Fascist Patch for Civ3

[VoodooAce]

i look forward to playing with this mod.

it is just a game, afterall.

I agree that fascism has as much a place in the game as communism, republic and democracy.....shoot, it's not like the usa is innocent of committing crimes against humanity. it was only 35 years ago we had politicians fighting against civil rights. some of them are even still in congress! strom thurmond switched from the democrats to republicans because he didn't want to be associated with the n****r lovers!!! not sure what's more amazing, he's still alive AND still in the senate. those carolinians...


I am very anti-censorship.....my son's school board is actually trying to ban a couple books....harry potter has even been mentioned!!!!! dumasses....anyway, i do not advocate any censorship. say what you want. which is what I'm abou to do.....

there are, apparently (but, unfortunately, not surprisingly) some loosely veiled nazi sypathizers posting here.

WTH is wrong with you people?

if you sympathize, excuse, empathize, etc.... you are a pig. a swine. an ignorant, lower form of life. i wish i could extract from my head words to describe the utter disgust i have for anyone that does.

historically, are there any redeming qualities about fascism? (rhetorical question, not to be used as an opportunity to tell me about the great roads hitler built!)

 

[dannyevilcat]

Alright, if your problem with this or ANY fascist patch is simply the use of the swastika, or you'd just rather have a change, I drew up a new .pcx graphic to use instead.

Just replace the old one with the new. ( I posted waaaayyyy back about someone doing this.)

For the record, though, I still use the original.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Danny,

You mind if I use your Fasces as an OPTION in the Fascist Patch?

I'll still have the Swastika included of course, but for those people with incredibly thin skins, I can include the Fasces as an option.

After all, the Fascist Patch is all about giving people choices, not denying them options.

 

[dannyevilcat]

Sure, Wolf, no prob.

 

[Per_Roar]

Since there is a possibility that negotiations between to civilisations that is related. As I can remember it’s easier to negotiate deals with civ that is near you. As the Americans it was easier to get a deal with Aztecs than the Egyptians. I have not seen this before, but if this was possible then the opportunity to get one civ city to assimilate. Remember that in Netherlands during WWII many of the citizens were a member of a Nazi organisation. But this should only be possible with a civ that is near culturally. The Ukraine’s where seeing the Nazi as liberators but since they were not culturally equal, they where looked upon as slaves. This was not the case with the Western European occupied people. So if this was tweaked in it wood be a good addition.

 

[Achiles]

can some one post the original Espionage pic. I accidently deleated the fascist patch when I installed the fundamentalism patch but I still have that swasticka(I don't think i spelled that right) pic in the game for the Espionage tech.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Achiles,

If you have the Civ3 CD, you have all the original images!

 

[dannyevilcat]

So I didn't really like my first go at the fasces icon.

So I started from scratch and greatly improved it.

So use it instead of the old dumb one. Promise it's good.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by VoodooAce
I think Giorgicus said it best.

That site is disgusting.

Evil. Just by what it represents, fascism is the bane of freedom and good.

Anyone that disagrees with that, or says 'but hitler did some good things. he built roads and stuff' is also probably quite evil, whether they realize it or not.

But I can't wait to play it......

One note: Fascism was a complete failure as a form of government. Why can be debated, but the fact is they got their @$$es gloriously whooped 60 years ago.

Gloriously whooped!!!!

Get a hold on yourself, man!
It's only a game, put that shotgun down!

Millions of people killed...Glorious. Yeah right....

 

[thinkinc]

Originally posted by Viridovix
I agree. The mod is not only in bad taste but also poorly models a historically insignificant form of government.

I would leave the patch here however, for people to download and try. Go ahead and play it. Think of yourself as being the kind of person who would lead a nation in that way. When you get the sickened feeling in your stomach you know you are human. Then delete the patch and be glad that men who would play it gleefully are little more than mice in the pipes or long ago dead and correctly vilified.

Remember, for to forget is to relive.
Viridovix

Oh, please.

Fascism is just so insignificant that because of it there are a couple of forward deployed Nimitz-class carriers over in the middle east oceans, enough bomb fragments scattered across the Afghani countryside to supply the residents with a new form of currency, and some several thousand American civilians dead.

Fascism is so insignificant that the whole geography of Europe has been displaced and rearranged so many times, there are still burned-out tanks ornamenting the countryside. It's so unimportant that hundreds upon thousands - perhaps millions? - of Semite people still bristle at words "Nazi," "Hitler," or even "Germany" depending upon how well-indoctrinated they are to holocaust history and history-revisionism. In fact, we could just forget about fascism, except that any time that WWII or any of its implications are discussed - and this is pretty much the entire Industrial Revolution, the science that makes it possible for you to whine about that patch, and the economic power that catapulted America to the pivotal position we've enjoyed in the world's theatre for the past 80 years or so - we are reminded of it. At least until self-indulgent revisionists start obfuscating it because it was evil, offensive, sickening and real. Just the way that the slaughter of the entire culture of the American natives is obscured by the stylized mantle of progress.

