Favorite Wonder -Ancient

[knightblk]

colosus, Great librairy, and great wall.

colosus-must have for tax revenue and science.

Great librairy-good for games in which your not totaly interested in science.

Great wall-steal tech's from AI's then use wall to force them into either cease fire or peace.

 

[Zulu]

Starlifter,

Could you expand on how to use the Collusus? I never realized it was such a good wonder.

-Zulu

 

[Ace]

Starlifter has not been arround of a while, but if you do a search using "super science city" or SSC, you should find what your looking for. Also, check out the war academy section. There are lots of good ideas there.

 

[Zulu]

The search doesn't work....

I'll have a look at the war academy section though, thanks.

-Zulu

 

[Old n Slow]

My answer (part 1) will be a poor substitute for Starlifter's, but maybe I can provide some examples which could show (undramatically) the difference.

For an "across the board" -- same player (me) same time frame (circa 1000AD) from recent Games of the Month.

Attached is my save from 17, Emperor level. My SSC (Cardiff, the capital) has Colossus & this city contributes half (108/184) of my empire's beakers.

 

[Old n Slow]

Answer (part 2) This save (980 AD) is from the GOTM 18, Diety. My SSC missed out on the Colossus, and now only contributes a third of my empire's beakers (20/60).

 

[Old n Slow]

Answer part 3 (Final Answer! ) This save is from GOTM 19, where we started with a Wonder (I chose Hanging Gardens) in the Capital (Moscow, which became my SSC). Game level is Emperor again, and in 1000AD, my SSC generated two thirds of my empire's beakers (60/92).

I think that Starlifter would also highlight the effect of trade (3 trade routes brought in 16 of the 52 trade arrows, Colossus generated 9, another 9 due to the "We Love effect in Monarchy, rest due to roaded terrain & whales).

Rather than focusing on the pieces & parts, keep an eye on the total package -- the SSC will grow to a max size (which means Colossus contributes 20 arrows, and the trade arrow effect will also grow), a university will be added (along with Research Lab/SETI, airport, Superhighways), & Issac Newtons will double the entire story.

 

[Zulu]

I would have lived to see those saves but unfortunately I can't open them. I think I see your point though.

Only thing that I find annoying is that in the end those wonders are worth about as much as a Library, individually. I guess it's all about the cumulative effect

-Zulu

 

[Zulu]

BTW, you mention three trade routes, but can't you have an infinity of trade routes, in theory? If so, why haven't you done that?

Thanks,

-Zulu

 

[atawa]

LH, If I can deliver 200+ caravans who needs any of the other wonders?

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by Zulu
The search doesn't work....

CFC has been overloaded lately; they were supposed to be upgrading the servers, in the mean time they have disabled avatars and search.

Try going to Apolyton.Net/civ2, go to Forums, look for Strategy, and check out the Great Library thread. There should be something about SSC, ICS, etc.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by Zulu
BTW, you mention three trade routes, but can't you have an infinity of trade routes, in theory?

You can deliver an infinite number of caravans from any one city, but you can only have three "routes" at one time. Sometimes a new delivery will replace an existing route. There is a whole group of threads of the Strategy forum over on Apolyton.Net devoted to analyzing how trade routes are "refreshed" and upgraded.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by Zulu
Only thing that I find annoying is that in the end those wonders are worth about as much as a Library, individually. I guess it's all about the cumulative effect.

The SuperScienceCity is all about "cumulative effect". The Colossus gives an extra trade arrow for every square that is already producing one. Then either Republic or WLTKD celebrating Monarchy adds a second. Three trade routes add a bunch more. From those and the terrain arrows, the science improvements (library, univ, res-lab) multiply the science production of the arrows, and the science wonders (Copernicus & IsaacNewtons) multiply it even more. Each of these only works in one city, so you have to get them all in a specially-selected city with maximum trade terrain. Late game, add SuperHighways and Airports to get even more benefit. Put Tax/Lux improvements in the same city to get extra gold and be able to max the city out earlier.

My current OCC in GOTM21 is generating around 800 beakers PER TURN at 80%Science. I've got 165 trade arrows after adding SuperHighways (soon to lose Colossus though...). Trade routes are something like +15,+18,+21 or so. Pretty powerful.

 

[ElephantU]

Originally posted by atawa
LH, If I can deliver 200+ caravans who needs any of the other wonders?

Those caravans will pay piddly if you dont rehome them in a Colossus trade-enhanced city...

LH only gives one extra move point, and expires early-mid game with Magnetism. Colossus lasts till Flight, and Pyramids doesnt expire.

As far as ancient wonders goes, I rate Colossus first goal, with MarcoPolo second. Those 200 (in my dreams) caravans are much more effective if I've traded for maps early in the game with AI civs I havent even met yet.

 

[Old n Slow]

Agreed, caravans can great. But they have to be used to their best advantage. In my latest GOTM, I recall sending camels threes spaces away & getting 8g (yes, yes I know, but I wanted a trade arrow…(too ashamed to admit a typo!). On the other hand, I delivered a number of trucks, getting 1435 for demanded goods & 574 for undemanded goods -- for ten turns at the end of the game, 3-5 trucks per turn were rewarded with an advance per turn. Granted it was all the good stuff -- foreign civ, 80 spaces (about half of the world), and a different rock, all from the SSC, but no airports or superhighways yet.

If you must make a choice to have a terrific trade setup or a SSC, go with the trade -- an advance per turn is better than an advance per 2-3 turns. But then again, if you have a terrific trade setup -- an SSC might be part of it -- only now it is a super TRADE city (see Starlifter’s winning GOTM game in a Fundy environment.

 

[ElephantU]

I agree - go with both. Playing OCC it is a different style, though - you cannot produce piles of commodity caravans. You must choose your destination cities carefully.

Wonders-wise, I still think Colossus is first for extra Trade arrows, followed by MarcoPolo for maps and treaties with AI civs. If I'm on a small island I would then put LightHouse third, or maybe fourth after Hanging Gardens.

 

[AnarchyBoy]

I've always built the Pyramids first for two reasons: 1. Your population by the end of the game increases exponentially when you cut your food surplus needs in half. 2. The "acts as a ... in each city" wonders save you a lot of money. Each granary costs 1 gold per turn. If you build 100 of them, that's 100 gold per turn saved by the pyramids. Michalangelo saves you even more!

 

[ElephantU]

I prefer to use WLTC/PD to increase city size - gives me more control of when the cities grow than Pyramids. There are some times when I do NOT want my cities growing too fast - especially if I am barely surviving a Deity game, waiting for MikesChapel or JSB. The only place I have bought a Granary for is early-game SSC.

 

[johnnymiller]

The Pyramids rock.... literally.

Doesn't it all depend on what level you're playing on though?
You can't really say one is better than the other.... although the Pyramids get my vote.

 

[funxus]

It depends on the level and personal strategy, I'd say. My priorities have changed a lot since I started playing civ2