Favorite Wonder -Ancient

[sethos]

The first - and best! - ancient wonder is The Hanging Gardens. If I can't get it, my
2nd choice is Colossus, 3rd Lighthouse. Pyramids? My population will grow by celebration in Republic ord demo. Pyramids will cause more happiness problems if your civ grows. Great Wall? I don't fear barbs. They may take some of my cities, but these are cheap to rebribe. Great Library? I don't want to slow down my research - Marco Polo's is much better. Oracle expires too fast. When I get monotheism, I build Mike's, then I switch to Republic and go to feudalism and theology (I want to build Sun Tzu's and J.S. Bach's). So I'm well prepared for democracy.
Most of my cities build caravans (for trade or wonder building), some are building market places, later aqueducts and coliseums. So I have a handful of well developped
cities when I trade for some techs. For it's sometimes hard to build several wonders
parallel (e.g. Magellan's, Leonardo's, Adam Smith's).

 

[spammikone]

Colossus. That extra trade at start of the game is VERY helpful. And it doesn't expire too early.

 

[bouncelot]

Colossus. That extra trade at start of the game is VERY helpful. And it doesn't expire too early.

Yeah, but' it's only in one city. For those of us who prefer empire-wide effects to the SSC, it's one to avoid. And early wonders eat up a lot of resources that could be used for expansion. Which is why I like the Pyramids, they cost a fair bit, but pay you back in terms of faster expansion, thus giving you a very good return on your investment in a fairly short space of time.

 

[Old n Slow]

Hmmmm on a similar thread I recall oedo responding with Lighthouse. I haven't achieved the level to fully enjoy that over the opportunity cost, but is still sticks in my mind.

Since I haven't stepped into the multi-player arena (yet), the GL is less the attraction. I have yet to fully absorb the gains from HG (although I'm starting to discover the pains at Diety when I don't have it.) so I'll revote with the ever appreciated Colossus.

 

[sethos]

HG (+ Mikes) beat Pyramids concerning population growth. With HG you can afford an
early republic.

 

[Mike Mania]

Pyramids, for the same reasons as KingWilly.

But its better to construct Great Library, because it give a lot,lot,lot of advantage in the science.......and you dont need Pyramids to win the game.... OK?

 

[Mike Mania]

I like the Great Wall early on. I know that it eventually becomes irrelevant but it gives your civilization some great advantages over others earlier if you play very aggressively--they hate your guts but can't do anything about it

I like your opinion, but I prefer the Great Library...No in fact I prefer to build the two Wonders... dont you agree?

 

[Terrapin]

I got my first real lesson in civ2 trying to defend the GL. Here is what a bunch of posters explained to me: Each tech you get makes the next tech more expensive. So if the GL gives you a non-critical tech it makes the research you direct take longer.

 

[Stardimple]

I've voted for the Pyramids, simply for the fact that they don't expire. All of the others do expire at some point apart from the Lighthouse, which is only of any use if you are playing an island game.
One point on this though, I've noted on other threads that a lot of people think that the Great Library is useless. I personally like to try to get it simply so that the other nations don't.

 

[Terrapin]

Actually, Star, the argument against GL is that it is worse than useless!

 

[Titi]

But its better to construct Great Library, because it give a lot,lot,lot of advantage in the science.......and you dont need Pyramids to win the game.... OK?

You don't need the Great Library either!
By the way, did you take a look at what Terrapin and Stardimple said?

