Civsassin
Immortal
They are certainly making it more difficult with the last and this upcoming patch, but it it still possible with the right policies and wonders.
FEB 2011 Patch Details
- Thread starter swordspider
- Start date
They are certainly making it more difficult with the last and this upcoming patch, but it it still possible with the right policies and wonders.
i_imperator
Imperator
After reading this I think im going to uninstall civ V and stick with IV and III.
Seriously, perhaps you can make the argument that a baseline of 3 F for a fish is too strong but to take it down to the same as a non-fish tile...
Fish now: 3 
base, one more from lighthouse, total of 4 .
Fish after patch: 1 base, one more from fishing boat, two more from lighthouse, total of 4 . Gold reduced.
Makes sense. I never did have much incentive to get the lighthouse early, usually it was left until some point where it was a one turn research.
base, one more from lighthouse, total of 4 .Fish after patch: 1
base, one more from fishing boat, two more from lighthouse, total of 4 . Gold reduced.Makes sense. I never did have much incentive to get the lighthouse early, usually it was left until some point where it was a one turn research.
I guess the idea being is that the fish have to be caught. The fish are not just going to hop up into your frying pan on their own.
I am not sure about all these changes, especially for people who only play to a certain era. It also seems to me they did not look at the shortcomings of the tactical AI. It is no fun going into battle because the AI cannot hold its own against a human player. I was wondering if anyone out there has ever been beaten by the AI. I have heard of some people losing a city, I am among them, the problem is I had no problem gaining back the lost city on the outer fringe of my empire, and crushing the AI army with ease. The other thing I was thinking about, is how these new intricate changes will effect the AI and it's strategy and empire building?
noncognosco
Warlord
I posted this on the other thread but: city centers now only produce one production. Is that in addition to the production from that terrain type? In other words, does a city center on a hill give more than one production? If so, when is it better to build on a hill for that extra production and when is it better to build on flat land for the buffed windmill?
DaveMcW
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Messages
- 6,484
Yes, the city center already benefits from the 3-production tiles so I expect it will be the same.
The decision is based on whether you can get a winning advantage before Windmills.
Fish now: 3
Fish after patch: 1
Makes sense. I never did have much incentive to get the lighthouse early, usually it was left until some point where it was a one turn research.
Oh, I guess I misunderstood... I thought it was saying that they only would produce two food...
So, in that case, this makes sense...
I guess the idea being is that the fish have to be caught. The fish are not just going to hop up into your frying pan on their own.
I am not sure about all these changes, especially for people who only play to a certain era. It also seems to me they did not look at the shortcomings of the tactical AI. It is no fun going into battle because the AI cannot hold its own against a human player. I was wondering if anyone out there has ever been beaten by the AI. I have heard of some people losing a city, I am among them, the problem is I had no problem gaining back the lost city on the outer fringe of my empire, and crushing the AI army with ease. The other thing I was thinking about, is how these new intricate changes will effect the AI and it's strategy and empire building?
Yeah, looks like I misunderstood the changes... it'll still be 4 F eventually, it just takes more to get there... and yeah, I always thought it was weird how boats didn't affect the F output but rather the G...
jdog5000
Revolutionary
Fish now: 3
Fish after patch: 1
Makes sense. I never did have much incentive to get the lighthouse early, usually it was left until some point where it was a one turn research.
Pretty sure:
Fish after patch: 2
base (one for ocean, one for fish resource), one more from fishing boat, two more from lighthouse, total of 5 . Gold starts a 1, up to 2 with Compass and fishing boat.You could say grain is a 1F resource, but that means it adds 1F to the tile. Same should apply to fish. Fish are actually better once you build boats and lighthouse.
swordspider
Dread Multiplayer
Moral of the story is they put a huge crunch on ICSing whether you want to believe it or not.
I think that will be great for the game, to promote vertical building over sprawl.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,332
People said that after the last patch and they were wrong.
If you are correct, Aqueducts will be the cause.
Civsassin
Immortal
That's incorrect. ICS will always be possible. It just won't be as dominant a strategy as it was before the patch. They are equalizing vertical and horizontal expansion strategies similarly to what the specialist economy did in CiIV. Players could run specialist and cottage economies equally well, providing two excellent and approximately equal strategies, not including the hybrid approaches many took.
Read the patch notes; balance is the objective and correctly so. If there is one dominant approach, the game would get boring pretty quickly.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Those are specifically bonus tiles... I think "City" is like "Forest" ie something with specific production that overrides terrain
so "City" is being changed from 2,2,1, to 2,1,0
I expect a city on a hill to be the same as a city on a grassland... an Iron city would probably be 2.2 though (just like a river city would be 2.1.1 or a Banana city 3.1.0)
grandad1982
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2007
- Messages
- 2,552
Does the nerfed gold from tiles make Merchant specs more powerfull early game? Also does this boost GMerch? I guess the answer is yes but how much?
MadDjinn
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 4,554
probably would make them more useful early game. Of course, they also moved a spec from the bank/UB to the Stock Exchange. A building I've come to despise given it's cost/hammer time. (gold cities do not have 20+ turns to build that thing once you can make it)
You could always buy a Stock Exchange. Gold->hammer conversion rates aren't that bad for later buildings and you can easily work out how quickly it will be paid back.
Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets adjusted in an upcoming patch. Most of the balance fixes in this patch are up to the Rennaissance, with little in the Industrial or Modern eras. But there is little point in doing a balance sweep on the later half of the game when the first half of the game isn't properly balanced yet.
Coastal starts were pretty good. Fish with 3
/1
is the best possible unimproved tile to work as your first tile (only riverside Cattle and riverside Grassland Wheat give the same), and typically you start next to one and can get another one as your first expansion tile.
A monument first(after scout probably or a worker) may have some nice impact if i don't discover a culture ruin very fast. Because i think the settler bonus is from a second policy(free settler as well?). Not sure. Expanding early and rapidly is important in multi and i think an early monument will save my ass in some future games.
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