were jet prototypes.

Really, the fascist govs didn't make any science at all... they concentrated on military, true, but think about the stuff they were looking at. Really big mirrors, endothermic reactions, sound guns, gigantic cannons... impracticle and useless. All their scientists left, the remainders were stupid....

Jets? That's it? not "even half decent jets"? The Me262 aircraft was a superior aircraft design than America's 1st *AND* 2nd jet designs. Not until the F-86 did an American design compare to the Me262. Furthermore, German designers were researching much more interesting aircraft up until the end of the war. Ever heard of the Go-229? It was a flying wing concept that was in production, but never saw service. Next time an aircraft like it was put into production? Only the lowly, and half-decent B-2 Bomber. The research into Rocket-based aircraft helped form the basis for our X-1/X-15 aircraft designed to test speed limitations on airplanes.

And, all of the smart scientists were chased off. Which is exactly why one of the biggest reasons the West and the East raced to capture Germany's research sites was to import these stupid scientists back into the country for the upcoming Cold War. Werner Von Braun, the man without which, putting a person on the moon would not have been accomplished yet, let alone our advancement into un-manned rockets for launching of Nuclear warheads on ICBMs (but also for launch of satellites into orbit) was most definitely an idiot.

There's a reason why Germany was able to mobilise from the lack of a military in 1932, when Hitler took power, to a military that the entire world feared in 1939, and it wasn't because fascism is such an industry and research stifling form of government. The reason Germany was so successful throughout 1942? They had the most advanced, mechanized, and coordinated land force on the planet, and it showed. Part of this is because they built their military from scratch, leading to a more modernized military. But they still built it very quickly. A big reason for the slowdown in production later in the war was caused by the heavy use of slave labor, and the eventual break-down of this form of labor-force for extended periods of time. But production-wise, the German war machine was quite amazing: for instance, contrary to what might've been expected, the production of war-products actually increased throughout much of the Allied Strategic Bombing campaign.

Culturally, while uniformism is stressed in a fascist society, it is no less culturally suppressive than a communist regime. The tenents of Communism, in fact, would rather you believe in no religion at all.

I've got to think that such a hub-bub about a Fascism government addition is odd, especially seeing as how the Free Western World, just a decade ago, finally ended it's struggle with the Communist Bloc, yet Communism has always been included as a government type. I've got to wonder, since Despotism is already included, if the Fascist-style governments of the mid-20th century had been lumped under the Dictatorship/Despotic form, and all was assumed well. But obviously, a modern-Fascist form of government requires a more complicated implementation.

The difference between these two, when examining them for implementation in the game, is that Fascism, and in particular, Nazi Germany's implementation of Fascism, carries with it much more emotional baggage, because of the Holocaust, and Nazi Germany being the most visible implementation. Obviously the author was intending to model the in-game version of this government after Germany's implementation as opposed to Italy's or Japan's, for instance, because of the graphics he has used. But as with most WW2 wargames, the issue of the holocaust is completely ignored, not to degrade it's significance historically, Civ2's implementation also ignored it. With Civ3, the subject is a bit stickier, because of the addition of Cultural significance and National identity. Perhaps a Nationalism patch should be included, because, well, WW1 was wrought by the advent of Nationalism and a Nationalistic turn of governments (even though officially still Monarchys). The pre-WW2 outbreak of Fascism is really just a radically motivated/twisted continuation of this trend.

I've seen the website, and I don't really agree with the layout of the site, but regardless of the motivation of creating the patch, it really surprised me that the government type was not included in Civ3-standard. Perhaps it was because Sid wanted to return to the standard governments from Civ1 after failing to implement a new govt in Fundamentalism effectively... but whatever the reason, the addition is welcome to my game, not for the sole purpose of "hunting those evil Nazi's," but for a bit more historic accuracy, and more diversity. A game where you're supposed to create the civilization and build it as you like, the more options at your disposal, the better.

Anyway, I read through this thread, and wanted to add in my 2 cents on what I was reading.
 
I think Giorgicus said it best.

That site is disgusting.

That said, I don't have a problem with there being a fascist govt/patch. As mentioned above, there are many concepts in the game that mirror real life evils and horrors.

