Feedback thread

[Pfeffersack]

- no introduction text, when meeting the smax/expansion era factions (the part of the diplo-window where it should stand is empty)

- The Transcendence Victory seems nearly impossible to me. Even in my (immortal) game where my hybrid gaians owned half the world, having Pholusmutagen and building communes like mad, the flowering counter was only high in the forties, when I was able to build the subspace generator. Normally you get pholus mutagen perhaps 30 till 50 rounds before you could achieve singularity mechanics if you beeline to it. I think thats too late to get the flowering counter high enough making transcendence victory a real choice.

The text issue is on the To-Do list as well as fine-balancing the Transcendence victory.

- Is wealth (value) considered to work like it does at the moment? You lose -35% military production. Thats huge but on the other hand you get +25 % prod to everything, means only -10 % for military units. Wealth seems to good in comparison to the other values. (perhaps -50 % military would be better).

It is working as you described and intended that way; though I agree that the strength of the penalty is debatable.

- I don't like the new system with the Air Evacuation units. It leads to cities with extreme production (cities with 5-10 pop, but 15 free technicians and genejack factory). Can lead to the strange situation that you take a city from the enemy but strengthen his production capacity.

Look forward to the next version

- One think i did not understand is why native units are always attacked first when a stack is attacked? Example: I have a walker specialised for garrison in city with some promotions and a mind worm on a city field. An enemy unit is attacking. The attacker would be nearly chanceless against the garrison walker, but the native unit is always attacked first an often killed. Why?

Save the possibility of a bug, there are three possible cases where I could imagine this happening with intention:

1) Your opponent attacks you with a native unit having the Psychic Terror morphose.
Then the usual rule of "strongest defender" is changed to the opposite - he will attack the wekest unit in the stack
2) The same can happen in sea bases, when an enemy ship with the precision special attacks
3) There might be cases in which the attacking unit forces a PSI combat (Native Life unit, Psion) in which your mindworm might be actually the better defender (it would be 2:3 against you with both units, if the attacks happens on land, but the mindworm might have morphoses helping him in combat, while the garrison ability isn't applied (? - unsure here) or in case of the Psion, the attacker might have special abilities vs. the unit class of the walker (Infantry, no that uncommon)

The further examine the cause, a save would be helpful (from the point you have to hit turn end to make that fight happen) or at least more details (which unit attacked, which special abilities/morphoses/promotions had both sides)

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

- One think i did not understand is why native units are always attacked first when a stack is attacked? Example: I have a walker specialised for garrison in city with some promotions and a mind worm on a city field. An enemy unit is attacking. The attacker would be nearly chanceless against the garrison walker, but the native unit is always attacked first an often killed. Why?
Save the possibility of a bug, there are three possible cases where I could imagine this happening with intention:

1) Your opponent attacks you with a native unit having the Psychic Terror morphose.
Then the usual rule of "strongest defender" is changed to the opposite - he will attack the wekest unit in the stack
2) The same can happen in sea bases, when an enemy ship with the precision special attacks
3) There might be cases in which the attacking unit forces a PSI combat (Native Life unit, Psion) in which your mindworm might be actually the better defender (it would be 2:3 against you with both units, if the attacks happens on land, but the mindworm might have morphoses helping him in combat, while the garrison ability isn't applied (? - unsure here) or in case of the Psion, the attacker might have special abilities vs. the unit class of the walker (Infantry, no that uncommon)

The further examine the cause, a save would be helpful (from the point you have to hit turn end to make that fight happen) or at least more details (which unit attacked, which special abilities/morphoses/promotions had both sides)

I am quite sure it happenend in all my games. I got especially aware of it in my Spartan game when I had a giant war against Morgan. I had one border town (no sea) where his main attacks were launched. I had three highly upgraded garrison walkers there, which were nearly invincible for his Mobile Infantry, Rotors and Mass Drivers. He had no native units (planetvalue -6 or worse). If he attacked, the Walkers (almost) always won, but if I had some of my few Mindworms or spore launchers in the town, they were always killed first, before the walkers were attacked, if they were attacked at all.

