Favorite Great People?

[Haig]

Boudicca:
She converts barbarians to your army. A really fun ability, could be a cool mechanic for some civ too.

Stamford Raffles:
Absorbs a city-state into your empire. Powerful late game merchant, it's also nice to read and learn about the people and learn of the history behind them.

I like that in Civ VI there are some surprising choices in generals and admirals, not just the usual Rommels but some unusual picks I never heard of.

 

[Luxerne]

In terms of game ability:
Admirals: Leif Erikson, Yi Sun-sin, Franz von Hipper, Chester Nimitz, Matthew Perry, Grace Hopper
Engineers: Imhotep, Bi Sheng, Shah Jahan, Wernher von Braun
Merchants: Zhang Qian, Ibn Fadlan, Marco Polo, Giovanni de Medici, Stamford Raffles, John Rockefeller
Scientists: Hildegard von Bingen, Isaac Newton, Carl Sagan, Stephanie Kwolek, Abdus Salam
Artists: Andrei Rublev, Hieronymus Bosch, Michelangelo, El Greco, Titian, Rembrandt (the early cluster of religious artists that are easy to theme)

In terms of being cool/interesting figures to me I was happy to learn about, or already knew about and was particularly happy/pleasantly surprised to see included:
Generals: Trung Trac, Dandara, Ana Nzinga, Túpac Amaru II, Rani Lakshmibai, José de San Martín, Samori Touré, Sudirman
Admirals: Rajendra Chola, Zheng He, Yi Sun-sin, Ching Shih, Laskarina Bouboulina, Matthew Perry, Joaquim Marques Lisboa, Togo Heihachiro, Grace Hopper
Engineers: Mimar Sinan, Ada Lovelace, Nikola Tesla, Robert Goddard, Wernher von Braun, Kenzo Tange, Charles Correa
Merchants: Ibn Fadlan, Irene of Athens, Zhou Daguan, Adam Smith, Sarah Breedlove, Levi Strauss, Masaru Ibuka
Scientists: Abu Al-Qasim Al-Zahrawi, Hildegard von Bingen, Omar Khayyam, Ibn Khaldun, Emilie du Chatelet, Alan Turing, Janaki Ammal, Mary Leakey, Abdus Salam, Carl Sagan
Prophets: Bodhidharma, Songstan Gampo, O no Yasumaro, Thomas Aquinas, Francis of Assisi
Writers: Rabindranath Tagore, H. G. Wells, Karel Capek, Gabriela Mistral
Artists: Kamal ud-Din Behzad, Hasegawa Tohaku, Qiu Ying, Jang Seung-eop, Sofonisba Anguissola, Angelica Kauffman, Edmonia Lewis, Amrita Sher-Gil, Wassily Kandinsky
Musicians: Dimitrie Cantemir, Antonio Carlos Gomes, Liu Tianhua, Scott Joplin, Juventino Rosas, Clara Schumann, Lili'uokalani, Gauhar Jaan

In terms of my favorite quotes/artworks/music chosen:
Writers: Qu Yuan, Li Bai, Murasaki Shikibu, William Shakespeare, Jane Austen, Mary Shelley, James Joyce, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Karel Capek
Artists: Rembrandt, Hasegawa Tohaku, Katsushika Hokusai, Amrita Sher-Gil, Gustav Klimt, Mary Cassatt, Wassily Kandinsky
Musicians: Ludwig van Beethoven, Antonio Vivaldi, Antonio Carlos Gomes, Frédéric Chopin, Antonin Dvorak, Clara Schumann, Lili'uokalani

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

@Luxerne - this means a lot to read. We tried to pick People who were cool, compelling, illuminating. Someone like Dandara might not have made a dramatic impact on the course of empire, but she embodied a particular unique moment - a martial-arts-based sense of independence (and, frankly, a cool movie plot). Someone like Kandinsky or Zheng He, on the other hand, had massive impacts (Zheng offered up the possibility for a Ming China to expand into South Asia and Africa, though never came to being).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

@Luxerne - this means a lot to read. We tried to pick People who were cool, compelling, illuminating. Someone like Dandara might not have made a dramatic impact on the course of empire, but she embodied a particular unique moment - a martial-arts-based sense of independence (and, frankly, a cool movie plot). Someone like Kandinsky or Zheng He, on the other hand, had massive impacts (Zheng offered up the possibility for a Ming China to expand into South Asia and Africa, though never came to being).

The individualized Great People representation is one of the Iconic elements of Civ VI, as well as being a great 'learning tool' for gamers interested enough to follow up on some of the personages presented.

On the other hand, with the possible exception of Leaders, I can't think of anything that will generate more commentary than trying to pick Great People for the game: everybody has their own choices, and no list will identify and include everyone, or even a fraction of every potential Great Person. Special Kudos to the team, though, for going outside the usual Eurocentric lists: even if I disagree with some of your choices, I can't fault the sheer variety of sources!