It is absurd to say that fascism is insignificant, and it is just this sort of ignorant, myopic, touchy-feely utopian fearfulness that makes a hypocrite of anyone who privately aspires for world domination in a game, only to sneer at the reality of his own history because it does not suit him to accept it.

Looking history in the eye for what it is does not equate to the endorsement of the inevitability of atrocities that have occurred in the name of progress, conquest and sheer madness. It only means that we possess the wherewithal to see ourselves for what we are.

In order to make people like this happy, we'd need a patch for a government style called the People's Republic of Berkeley where the only piece of land that can possibly mean anything to anyone is the front steps of the government building where you picket whenever anyone says anything in regards to anything. I'm sure that this would be an accurate reflection of history. Maybe we could replace the little wheat-stalk resources with granola, while we're at it. Every style of government has committed atrocities, and democracy is only better because it is so inefficient that no one can make insane unilateral decisions that result in the eradication its own citizenry. So, if you find evil governments too awful to play, why not just make a custom map that has a little island in the middle of the map like Tristan de Cuna where everyone eats nuts and berries and lives in mud huts.

Christ on a crutch, people.

Regards,

H. Chase

 

[Regul]

In general i agree with your analysis as the upgrades are just a bit too much for fascists-mod in the game, anyhow i have some comments left you may find interesting.

Originally posted by Kino

For those reasons, I think the Fascism mod is a bit unbalanced. Here's how I would balance it:

1) Corruption Level goes up to "Problematic." This puts it on par with Monarchy; more corrupt than Democracy or Republic, but less corrupt than Despotism or Communism.

2) Assimilation Chance goes down to 2%. This reflects the difficult that a highly Nationalistic government has with foreigners. This is worse than Democracy or Communism, on par with Republic and Monarchy, and better than Despotism.

3) No Steal Technology Immunity. Fascist technology can be stolen just like any others.

4) Modified Resistance Ratings. Fascists are less resistant to Despotism or Monarchy governments, because they are similar in outlook to extreme nationalism. They are no more or less resistant to Democratic or Republican conquerers. They are more resistant to Anarchy and Communism, but at a rating of 5 (on par with other resistant governments), not at the previous level of 10.

How does this match up? In the rules of the game, Fascism becomes a sort of modern Monarchy (with everyone putting their belief in a nation, not a king). Corruption and Unit Support on equal to Monarchy, but Fascism can use more units as Military Police to enforce happiness. Also unlike Monarchy, Fascism allows the Standard Trade Bonus. This is balanced out by the fact that you must be much further along in scientific development to use Fascism.

If you want to use this modified form of Fascism I just described, download the mod below instead of the other mod. It is a slightly altered version of Steven Strayer's mod with the changes I mention here. [/B]

#1
Corruption didn't plague fascist-germany as their people did support the system at a very high percentage. Only after loosing battle of 'Stalingrad' the mood partially changed. Possibly to gain a certain *golden age* or two quite after changing goverment would adopt this into the gameplay.

#2
Agreed mostly, as the fascists fought mostly for gaining 'Lebensraum'...areas to settle their very own people and not to overtake enemy cities. I don't know if it is possible to half a conquered cities population for fascists to take concern on fleeing the threat of fascism warmachine.

#3
Agreed, even if the political resistance nearly ended, there has been enough spying and other things in fascist states during ww2 that worked quite properly.

#4
However i would like to keep Fundamentalism as a natural upgrade to Fascism, whose intentions generally allow such a theory. Monarchy as an downgrade alternate, including less resistance to both Monarchy and Fundamentalism. Communism as totally comparing system with the highest resistence level, next lower levels for Democracy, Anarchy, Republican, Despotism.


-#
As for the trade bonus, well i'm not really intimate how it could be fixed, but fascists had mostly traded only with minor states or also fascist or monarchy/fundamentalist like nations. Probably there is a chance to sort trade the way as mentioned above in #4.

Well, hope my 5 cents (european of course ) could be usefull for another upgrade as i really do not agree with 'political correctness' changing a game's look, whose aim is to cover and allow to re-play lifetimes in history.

R*

 

[Wolfshanze]

The Fascist Patch has been rereleased to version 1.3 with the change that Bismarck is removed, and Hitler has been added as the new head of state.

This doesn't mean YOU will be Hitler unless you want to be, now you can face against Hitler in the Fascist Patch and crush them if you so desire!

