[Feature] Additional Wonders

[Leoreth]

All those small pagodas seem a bit excessive. I think even the improved centre piece would be great.

 

[Panopticon]

Wow, many of these are really good.

 

[merijn_v1]

Welcome to the forum, great you're enjoying the mod.

Does RFCE have a model for it? Whatever they're using is really low poly and low res so it was impossible to tell if it resembles any real life building.

Very low quality unfortunately.

Spoiler :

View attachment 500652

With a better model, do you consider including it?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, but I'm also not fully convinced on the effect. Everything that has been suggested so far was too complicated in my opinion.

Maybe it should be just something like +2 gold for Jewish religious buildings?

 

[Leoreth]

By the way, a while ago there was some discussion regarding the Kremlin and Saint Basil's Cathedral and their effects, any further ideas in that direction?

 

[BenZL43]

I created a new version of the Prambanan. PR?

Spoiler :

Based on:

Spoiler :

I think just the centerpiece is sufficient. Not all the mini candi-s (pagodas) are well-excavated.
Last time I went there (2003), I don't remember seeing that many small pagodas though.
Iirc, those are speculated based on many small structural stones littering around the main temples.

EDIT: Turns out I was wrong. There are many small pagodas now

Spoiler :

well, I was 7 years old haha

 

[Leoreth]

New update:
- Amber Room obsoletes with Power Projection
- adjust wonder build costs
- added and adjusted wonder construct sounds
- fixed a crash

 

[Steb]

By the way, a while ago there was some discussion regarding the Kremlin and Saint Basil's Cathedral and their effects, any further ideas in that direction?

How about this:

• Move the +2 espionage effect per religious building from St. Sophia to Hagia Sophia* (early espionage fits the Byzantines better than Russia, and Russia gets an espionage-themed wonder later, Lubyanka)
• Move the +1 production per religious building from Hagia Sophia to St. Basil's Cathedral (more production would be useful for Russia when building infrastructure in faraway cities)
• Move the +25% defense in all cities, +1 move for civilian units effect from St. Basil to the new Kremlin** wonder (available at gunpowder or some other tech in that column, requires orthodoxy, grants great statesman points)

That leaves St. Sophia without an effect. A possibility would be to give it the +1 move for civilian effects (and maybe give a free statesman or priest to the Kremlin to compensate). I don't know much about the Kievan Rus''s*** history, so I'm not sure what would work. Something to do with trade with other Orthodox civs, like extra yield from trade routes that share a state religion? I personally wouldn't be opposed to replacing it with some other wonder, like the Golden Gate idea that was suggested.

* These two wonders basically have the same name and that will definitely pose a translation problem. In French they would both be "Sainte-Sophie". We could distinguish them according to basilica/cathedral status I guess.
** Maybe that's too restrictive, but would it be good to prevent a city from having both the Kremlin and the Theodosian Walls?
*** How the hell does one put the possessive 's after a word ending with s'

 

[Logoncal]

This branch has a problem: Iran respawned as Persia, which meant it respawned with the same starting situtation as Persia, meaning that it started on the Classical Era in the 1500s

If this happened then this means that Mexico will respawn as the Aztecs and Colombia will respawn as the Maya. Oof

Here's my save for the bug

 

[Finbros]

By the way, a while ago there was some discussion regarding the Kremlin and Saint Basil's Cathedral and their effects, any further ideas in that direction?

Variant 1:
- SBC: +1 to civilian units move, priest slots can be used as statesman ones (or just "temples and cathedrals of state religion provide 1 statesman slot")
- Kremlin: +25% to defense in all cities, +5 XP to siege units, huge GPP (Statesman) bonus.

Var.2:
- SBC: +2 to espionage per religious building
- Kremlin: +25% to city defense in all cities, +1 to civilian units move
- Saint Sophia Cathedral: defeated barbarian units create culture.in nearest cities.

 

[Leoreth]

This branch has a problem: Iran respawned as Persia, which meant it respawned with the same starting situtation as Persia, meaning that it started on the Classical Era in the 1500s

If this happened then this means that Mexico will respawn as the Aztecs and Colombia will respawn as the Maya. Oof

Here's my save for the bug

I'm pretty sure this is a general bug, but noted.

 

[merijn_v1]

The Ukrainian land is famous for the very fertile chernozem soil, already during the Kievan Rus' period. Maybe the St. Sophia wonder could be tied to that. Something like a food bonus for trade routes or another food related bonus. (I kinda like the food bonus to feature X for a Kievan Rus' wonder)

EDIT: What about +2 food to city tile. (Similar like my Zimbabwe UP/Great Zimbabwe wonder) I think this is quite thematic with the fertile soil.

It's not really fitting for the religious theme of the wonder, but it does fit the Kievan Rus' theme of the wonder well.

A side effect (not necessarily for the St. Sophia, but it does fit it well): Monasteries don't expire.