The game may as well have THE MOST evil historical governmental incarnation. Cuz that's what fascism is.

Evil. Just by what it represents, fascism is the bane of freedom and good.

Anyone that disagrees with that, or says 'but hitler did some good things. he built roads and stuff' is also probably quite evil, whether they realize it or not.

But I can't wait to play it......

One note: Fascism was a complete failure as a form of government. Why can be debated, but the fact is they got their @$$es gloriously whooped 60 years ago.

Gloriously whooped!!!!

And with or without Werner, we'd be on the moon by now. He played the biggest role at the time, but come on....
 
IMHO Fascism is not a government type, but a political idealogy. The actual government imployed in germany could be honestly portrayed by despotism, after all Hitler was a despot.

All the mechanics of the game accurately portray the history of the period, killing population points to rush build stuff etc., lack of war weariness, support for units . . . .

I don't think I will load this patch because I believe that it offers an imbalance, making a repulsive form of government more beneficial than it was. This is not furthering history, it is skewing it.

Despotism was introduced late in Hitler's rise to power. The more beneficial aspects of his party's rule were gleaned earlier under a government type that could be better described as democratic or republican.

Just my opinion.
 
If you don't like it, don't download it and don't look and covtemplate it. A big part of the Internet is being able to publish whatever you want and express your own views. What many of you are suggesting is censorship of the Internet and I don't like it. Well anyway keep on civing.
 
it represents history accurately and to those asking questions about Fascism being an ideology and not a government type, then what is democracy?

i will not get into these arguments on these boards other than to say this is a game that strives to represent the world, and history, as accurately as possible. If communism is a governement then fascism should be as well.

if you are offended by the accuracy of history, don't install this mod

...and why are you reading this anyway!
 
this thread is out of control!

so to add to the madness, here's my interpretation of what fascism should be in the game. (no consideration given to balance I'm afraid)

and I will stick with what can actually be altered in the rules.

prereq: nationalism
-this is basis of fascism, everybody interpreted the new idea of popular rule differently, this is the least liberal interpretation.

free units: 10 per metro,
-to reflect the increased conscription.

worker rate: 3
-democracy's rate because fascism worked people to death basically, and their heavy use of rail

assimilation chance: 4
-democracy's rate because cities are tightly controlled by police and propaganda

military police limit: 5
- 1+ communism's rate to reflect the military police's enormous effect on the minds of the populace.

draft limit: 3 or maybe 4
-fascist germany relied very heavily on conscription to battle numerically superior enemies, and at the end of the war, germany and the other countries it conscripted from were enormously drained of men, but so was russia which is why I tend towards 3, communism's rate.

hurrying production: forced labor
-as I said, fascists tended to basically enslave people

war weariness: none
-I really thought about changing this to low, its a myth that germany/italy never tired of the war. they tired of it pretty quickly, but since no one was allowed to dissent, I put it at none.

diplomats: elite
-this is to reflect germany's fantastic pre-war military buildup that was wildly illegal according to the no-military treaties germany signed after WWI.

spies: regular
-german spies were pretty good at concealing their war crimes, and propaganda in the US, and finding internal enemies, but they severely lost the code war, so I won't make them veteran.

immune to: investigate city, propaganda (i don't know if you can pick 2)
-they did keep their death camps secret, and they were highly effective with their own propaganda

standard trade bonus: on
-like it or not, fascism when not at war was extremely profitable. above threads act like germany wasn't fascist before WWII, but they were.

Ruler titles: duce, fuhrer, I forget the spanish one
-reply to above: Japan was not a fascist state.

I'd put corruption at nuisance, but I'm not sure what corruption really represents, other than a stupid hack fix for a flawed engine.


I think this is an imbalanced modification to the game, because this would be the best government. However this is due to game flaws, but I would put fascism on par with democracy and communism, at least for short periods of time. We've never really seen a fascist government go on for a long period of time.

my information comes mainly from an excellent couple of books called the rise and fall of the third reich, I highly recommend it.

as to whether fascism is inherently evil, I'd say yes, but only because I believe in freedom. I would say that monarchy/despotism/communism are all evil too. However that is me speaking as a citizen, if I could, I would be a fascist leader, because I think that would be the most fun.
 
