Favorite Wonder -Ancient

[biru biru]

I still usually play the computer, and HG is my favorite first wonder. I like to have the collossus in the same city. Pyramids can be replaced by a few granaries (which can be sold off later when the pyramids are finally captured), and a few diplomats does the trick of the great library.

@oedo: sounds pretty hard core. You are moving lots of caravans or units and you don't need crutch wonders? (Also, you are oedo of oedo years, i assume?)

 

[biru biru]

Sorry for spam: but on a small enough map it's the Great Wall all the way (albiet replaced by city walls in all cities, that new cities start with walls, plus the diplomatic effects and bonus against barbarians make it hands-down choice).

 

[Westhau]

Favorite and best are definetely different... my vote goes to Great Library. When I first got the game as a kid I loved watching the advances of science, and I additionally loved getting the sciences for free from the Great Library. I still build it now, and take advantage of it by witholding research from some primitive techs that I know I will get soon.

 

[hpwarlord]

I would have to say that compared to other eras, this is one of the closer races. I had a hard time choosing, but voted for THE GREAT WALL on the basis of a recent game. I used GW in conjuction with Sun Tzu's to pursue an early military campaign. First of all, having the GW prevents potential rivals from acquiring it and minimizing the value of ST. The automatic City Walls in the cities you conquer is a tremendous boon to your war effort. And having total control over whether you are at war at not (generally you are in a government conducive to war at this point) is also nice

 

[Strato]

Gotta love the pyramids!

Just need to be careful on emp or deity..

 

[Metathron]

I went with the Colossus, as I appreciate the revenue it generates.

 

[#1 Person]

I stand firm with the Pyramids, Collosus can only bring in a maximum of 20 trade signs, so you can only have a bonus of 20 gold. Which, although nice, doesn't out-compete the advantages of a wonder that you will always have (less the city gets captured) that gives you a free granary.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Collosus can only bring in a maximum of 20 trade signs, so you can only have a bonus of 20 gold.

WRONG!

First, those 20 extra trade arrows factor into the calculation of the value of trade routes, so in a well developed trade city (which is where the colossus would be) they can add about another 10-12 arrows on top of the 20 on the ground in the early to mid game.

Then, since that wonder is typically built in a well developed city, those 20 arrows get the benefit of improvements present. So with a stock exchange and 3 trade routes, those 30-some arrows becomes 75g/turn. In an SSC improvements and wonders give you 6x beakers for a majority of the game which would give 180b/turn or so. Later in the game superhighways further increase the value of those increased trade routes and a research lab pushes the rate up to 8x beakers, so towards the end of its run, the colossus can be worth several hundred beakers per turn.

That doesn't even begin to address the way it helps that particular city thrive and grow through its extra trade boosting happiness and prolonging celebrations.

I don't think it is the best of the ancient wonders, but to write it off that you "only have 20g/turn" from it is not an accurate characterization at all.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Very well said, Tim.

While Pyramids is a great wonder and the only one of the ancients that does not expire, its value depends quite a bit on your strategy. The fewer cities you have and the more time you spend in Republic/Democracy the less its value.

Another observation about Pyramids is that you can let someone else build it and then take that city and reap the benefits. You cannot do that with Colossus, or any of the other science city improvements, as their value depends greatly on being together in the right city.

 

[sethos]

A good SSC produces 800-1200 beakers a turn, an excellent SSC 1200-1800 (and maybe some more).

With a well-developped SSC, you can switch much earlier to republic and demo.
Population growth should come from "we love"-days, not from granaries (or pyramids).

Building the Great Library will slow down your own research.

 

[Kessey]

I usually get the Great Wall ASAP. It's not my favorite (I don't believe I have one), but I don't like being forced to sign treaties.


Take care,

Jay

 

[#1 Person]

WRONG!

First, those 20 extra trade arrows factor into the calculation of the value of trade routes, so in a well developed trade city (which is where the colossus would be) they can add about another 10-12 arrows on top of the 20 on the ground in the early to mid game.

Then, since that wonder is typically built in a well developed city, those 20 arrows get the benefit of improvements present. So with a stock exchange and 3 trade routes, those 30-some arrows becomes 75g/turn. In an SSC improvements and wonders give you 6x beakers for a majority of the game which would give 180b/turn or so. Later in the game superhighways further increase the value of those increased trade routes and a research lab pushes the rate up to 8x beakers, so towards the end of its run, the colossus can be worth several hundred beakers per turn.

That doesn't even begin to address the way it helps that particular city thrive and grow through its extra trade boosting happiness and prolonging celebrations.