If get the situation again in my next game I will make a save, but im really surprised that it is no intended rule or known bug as i have seen it many times.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

If get the situation again in my next game I will make a save, but im really surprised that it is no intended rule or known bug as i have seen it many times.

I faked a situation in my actual game via worldbuilder. East of my base "outpost One" approaches the Spartan army (without native or psi units). I cheated a cyborg with many promotions and a no promotion mind worm on the field before the spartan stack. (see save "test") As you can see in the event log of save "test 2", the mind worms are killed first, before five genites bring the Cyborg down. On the other field the cyborg even survives, but the worm is long gone. Why?

 

[Pfeffersack]

I faked a situation in my actual game via worldbuilder. East of my base "outpost One" approaches the Spartan army (without native or psi units). I cheated a cyborg with many promotions and a no promotion mind worm on the field before the spartan stack. (see save "test") As you can see in the event log of save "test 2", the mind worms are killed first, before five genites bring the Cyborg down. On the other field the cyborg even survives, but the worm is long gone. Why?

I tried the first save and indeed, the mindworm defends first. I don't think that this is intended here (maybe there is also the "force PSI-combat code" at work).

 

[Maniac]

- no introduction text, when meeting the smax/expansion era factions (the part of the diplo-window where it should stand is empty)

- marines and genites looking like a red "blob" (always having the APC-specialisation)

Changed in next patch.

- The subspace win can achieved way too easy (or to early) in comparison to other victories.

I'll think about this as I play games myself that reach the end game.

- Is wealth (value) considered to work like it does at the moment? You lose -35% military production. Thats huge but on the other hand you get +25 % prod to everything, means only -10 % for military units. Wealth seems to good in comparison to the other values. (perhaps -50 % military would be better).

I rarely/ever use Wealth because it is available a tech level later than Knowledge, which I'm usually using by that time. So you have to compare the value of Knowledge versus the value of Wealth minus the cost of a turn of anarchy.

- I found it too easy to get the Planetary Datalinks in all of games (emperor-deity). Researching the fundamental techs from the fist four tiers then beelining to cybernetics and you have a very good chance of being the tech leader for the rest of the game. If there is such a powerful wonder (perhaps too powerful) the Ai's priority getting it should be higher.

I need to observe AI behaviour more to say/do more about this.

- The (midgame) infantry units seem nearly useless to me in comparison to flamethrower units. Plasma throwers are way better than Genite, Hyperion are better than InVitros if you consider the price in minerals and techs needed. Flamethrower units should be anti-native units, so why give them boni against infantry?

Personally I kinda dislike the Genite, but I do use the Marine often enough, to defend sea bases. Rather than remove the infantry bonus from flamethrower, I'd look for a way to make the Genite more interesting. Then again, the reason I added the Genite was so the player wouldn't feel forced to research High Energy Chemistry for their defense in every game, leaving you free to pursue another tech b-line. So perhaps the correct comparison is "Genite versus Impact Trooper" rather than "Genite versus Plasma Thrower".

- MagTubes should be allowed in hybrid forests.

- Spies should be always invisible to all units. (Never liked the Probe team mechanics in SMAC, think the bts civ spy system is better.)

I disagree.

- One think i did not understand is why native units are always attacked first when a stack is attacked?

I'll investigate.

 

[Maniac]

The native defense problem has been fixed for the next patch.

 

[nevill]

So, when the next patch is coming out?

 

[GeoModder]

Maniac knows.
But I gather after another testgame or two.

 

[Maniac]

QUESTION! WHAT IS THE BULL MOD?!?!?

It is a stand-alone part of the BUG interface improvement mod.

 

[Lord Tirian]

It is a stand-alone part of the BUG interface improvement mod.

Apropos BULL, couple of things:

1) Great that it's part of Planetfall now! Love it!
2) IIRC, BULL also gives longitude/latitude of a plot - after you have centred the world map. However, unlike in vanilla CivIV, there's no map-centring tech in Planetfall...
3) The "actual value" feature seems to behave a little odd for the Temple of Planet; see attached screenshot + save (v13l + my data angels cityset, but that shouldn't change anything and should work with plain v13l as well).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Selsaral]

I just downloaded this mod last night. I am extremely impressed. I'm an addicted vanilla player who finally decided to venture away from the base game.