 

[ComradeRed]

I was very disturbed by comments I read in this thread suggesting that this be removed. Now as you can probably see by my nick, I am in no way pro-fascist myself, in fact I am very anti-fascist. However, who cares if this is trying to support the concept of fascism, who cares if it is racist or whatnot? It's got some warnings, it would be undemocratic to say that alternative views aren't welcome. If this is how this guy sees fascism working, then fine, any that agree can download the MOD. If you disagree, make your own or wait for another. I personally will make my own version, as soon as I figure out how. Along with my own version of socialism and communism. Which, I should mention many of you will see as wrong.

On my own veiws on fascism, it should be seen running much like the communism that's already in Civ 3. After all, it's modeled after Red China and the USSR, who were never really socialist or communist, but if you ask me, they were a form of fascism.

But point is, don't get all uptight by this guy offering his mod as he did. He was just making an offer. You don't have to download it. And you can still get other fascist mods that aren't pro fascism.

 

[dswallen]

Something that Ironfang missed in his concise round-up of the massacres in history was the modernization of Russia. He referred to Stalinization in the 1950s when I think he meant what happened beginning with the first Five Year Plan in 1928.

Stalin deliberately starved millions in the Ukraine, exercised genocide against a class of people, peasants (supposedly kulaks) and the Great Purges of 1936 saw even city populations decimated.

People are wrong to think that Fascism killed the greatest number of people. Without including the casualties of WWII (Red Alert gives some insight as to the role of communism without fascism) Stalin killed far more than Hitler.

Around 7million Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals were killed by the Nazis yet Stalin starved far more (approx. 20mill I think).

Communism is the most disgusting form of government, and including Fascism is a far lesser evil than glorifying the military capabilities of Communism.

and yes, it is a game

 

[The Splang]

I just D/L'ed the mod. The website looks nice but I wish there were a few more pictures of Musolini or Hirahito (Japan could've been considered a fundy or a fascist...) Because hitler wasn't the only fascist...

 

[Chuckster]

All this philosophical debate and fiery tirades over a video game, I love it. And I'll tell you why I love it, because the truth is the historical truth not the politically truth which is fed to young who dont know better. I hope they havent been brainwashed and if they dont believe us (the historically correct) just look it up! That's right open a book. Dont be afraid that you might be wrong, no one goes through life without making a mistake. Heres one big lie, George Bush (by the way I like George Bush) said that the afghans hate our freedom, our way of life. Thats 100% bullshi!t. The afghans and most of the middle east hate OUR MILITARY HELP AND SUPPORT OF ISREAL!! Afhans could give less of a crap how we live our lives they just get pissed when the Isrealites are using america weapons or we bomb a country like iraq or other middle eastern countries and then demand "peace in the middle east". We can supply weapons without using them and our hands are clean?

On another note, when I went into the website I loved it, and I sang along with the music. Does that make me a facist? And if I am racist? Does that mean I should die or that my opinion doesnt matter? For all the freedom of America i think that Mel Gisbon said it best in the patriot, "why should I trade one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants a mile away"? When most of america hated native americans, there was the trail of tears, when slavery existed the people who fought for slave's freedom in the North hated blacks as well. Abraham Lincoln (included in the game) was extremely racist, and had a dream for a "lily white america", maybe I should play the americans eh? Old Abe was killed before he could start the "back to africa movement" he had been planning. But PCedness says he was a father figure and the best leader ever. Basically the majority no matter how wrong is always right in a democracy, ask any native american. Now the tide has turned in pc crap and white guilt trips. I am proud to be white and of german hertiage and odds are at least half of the white people in this country have some german in them. I didnt have any part in slavery or Nazis germany so dont put it on me. If you think Im a facist I dont care. There are plenty of all black groups who look out for only BLACKS and negro college funds, the back panthers (think black nazis) and the Naacp but omg if it was all white-facists facists facists(how about majority college fund). So if you all hate facism think of this...wouldnt it be great if YOU were one type of person the government loved and treasured, not betrayed by the politicians for affirmative action, not trying to make everyone equal (your SKILL not color determines your worth-not everyone is as skilled as others). In America today things have to be black and white not grey. Hitler DID do some good things, he ended unemployment in 3 years and there was even a labor shortage. Mind you, germany had the HIGHEST unemployment rate in the WORLD (during a world depression). Hitler was able to cut through the bs and get stuff done. Genoside? America only cares when its the type of people getting killed, in South africa white people are being killed but nooo their white and "former repressers" (all of them-including the kids) and its not pc to stick up for white people. ALso in South africa blacks are killing differents tribes of black people, in the hundreds of thousands. Is africa important to us as compared to say Europe? no not really. Pol pot killed millions of asians under his rule but hey we dont care. Am I glorifying Hitler? No Hitler caused millions of my fellow germans, people I consider relatives, to die, and for that I will never forget nor forgive. I want the truth, can you handle the truth? Read my post and try not to become all irrational and emotional, if you think im wrong use logic not morality or "because" answers. I also dont want your feelings. Prove me wrong with facts not "your a mean bad person". I see the truth and its about time you did too.