I guess the stock responses to anyone who questions the motives and/or playability of this patch fall into two predictably reactionary categories: (1) don't play or read it if you don't like it, and (2) how dare you advocate censorship on the internet.

Well, the reason why we are reading this thread is because we are engaging in a free and open discussion of ideas. I hope nobody has a problem with that.

And I am also not going to simply look the other way while others pervert history. I will always speak up when it comes to discussing matters of historical accuracy, especially regarding fascism and totalitarianism. As Justice Brandeis once said, "a little sunlight is the best disinfectant."

Respectfully,
Georgicus
 
>this thread is out of control!

>so to add to the madness, here's my interpretation of what
>fascism should be in the game. (no consideration given to
>balance I'm afraid)

And then will be my own opinion on your interpretation :)


>and I will stick with what can actually be altered in the rules.

>prereq: nationalism
>-this is basis of fascism, everybody interpreted the new idea of
>popular rule differently, this is the least liberal interpretation.

Agree. The most known fascisms relied heavily on the supposed superiority of their nation (and race) to justify a right to rule over others.

>free units: 10 per metro,
>-to reflect the increased conscription.

Acceptable.
Fascism is directed toward control, police and army. It's build for it. So ok.

>worker rate: 3
>-democracy's rate because fascism worked people to death
>basically, and their heavy use of rail

Here I don't agree. It's true that a lot of people under fascism worked harder due to propaganda, forced labor, and police, but there were also big resistances with sabotages, spying and the like due to rebellious people, hard pressed by the inhuman vision of the society. Moreover, the constant police control kill initiative, creativity and the like. So I would stick with the worker rate of 2.


>assimilation chance: 4
>-democracy's rate because cities are tightly controlled by police
>and propaganda

Well, time to end the joke. Assimilation in fascism ? What a joke ! Fascism is all about national glory and racial superiority. The very idea of assimilation would frighten even more the fascists than the people being assimilated ; whose people who would not be eager to be assimilated by such a government that consider them as inferiors.
Look at history : Germany did not assimilate anyone but the Sudetes. Even the Dutch and Alsacians, who were considered as Germans by Hitler and had a common culture with Germany resisted assimilation.
Japan invaded China and Korea, and slaughtered civilian, never even wanting to hear about considering PEOPLE as part of their empire.

Assimilation chance : 0 or 1. But I think 0 is more representative.

>military police limit: 5
>- 1+ communism's rate to reflect the military police's enormous
>effect on the minds of the populace.

The police in fascism was frightening. Everyone feared the dreaded Gestapo. So it would be acceptable to have a 5 police limit.
Though, more people resisted to the tyranny. So I would say, stay with the same police limit as communism.

>draft limit: 3 or maybe 4
>-fascist germany relied very heavily on conscription to battle
>numerically superior enemies, and at the end of the war,
>germany and the other countries it conscripted from were
>enormously drained of men, but so was russia which is why I
>tend towards 3, communism's rate.

The armies of Nazi Germany and Japan in WW2 recruited almost anyone they could, especially in the battle in Berlin, where women, teenagers and 60 years men fought.
So it's very logical. Agree.

>hurrying production: forced labor
>-as I said, fascists tended to basically enslave people

Agree too. Germany killed thousands Russians with forced labor. Most of the death camp were aimed to "kill through labor".
Hurrying production by forced labor is nearly a sine qua non for fascism.

>war weariness: none
>-I really thought about changing this to low, its a myth that
>germany/italy never tired of the war. they tired of it pretty
>quickly, but since no one was allowed to dissent, I put it at
>none.

If a government is able to be constantly in war, it's the fascism. Nearly designed for. Putting war weariness is definitely a no-no.

>diplomats: elite
>-this is to reflect germany's fantastic pre-war military buildup
>that was wildly illegal according to the no-military treaties
>germany signed after WWI.

Disagree. Germany could do this because the Europe was living with the dread memory of the WW1, and public opinions wanted the peace whatever the cost. In fact, diplomats in fascism are nothing big enough to talk about. A fascism is toward either ignoring the rest of the world and concentrate onto internal stability (Argentina, Spain under Franco, Greece under "the colonels") and thus, does not have much use of diplomatic ways, either is agressive towards the foreigners and don't use a lot diplomacy (Argentina about the UK isles i.e. , Japan, Italy). So the diplomat should be weaker if any change should be made.
Diplomat : either normal or, if possible, weakened.