Oh, and if you accept any of Menzies' thesis, Zheng He may have made it as far as the Americas and Australia although, as far as Results were concerned, any such contact had no real Impact except to leave traces of intriguing maps behind . . .

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Thanks! The Great People were a lot of fun to work on, especially as they allowed us to look at minor figures, or figures from people that might not make it as a full-fledged Civ, or people with particular specialities (e.g. Dandara and her capoeira).

As far as Menzies... unfortunately I don't buy his conclusions. He doesn't really have any credentials, works on speculation, and even Zheng He's biggest proponents amongst Chinese historians don't buy the fleet making it past the Cape of Good Hope. The only proponents seem to be those who really desire conspiracy theories, or want to make a case for Chinese ethnic nationalism to the detriment of indigenous peoples (e.g. Maori, who he claims are Chinese-descended). It's an intriguing idea, but not supported by nearly any evidence at all. If you're looking for heterodox historical takes from me, I'm open to the idea of an earlier human movement into the Americas (in the 20,000 YA era, not the 12,000 YA) and open to the idea of a seaborne migration via the Pacific, but as far as old world / new world contact before 1492 (excepting the very brief, possibly seasonal Norse fishing camp in Canada) I'm going to need a lot of evidence. Menzies simply doesn't provide anything compelling.

 

[Haig]

If I rememmber correctly there's many Sri Lankan great people in the game, always made me think that someone working Firaxis is originally from there.

 

[ShakaKhan]

One of my new favs is Zheng Heng. Let him sit on a campus until you trigger the eurekas for the 3 techs,, and then it *feels* like you skip right from the ancient era to the medieval era. Yes, there are several other techs in there, but it really seems like a slingshot ahead. The timing is a little difficult as he pretty much has to be your first GS - otherwise you'd be delaying important techs to get the full value from him.

Moreover, learning how to utilize him has given me greater appreciation for the eureka based scientists. Like most, I used to be of the camp that believed that Hypatia is the only early one worth the investment, and still find him to be quite valuable. But the trick with the Eureka based scientists is to not pop them right away - Hypatia gives more value the earlier you pop him, but the eureka based ones give you three eurekas or two and an inspiration whenever you pop them. So look at which eras they can affect, plan out which eurekas you're most likely to miss and actively pursue the eurekas that are easier to come by. That way you're not going to boost something like iron working when there's an iron source three tiles out and you just need to wait a few turns to have the gold to buy the tile. Then when all that's left are the 3 that aren't going to happen that game Bam... the turns required to research them are almost halved. Not quite as good as Zheng Heng as he gives 60% to their 40, but it's still a much bigger boost if you cut out the RNG and basically pick which boosts you get.

f we're looking at best instead of favorite though, I have to go with Ibn Khaldun.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Thanks! The Great People were a lot of fun to work on, especially as they allowed us to look at minor figures, or figures from people that might not make it as a full-fledged Civ, or people with particular specialities (e.g. Dandara and her capoeira).

I confess I have posted several times on a possible expansion of the Great People to include Great Ministers (or Administrators) as a way of adding a 'modifier' to a Leader's Uniques for more variety: adding an Alcuin, Hasdai ibn Shaprut, Tlacaelel, Oxenstiern or Richelieu could change a lot of the 'focus' of a Leader . . .

As far as Menzies... unfortunately I don't buy his conclusions. He doesn't really have any credentials, works on speculation, and even Zheng He's biggest proponents amongst Chinese historians don't buy the fleet making it past the Cape of Good Hope. The only proponents seem to be those who really desire conspiracy theories, or want to make a case for Chinese ethnic nationalism to the detriment of indigenous peoples (e.g. Maori, who he claims are Chinese-descended). It's an intriguing idea, but not supported by nearly any evidence at all. If you're looking for heterodox historical takes from me, I'm open to the idea of an earlier human movement into the Americas (in the 20,000 YA era, not the 12,000 YA) and open to the idea of a seaborne migration via the Pacific, but as far as old world / new world contact before 1492 (excepting the very brief, possibly seasonal Norse fishing camp in Canada) I'm going to need a lot of evidence. Menzies simply doesn't provide anything compelling.

He has credentials, just not as a historian or anthropologist of any kind. He is/was a trained navigator and ship commander in the Royal Navy, and so he was able to correct the distorted maps from the 15th century for Longitude, which they couldn't measure at the time, and postulated that based on ocean current drift and correcting for that, the maps in fact were a very accurate depiction of the coast of South America and Australia long before any European supposedly got to either place.
As he started collecting 'evidence' that the Chinese were the source of this 'contact', I think his major mistake was in underestimating the massive impact of the Columbian Exchange, which moved plants/animals from the Americas to all parts of the 'Old World' so fast that it looked like evidence of earlier contact. That negates the majority of his incidental 'evidence', and so leaving, basically, only his rather arcane evidence from the maps.