*whew*

 

[VoodooAce]

Talk about thin skins...

Some of the sick Nazi sympathizers really get bitter when you tell them what an evil guy Adolf was, how poorly their government of choice worked (history don't lie, my brothers), and how sick you believe somebody has to be to be a Nazi sympathizer.

Deal with it.

I'm not arguing against the patch. It's a game and fascism belongs right there with Communism and despotism in the game.

My prob is with those in this forum that are obviously pro-Nazi. Wake up and smell the cyanide, baby! All the talk about fascism not being a failure as a government are mistaken. Otherwise, don't you think there might still be at least one fascist nation left?


BTW, I'm white, of German ancestory, and very much an avid, if amateur, history buff. I definitely know my WWII. At least I know enough to know that these guys were evil incarnate.

And who cares who killed the most, or who was more evil? Hitler killed more than Osama. They all suck, baby! Just because I compare Osama Bin Laden to, say, Fidel Castro doesn't make Fidel a good guy. He's just not as bad a guy as Osama. Right?

Compare Charles Manson to OJ Simpson, and OJ looks pretty good. But OJ isn't a good guy.

Comparing Hitler to Stalin does not make Hitler a good guy. They definitely belong in the same group! Bad human beings that deserved far worse deaths than they got.

 

[VoodooAce]

BTW, I'm actually so white and blonde that, while living in Portland, Oregon about 6 years ago, I was recruited by a guy that I thought was my friend (we worked together in a bar) to join a neo-nazi group.

Dude and his fat girlfriend were very sick. Tapes of Randy Weaver speaking to all his sick, ignorant little soldiers. Posters. Ruby Ridge and Waco. Sick stuff, man.

He got about 30 seconds into his pitch when I let him know how wrong he had judged me!!!!

BTW, Waco? Didn't they open up on the feds first. I mean before they set their own compound on fire?!?! :crazyeyes 'Nuf said!

 

[Giorgicus]

Chuckster:

Boy, it takes some patience and a bit of willpower to get through your mildly white supremacist blather, but having done so, I note that you say nothing about the merits of the Fascist Patch.

Most people here have not advocated suppression of speech; we are debating the pros & cons of the Fascist Patch, and questioning the motives of its creator.

I am sure there are plenty of skinhead/randy weaver/militia websites where your views are better expressed. I suggest we stick to Civ here.

 

[Scipio Africanu]

I am surprised and appalled by some of the lack of information on this page about the German Nazi government. I don't pretend to know it all but some things need to be cleared up.

Hitler's so called economic progression was very real but only occured due to the fact of his military buildup. Every job he made was taken from another, mostly jewish business men. He grabed these factories through the Nuremburg Laws created for Jewish/Duestch segregation. So he was no genius and did no good, he simply created good in the wake of what he planned to commit, which was atrocious. Further more he accomplished this great production by under paying even his german workers, just creating a lot of low paying jobs.

By 1938 he had made significant progress in the rebuilding of the German homeland. Signs of the First World War, which were still present in the mid 1930's, were no where to be seen. Now to the surprise of many not all of germany was Nazi, infact the Nazi government was only actually a party. Infact it is estimated by 1939 only 70% of the population in german homeland (area sovreign to germany before 1938) was Nazi. Others accepted the government, simply due to circumstance. So they were not all reaching and not everyone was absolute in their loyalty. Tapes of huge rally's and of grand cheering during his speeches is attributed to patriotism in germany, hitlers inate ability to minipulate crowds (its been scientifically proven), and later response to the war effort. I would never say it was attributed to their love of a fascist government.

Through minipulation, half truths, and vieled threats Germany expanded their territory from 1938 - 1941. They aquired "Rhine Land", Eastern European States, and areas of the Balken area through diplomatic pressure. When these areas were mobilized with troops ethnic or religious minorities were gathered for transport to the "proper zones". Anti Nazi activists were shot or imprisoned and a levy of people in these states was enacted for military service.

By 1943 the Jewish people had been herded into Ghetto's, atrocities had already taken place in Latvia, Poland, Austria, and many of the Balken States, and preperations were beginning for the concentration camps. Without a doubt Hitler and his fascist government were absolute in their horror and should never be, in my opinion, praised or even condoned. Their behaviour as a government was completly contrary to established International Law established properly by 1954.

I feel I can safely say that Fascist governmetns are only tolerated by a poverty stricken or highly religious people. The greater their economic stance and comfort of life increases the more then become less willing to be subdued.