Fear of perfection.

[zjintz]

I have a question that arise thinking about some topics in this forum : Singularity, robots taking our jobs, AI, fountain of youth, extending your life..

Is perfection desirable?

Take chess for example; what if in the future we can expand our brain abilities by artificial means and we can learn how to play chess in a perfect way far better than Kasparov just by pluggin something in our brain. What would be fun about playing chess?. Don't you think that may kill chess?. (like tic tac toe after some time.)

What about perfect inmortal lives?. Is so hard for me find what would be the point of that.

 

[Sveon]

Perfection is only a threat to those who fear it

 

[Antilogic]

Is perfection desirable?

Well, at least the only thing you seriously have to worry about is Perfection posting in this thread.

Real perfection is impossible to obtain, and it's not always helpful. You could take into account relativity while doing basic kinematics, but it doesn't significantly affect the outcome. With a big enough computer, you could grind through millions of wavefunctions to do your physics or chemistry experiment, but you could just run an ordinary imperfect experiment and be just fine.

Perfection is such an unrealistic and impractical thing that you really don't have to fear it.

 

[Perfection]

Perfection embraces the singularity and the coming of our Giant Death Robot overlords.

 

[zjintz]

Well, at least the only thing you seriously have to worry about is Perfection posting in this thread.

Real perfection is impossible to obtain, and it's not always helpful. You could take into account relativity while doing basic kinematics, but it doesn't significantly affect the outcome. With a big enough computer, you could grind through millions of wavefunctions to do your physics or chemistry experiment, but you could just run an ordinary imperfect experiment and be just fine.

Perfection is such an unrealistic and impractical thing that you really don't have to fear it.

I gues I didn't myself clear.

do you know this story?: “When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer” -Plutarch

Is something like that kind of feeling.

 

[Narz]

I have a question that arise thinking about some topics in this forum : Singularity, robots taking our jobs, AI, fountain of youth, extending your life..

Is perfection desirable?

Take chess for example; what if in the future we can expand our brain abilities by artificial means and we can learn how to play chess in a perfect way far better than Kasparov just by pluggin something in our brain. What would be fun about playing chess?. Don't you think that may kill chess?. (like tic tac toe after some time.)

What about perfect inmortal lives?. Is so hard for me find what would be the point of that.

Well life is fun so if we could live forever in perfect health that would be fun. Imagine being 19 again but with the brain of a wisened 1,000 year old. Youth wouldn't be wasted on the young the 2nd time around that's for sure!

As for chess, if all that science-fi stuff comes to fruition in my lifetime (which I highly doubt) and I get my already awesome self upgraded to an enhanced ( ) cyborg-Narz which can compute a zillion moves a second I can always turn that part of my brain off if I wanted to & play chess without it.

Anyway, with all the problems we face in the future having to be forever young & computer-enhanced is not exactly something that keeps me up nights.

 

[Narz]

I gues I didn't myself clear.

do you know this story?: “When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer” -Plutarch

Is something like that kind of feeling.

There are always no avenues to conquer, to feel otherwise is simply to lack imagination.

I got another quote for you, "The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know and the more I realize I don't know, the more I want to learn" (from Einstein I think, probably paraphrased).

It's not like computers know all the answers to the world's questions, the whole point of computers is to help us answer them but also to pose new questions we hadn't even thought to ask before (they're probably not much good for that yet but will be if society doesn't cave in).

Knowledge doesn't take the fun out of living, it adds to it if you can apply it well.

 

[zjintz]

As for chess, if all that science-fi stuff comes to fruition in my lifetime (which I highly doubt) and I get my already awesome self upgraded to an enhanced ( ) cyborg-Narz which can compute a zillion moves a second I can always turn that part of my brain off if I wanted to & play chess without it.

Anyway, with all the problems we face in the future having to be forever young & computer-enhanced is not exactly something that keeps me up nights.

Lol
what would be the point of playing against other supercyborg if he knows what you know?. And what would be the point of playing without it?.

 

[MjM]

I do not fear perfection, we play uno on occasion actually.

 

[Narz]

Lol
what would be the point of playing against other supercyborg if he knows what you know?. And what would be the point of playing without it?.

I would enter human only tournaments (or humans with their cyborg-chip turned off for the duration).

The point of playing without it is that it's fun to think on your own. Same reason I try to remember what/who/when/why people places & events are on my own first before running to wiki to double check.

 

[stormerne]

I can't help being reminded of this cartoon - about perfection equaling getting things right first time...
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-01-15/

 

[zjintz]

I would enter human only tournaments (or humans with their cyborg-chip turned off for the duration).

The point of playing without it is that it's fun to think on your own. Same reason I try to remember what/who/when/why people places & events are on my own first before running to wiki to double check.

so you agree?, being the perfect chess player is not fun. What is fun is facing a imperfect player being a imperfect player yourself.



Link to video.

After 2:10, The way I see: killing the game.

 

[choxorn]

Perfection is only a pentagon, there is nothing to fear from it.

 

[GenMarshall]

Perfection is only a pentagon, there is nothing to fear from it.

Unless he's an anthropomorphic brick and mortar pentagon .

 

[Souron]

If we solve chess, we can find harder, more complex games to play. Solve those, and make even more complex games.

 

[zjintz]

you got it!.

What if we solve life?. A perfect inmortal life.. game over?.

 

[Narz]

It's very unlikely chess will be solved within our lifetime.

Checkers however has been solved & people still play checkers.

The nerd fantasy that computers will, in the near future, acquire perfect knowledge of everything is more religious style faith than anything. Computers will always be merely tools in the human arsenal.

Calculators haven't killed math or replaced mathematicians, they're merely an aid.

Personally, I think we humans need as much help as we can get. The only way I believe we can even survive as a species is with the help of intelligence & perspective greater than our own (or if everyone was as open & receptive to ecological change as me). Computers should not be feared, we probably will need them to help us correct course.

 

[Souron]

you got it!.

What if we solve life?. A perfect inmortal life.. game over?.

If we figure out how to have happy fulfilling lives for everyone, that would be great, but there would still be plenty to do and solve.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I think it's more fear about an overestimation of the good nature of humans, about their progressiveness and overall ambitiousness. The Nazis did what they could to achieve their view of perfection and they used the science of their time to do it.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Perfection has already ruined Civ 5 with Giant Death Robots. Every day I shudder what he'll do to Civ 6.