 

[1SDANi]

How the hell does one put the possessive 's after a word ending with s'

In English if a word ends with an s and a possessive 's is to be applied to it, the ending s is dropped from the possessive 's.

Example: The feelings of Gus. Gus' feelings.

 

[merijn_v1]

steb was talking about the specific case when a word ends with an apostrophe. Kieven Rus' is the name, not the possessive. (Or maybe it is also the possessive. I don't know)

 

[1SDANi]

steb was talking about the specific case when a word ends with an apostrophe. Kieven Rus' is the name, not the possessive. (Or maybe it is also the possessive. I don't know)

Oh, my bad. I'm not certain about that then.

 

[Finbros]

The Ukrainian land is famous for the very fertile chernozem soil, already during the Kievan Rus' period. Maybe the St. Sophia wonder could be tied to that.

There is some problem with tying SSC to Kievan area:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_St._Sophia,_Novgorod
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sophia_Cathedral_in_Polotsk

 

[Leoreth]

People tie it to Kiev because the model is specifically Saint Sophia's Cathedral in Kiev.

 

[Leoreth]

Also, something that I'd really like to model in the mod is how the center of Orthodoxy transitioned from Constantinople to Moscow after the former was conquered and the Tsardom consolidated. This is similar to how in previous versions the Catholic holy city could move to the city with the Apostolic Palace.

I think it makes sense to have a Russian wonder with the following attributes:
- current Orthodox holy city is not controlled by a Christian civilisation
- (moves Orthodox holy city to Moscow)
- the wonder acts like the Orthodox shrine
- old Orthodox shrine expires

This of course would have worked better in the past where the Orthodox holy city was Constantinople, not Jerusalem. It seems wrong to not have Jerusalem as a Christian holy city though. Maybe the holy city itself should not move but the wonder would replace its function as a shrine. The Christian community in the modern era doesn't really justify this economic income anymore, and it would have the welcome side effect of weakening the Ottomans at roughly the right time historically.

The reason why I am speaking about the new wonder abstractly is that both Saint Basil's Cathedral and the Kremlin could take this role. The Cathedral would be more fitting and my preference because it has a more overtly religious nature, on the other hand the Russian Orthodox patriarch actually resides in a Church in the Kremlin.

Regardless of this thought I also like the previous suggestions, I will think about it some more.

 

[Finbros]

Something representing autocephaly of Orthodox churches?
I don't think that relocation of holy city is good idea: don't think that Moscow can be called as the worldwide center of Orthodoxy anytime. All of this "Third Rome" thing was mostly for internal affairs, and authority of Constantinople, Jerusalem or another Ancient Patriarchate was never disputed. ROC counts as fifth in Ortodox ranks.
But additional shrines that steal Jerusalem money probably will be reasonable.

Why not to make this as a project?
"Translatio Imperii": needs Orthodoxy as state religion, available if all of Orthodox shrines are under control of non-Orthodox civilization and between, probably, Theology and Civil Liberties.
Effects: spawns "Seat of the Patriarchate" national wonder in capital: minor shrine, provides up to +10 gold to owner, excludes cities of owner from "major" shrine (that is still in Jerusalem).

So Byzantium will build it after loss of Jerusalem, and Moscow - after fall of Constantinople.
Some alt-historical possbitilies include first build by Rome/Egypt/Phoenicia (Orthodoxy founded not in conquered area, and this civ is alive in Medieval - nothing bad, just another Ancient Patriarchate will form Ecumenical Church) or HRE/France if Catholicism founded lately, but Russia will steal it nevertheless after they'll convert to Catholicism. And Third Rome in Addis-Abeba will be awesome too.

The reason why I am speaking about the new wonder abstractly is that both Saint Basil's Cathedral and the Kremlin could take this role. The Cathedral would be more fitting and my preference because it has a more overtly religious nature, on the other hand the Russian Orthodox patriarch actually resides in a Church in the Kremlin.

Kremlin, probably, is bad idea, can't think about it another than a strictly secular wonder.

 

[merijn_v1]

The reason why I am speaking about the new wonder abstractly is that both Saint Basil's Cathedral and the Kremlin could take this role. The Cathedral would be more fitting and my preference because it has a more overtly religious nature, on the other hand the Russian Orthodox patriarch actually resides in a Church in the Kremlin.

I think of the Kremlin as the government of Russia. So I would say it is much more a civil wonder than a religious wonder. (I wouldn't even call it a religious wonder at all. But that can also be due to lack of knowledge)

BTW, the current residence of the Russian Orthodox Patriarch is the Danilov Monastery, which is not inside the Kremlin. (Since 1983. I don't know about the residence before that)

Given this, I would link the transition of Orthodoxy to the St. Basil Cathedral. And give the Kremlin the civil bonus the St. Basil Cathedral currently has.