Precolumbian America - Eurasian contact I think is very possible beyond the Norse in Canada, because the Equatorial ocean currents in the Atlantic, for instance, will take you from the North African coast to Trinidad almost no matter what you do, and the North Pacific current will run you from Japan to the Aleutian chain and down the coast to Puget Sound - if you can survive the North Pacific weather. However, except for some trace similarities here and there (Japanese fishing village houses and Pacific Northwest native plank houses, for instance, are very similar in appearance) there's nothing definitive to say that what Might have happened did, in fact, happen, and certainly no indication that even if it did happen, it had any historical impact

 

[Vargas1]

From a gameplay perspective, I'm a big fan of the wonder-boosting Great Engineers. In particular, the two most recent ones can be crazy powerful if you get lucky with the generation and then plan it right. If you slot in Corvee, you can use the first Imhotep charge on Mausoleum and build it immediately, which gives you two more charges. Any combination (depending on when you get him and what's remaining) of Colosseum, Petra, Etemenaki, Oracle, Terracotta Army can be pretty great to get with no production expended. Worst-case scenario, I end up using a final charge on wonders that are helpful but not crucial - Great Lighthouse, Colossus, Statue of Zeus - or just adding the 175 prod onto a later wonder.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the cycle, unless you're unexpectedly poor late-game Shah Jahan basically auto-builds any two wonders in the game.

For scientists, Hypatia and Newton are the obvious choices and ones that I tend to prioritize when possible. But one of the things that's fun about playing with Babylon is that they flip the usual prioritization on its head - Hypatia isn't as strong when he is effectively giving 0.5 extra science per library, but getting three full technologies from Aryabhata or Zhang Heng can be huge.

 

[kaspergm]

The Great Scientist that adds healing to adjacent units is super strong bordering on overpowered. He will easily remove any challenge the AI might provide against your conquest, and you can use him the entire game. He - along with the wonder-building engineers and the save-your-prophet abuse - is one of the main reasons that I think Great People should have a lifespan like heroes instead of just being able to live forever.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The Great Scientist that adds healing to adjacent units is super strong bordering on overpowered. He will easily remove any challenge the AI might provide against your conquest, and you can use him the entire game. He - along with the wonder-building engineers and the save-your-prophet abuse - is one of the main reasons that I think Great People should have a lifespan like heroes instead of just being able to live forever.

Implementing a Best Used By date on Great People has the added "benefit" that it makes room for more Great people in the game, as constant replacements for 'expiring' GPs.

 

[jasper]

Nothing personal but it defeats the purpose of these lists when we list every possibility....

I dont remember their names.

But the great generals and admirals that give a free unit stand out. Its a fun bonus that gives the player options and something to play around. Getting that free steamboat melee naval unit out before other civs is a huge boost and gives the player something to use or make decisions with.

I also wish more of the artist type great ppl followed the same model. The artists are pretty boring but useful. Theres not any artist gp that add unique timely bonuses. They are use em as soon as you get em. Theres nothing to think about. You dont even need to read any text descritpion to see what they do. Generals and admirals this is completely opposite as they are do something unique.

 

[Wellfooled]

Nothing personal but it defeats the purpose of these lists when we list every possibility....

I think in this case the purpose is a discussion. After all, a favorite is a very subjective thing. If we just posted our top five favorites with no discussion, it would be pretty boring and useless. Since a discussion is happening regardless of how many Great People people include on their list, I don't think there's any problem.

As for me, I usually get a lot of Great Admirals, because I love harbors--but there are lots that have abilities I don't use much. I'm not much of a warmonger and many Admirals have a military focus. However, Matthew Perry with his ability to take a City State from a rival is fantastic. I love destroying a deeply established Suzerianship with him.

 

[kaspergm]

However, Matthew Perry with his ability to take a City State from a rival is fantastic. I love destroying a deeply established Suzerianship with him.

I only got him once as I don't normally focus on harbors, but personally I found his ability felt like cheating. The fact that there are no limits to how many envoys he gives and removes is imo. an unhealthy design, particularly since he's earned by a mechanism that's not particularly related to city state interference.

 

[iammaxhailme]

(I'm judging by gameplay utility, not who they were in history)

A few that stick out in my mind that I generally really want to recruit are...

- Hildegard (the great scientist who gives science from holy site adjacency)
- Any of the great engineers who give a lump sum of production to wonder building, the earlier the better
- Any of the merchants who give a trade route slot

 

[Wellfooled]

I only got him once as I don't normally focus on harbors, but personally I found his ability felt like cheating. The fact that there are no limits to how many envoys he gives and removes is imo. an unhealthy design, particularly since he's earned by a mechanism that's not particularly related to city state interference.

Absolutely he does feel very powerful, but I think all the best great people feel like cheating, which is why they're so desired. Like Shah Jahan who was brought up a few times, just hands you completed wonders. I wish every great person would have that same overpowered feeling. Great Artists, Musicians, Writers, and Prophets just feel so lackluster by comparision.

The great person mechanic isn't directly tied to the city-state mechanic, but I don't really feel like much of anything is. Harbors represent trade and influence and not just navies, I'm glad some of the Great Admirals reflect that.