I don't think it is the best of the ancient wonders, but to write it off that you "only have 20g/turn" from it is not an accurate characterization at all.

Ah... you got me...

I have doubts that you will find yourself with super-highways and not flight, however.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Ah... you got me...

I have doubts that you will find yourself with super-highways and not flight, however.

Colossus or not, I will generally delay flight as long as humanly possible because of the decrease in Delivery bonuses it brings. I will especially delay it if I have the Colossus in my SSC because it also cancels the wonder. Similarly I will rush to Auto as soon as possible just to get the superhighways. In a decent sized trade city (10-12 citizens able to work trade squares), SH will usually pay for themselves with the increased delivery bonus for one moderately distant foreign van delivery before flight. After that, the extra trade and increased route values are just gravy.

With Colossus (especially in OCC) I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't have SH in that city before flight. The only time I might delay Auto a few techs is if I also have Leo and have a key upgrade I want to get in before it expires (typically Espionage or Tactics) but even then, I would still go for Auto before Flight. But even with Leo, it isn't usually cost effective. If you get the SH's early, you'll probably be getting a tech per turn and can just zip on past Tactics and get to Mobile Warfare and Robotics a few turns later and laugh at the cavalry you would have had if you upgraded your horses.

It's about having priorities and I would put increased arrows and increased deliver bonuses (auto/SH) ahead of decreased arrows from the cancelled Colossus and decreased delivery bonuses (Flight) every time.

 

[ElephantU]

I also delay Flight as long as possible in order to preserve Colossus in my SSC/STC/OCC. I've got a couple "critical tech paths" mapped out to get to Auto as quickly as possible, as SuperHighways both adds trade arrows and multiplies trade routes. I often try to get through NF/NP/Las before I start "final approach" Fli/Rad/Adv/Roc/Spa. This is all in Landing games, though; I'd prioritize things differently if I was going for early Conquest or high score.

 

[Rowan]

I've allways gone for the Pyramid.

 

[starlifter]

If improperly used, as is the case with many people, the Colossus can be next to worthless. Combined with Hanging Gardens, they can do things that no other wonders can duplicate. They make the GL practically obsolete. And about 50% of the time, I can get to Theology so fast that Oracle is never built by any civ (at diety)... so Oracle is often so "worthless" that its only worth 20 points. Similarly, the Great Wall, while rarely obsoleted before construction, can be made to have such a short lifespan as to be wasteful to even consider.

The expiration of Colossus is essentially irrelevant, as the damage done to the AI happens long before Flight, or even RR (the HG expire time). When the AI is struggling along with a size 6 or 7 city, and your size 19 or 20 trading center has 70 or 80 arrows, even a new city will be a significant trading partner. If you get a hides repeater, whoah!

When your Stealth Fighters are cutting through enemy Phalanx and even warriors, your will likely be thanking Colossus for the matchup.


BTW, Pyramids are not essential, in part because their effect is not unique, and in part because of the very reason they do not expire... simply hunt them down and take them. City location is irrelvant; hold them and you get their benefit. Not so with Col+HG. Those must be chosen carefully for maximum effect!

 

[Millman]

So are we voting for our personal favorite Wonder or the one we think is best overall?

 

[Titi]

The "favorite wonders" polls are per era: ancient, industrial, etc...
I don't think there was one for the overall "best" wonder, but it's been a long time since I checked!

 

[Millman]

Ok, here's what I do since I've always played at a high level.

Build pyramids, great library, leo's workshop, j.s. bach's and gardens if I can, I don't want my opponents getting any of those, sometimes I let the gardens go if I get lucky and get monotheism for the cathedral.

You basically don't want them to have the library at any cost. For later game the U.N., the suffurage for when I finally have to fight, and I probably missed one.

I will list the ones I mentioned as the critical ones for my gameplay.

Although if you haven't done it yet, someone should try a Wonderless GotM. Or play a normal game not building wonders. I'm sure there are some where you've limited the wonders you can build.

 

[starlifter]

Although if you haven't done it yet, someone should try a Wonderless GotM.

In the current GOTM (68), I would expect the Gold Star (fastest finisher) to likely do a Wonderless GOTM. They might build one or 2 for points, but none are necessary to play and win the quickest elimination. I'm not sure if a Wonderless GOTM has been done before... you should suggest it in the GOTM forum, maybe even make a poll. Sounds fun (e.g., would be different and probably even annoying to play, which is a good thing ) to me, depending on the level. Would you let the AI build them, or destroy all of them from the outset?