 

[rrhal]

I took colossus but Hanging Gardens is just as important

 

[nsomniyak]

Pyramids - for the reasons noted above, plus the following:
--conquered cities have a half-filled grain bin upon capture (if they were more than half full). They jump on the growth path right away.
--since your grain bin never fully empties unless you run HUNGER for many turns, you CAN run your cities with a unit or two of HUNGER for awhile when you really need to optomize for shields and rush production of a unit, wonder, improvement or caravan. What a wonderful cushion--sort of like "deficit spending"! Doing this often allows me to win the race for a key wonder. This is a HUGE benefit
--I don't have to spend a cent on Granaries. Ever. I build LOTS of cities, the cost of Pyramids is FAR less than outfitting even half my cities with individual granaries.
--Harvesting granaries--if I get Pyramids, the opposing civs build granaries in most of their cities. Most every AI city of a certain size (5? 6?) or more WILL have a granary in it. When I capture these cities, I can sell the now-superfluous Granary for an instant 80 gold with no negative consequence to the city at all. You get a similar effect with Great Wall and not building City Walls, but GW expires and sometimes I need those City Walls I capture late in the game after GW has run out (Metallurgy). Some peaceful AI civs don't build City Walls, but almost every Civ builds granaries if they don't get Pyramids. I easily capture and sell enough granaries to pay for Pyramids many times over (granted, cash late in the game is not the same as cash early on when you are building Pyramids).
--many times the AI civs will abandon their wonder project if they are building Pyramids and I beat them to it. Some will switch to Great Wall, others don't, and many times the AIs abandon their wonder due to not having the requisite tech for the other early wonders (i.e. Map Making for Lighthouse), so I trigger a significant "waste" in the opponent AI civs early on.

 

[nsomniyak]

Pyramids - for the reasons noted above, plus the following:
--conquered cities have a half-filled grain bin upon capture (if they were more than half full). They jump on the growth path right away.
--since your grain bin never fully empties unless you run HUNGER for many turns, you CAN run your cities with a unit or two of HUNGER for awhile when you really need to optomize for shields and rush production of a unit, wonder, improvement or caravan. What a wonderful cushion--sort of like "deficit spending"! Doing this often allows me to win the race for a key wonder. This is a HUGE benefit
--I don't have to spend a cent on Granaries. Ever. I build LOTS of cities, the cost of Pyramids is FAR less than outfitting even half my cities with individual granaries.
--Harvesting granaries--if I get Pyramids, the opposing civs build granaries in most of their cities. Most every AI city of a certain size (5? 6?) or more WILL have a granary in it. When I capture these cities, I can sell the now-superfluous Granary for an instant 80 gold with no negative consequence to the city at all. You get a similar effect with Great Wall and not building City Walls, but GW expires and sometimes I need those City Walls I capture late in the game after GW has run out (Metallurgy). Some peaceful AI civs don't build City Walls, but almost every Civ builds granaries if they don't get Pyramids. I easily capture and sell enough granaries to pay for Pyramids many times over (granted, cash late in the game is not the same as cash early on when you are building Pyramids).
--many times the AI civs will abandon their wonder project if they are building Pyramids and I beat them to it. Some will switch to Great Wall, others don't, and many times the AIs abandon their wonder due to not having the requisite tech for the other early wonders (i.e. Map Making for Lighthouse), so I trigger a significant "waste" in the opponent AI civs early on.
--IF an AI civ should beat me to Pyramids, I can switch immediately to Great Wall, as the same tech (Masonry) is the pre-req for each. SInce I would never abandon a wonder (instead I would keep building until my tech advanced to open up another wonder) this is not as big a positive for me as it is negative above for the AIs, but I do have the opportunity to complete another wonder with just shield generation rather than requiring both shield generation and research. On balance I get my alternate wonder sooner than if I first build a Wonder (i.e. Lighthouse) that is the only wonder enabled by a given technology.

 

[Titi]

Aren't granaries worth 60 gold?

 

[nsomniyak]

it's free money.

 

[Titi]

it's free money.

That's right... Police stations too when you have Women's Suffrage!

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

Once all 5 are together in a row that will be cool.

 

[rrhal]

Pyramids is really much better very early or very late. I let someone else build it and then take it from them as the game progresses.

Generally I have problems with my cities growing too fast making it difficult to keep them happy. Hanging Gardens seems to be a better deal for early growth.

 

[Jacen_Fel]

Hands down it would have to be the pyramids for me... growing 2x as fast makes everything else improve faster too .