>spies: regular
>-german spies were pretty good at concealing their war crimes,
>and propaganda in the US, and finding internal enemies, but
>they severely lost the code war, so I won't make them veteran.

Germans did not discovered anything about the radars during the Battle of England, they did not succeed in jamming the US atomic research, while at the same time a number of covert missions of Allied were successfully driven in Germany. Italy has never anything close to a performant secret service during the WW2. Japanese handled it better, but they could not find the secret codes of USA, while USA could at least partially decode theirs.
All in all, never any fascim has impressive spies.

So Spies : normal, and if possible weakened.

>immune to: investigate city, propaganda (i don't know if you can
>pick 2)
>-they did keep their death camps secret, and they were highly
>effective with their own propaganda

Immune to propaganda is acceptable. The politic police would not allow anyone to make any propaganda except the official one. Thus, investigate city don't seem to me very realistic.
So I would say that fascism should be resistant/immune to propaganda, but that's all.

>standard trade bonus: on
>-like it or not, fascism when not at war was extremely profitable.
>above threads act like germany wasn't fascist before WWII, but >they were.

Fascism is, like it was previously said, in acquaintance with free market. Thus it should gain the trade bonus.
BUT, many of the ressources of a fascism government is headed toward police and the army to sustain the high control it requires.
So I would say that one nullify the other, and that the benefit from trade bonus is showed in the extra unit support, and the ability to do more police and more draft.

>Ruler titles: duce, fuhrer, I forget the spanish one
>-reply to above: Japan was not a fascist state.

Furher. The spanish one was "caudillo" (the capitan of the chief, if I'm correct).
The Japan WAS a fascist state. It perhaps had the Emperor, but only at a symbolic figure (except at the very end of the war when the Emperor forced its military staff to make peace), and the power was in the hands of generals. The government was praising the racial superiority of Japaneses, was aiming a huge conquest war to realize the dream of the Dai Nippon (great Japan, from Korea to Australia) and showed all the features of fascism. Japan in WW2 was, in fact, fascist.

>I'd put corruption at nuisance, but I'm not sure what corruption
>really represents, other than a stupid hack fix for a flawed
>engine.

Corruption represent the quantity of goods, money and work that is wasted/embezzled (right word ?). The reasons can be that the local men in charge keep a part for themselves, or that the city is a remote, backward one, or that there is a tradition to bribe the official (particularly for despotic government, as in ancient China), etc...
Fascism has a part of 'cult of the leader'. The power is absolute in the hand of the dirigeant, and subsequently (spelling ?) the power of someone in fascism is nearly all the time absolute toward his inferiors. Just see as how Goering, Goebbels and the like could kill thousand people just if they wanted, with a single phone call.
So what happen is that a large part of the wealth is easily theft by city governors and the like, so the corruption should be fairly high (remember how Goering could pillage all the art from occupied territory, just to be able to show them in his house).
Corruption : AT LEAST the level of republic.

>I think this is an imbalanced modification to the game, because
>this would be the best government. However this is due to
>game flaws, but I would put fascism on par with democracy and
>communism, at least for short periods of time. We've never
>really seen a fascist government go on for a long period of time.

Franco hold Spain for more than 30 years. Greece was ruled by Colonels for nearly as long. Argentina and Brazil suffered the same fate. The fact is, fascism is good for war, but the rest of the country is stagnant, because of the lack of freedom and because most of the nation's energy is directed toward repression.

>my information comes mainly from an excellent couple of books
>called the rise and fall of the third reich, I highly recommend it.

>as to whether fascism is inherently evil, I'd say yes, but only
>because I believe in freedom. I would say that
>monarchy/despotism/communism are all evil too. However that
>is me speaking as a citizen, if I could, I would be a fascist
>leader, because I think that would be the most fun.

Well, that is not part of the game, if we start about it, we will end in a philosophical reasoning about Good and Bad, and it's "only" a Civ3 forum here :)
 
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