I played ridiculous amounts of SMAC back in the day, but the pathetic AI in the original game finally made me lose interest. And civ4 came out.

I just wanted to say thanks for creating this. Extremely cool. It appears incredibly polished.

 

[nevill]

Last game I played as Spartans. When my last line of defense has fallen and I was left with a single former to defend my capital, AI decided not to capture the headquarters and fortified its units just outside of my territory.

Is there a reason to this behavior? Unlike SMAX, formers are fully considered non-combat units and cannot defend. What did stop the AI?

 

[Maniac]

2) IIRC, BULL also gives longitude/latitude of a plot - after you have centred the world map. However, unlike in vanilla CivIV, there's no map-centring tech in Planetfall...

I don't remember, but it's possible I didn't copy over that code. As far as I can tell, this would just clutter up the interface. Isn't its only use being able to see easier where you can build the Space Elevatpr?

3) The "actual value" feature seems to behave a little odd for the Temple of Planet; see attached screenshot + save (v13l + my data angels cityset, but that shouldn't change anything and should work with plain v13l as well).

*sigh* I can't figure out a formula to calculate the difference in Planet.

Last game I played as Spartans. When my last line of defense has fallen and I was left with a single former to defend my capital, AI decided not to capture the headquarters and fortified its units just outside of my territory.

Is there a reason to this behavior? Unlike SMAX, formers are fully considered non-combat units and cannot defend. What did stop the AI?

That's a bug introduced by Better AI/Lead from Behind.
Was this last game under patch k or l? The bug should have been fixed in patch l. If the game is under patch l, please attach a save.

 

[nevill]

That's a bug introduced by Better AI/Lead from Behind.
Was this last game under patch k or l? The bug should have been fixed in patch l. If the game is under patch l, please attach a save.

Patch l. Here you go.
View attachment Nevill MY-2136.CivBeyondSwordSave

Will there be a hotfix? Pretty please?

 

[Maniac]

I'm afraid I don't really understand what has happened judging from that save a couple turns after the fact. I was assuming a large stack had attacked your base and then withdrew. However I only see a single scout patrol (which has unitai_explore, and hence probably doesn't have code for attacking cities). Also I don't understand how your last line of defense could fall without losing the city. Aren't non-combat units destroyed when the last combat unit on its plot is destroyed?

In any case, there's no bug there as far as I can see. Just the exploration AI not considering the possibility of taking cities I guess.

 

[nevill]

I've fought outside of the city and lost all of my units. The headquarters were free for the taking. Yet the AI did not want to take it, even if it could do so with the scout patrol.

Perhaps the code for attacking cities could be added to scout patrols? They are combat units in their own right, it seems strange for the AI not to consider them as such.

 

[Maniac]

I'd say that's a matter for Better AI.
I've also done a test, placing a scout patrol with the city attack AI next to your HQ, and then Deirdre captured Sparta Command, causing you to lose the game (which makes me wonder why you'd want a quickfix - then you have to restart anyway ). Thus strengthening the conclusion it's the explore AI preventing base capture.

 

[nevill]

I'd say that's a matter for Better AI.
I've also done a test, placing a scout patrol with the city attack AI next to your HQ, and then Deirdre captured Sparta Command, causing you to lose the game (which makes me wonder why you'd want a quickfix - then you have to restart anyway ). Thus strengthening the conclusion it's the explore AI preventing base capture.

I want a way to lose the game early. No point in trying hard if you can't be beaten.

And the mod is mostly complete, so I thought that if there wouldn't be a hotfix, the bug will stay there for several months until the next patch is out.

 

[Slvynn]

Located some issues:

with new civ changing system it seems bit odd that you can choose any civ and not only one you "discovered"

also there is no documentation (i think so) for CoP having "Infest" promotion when others do not (or i missed it)

there is still some bug with Domai track

after switching to CoP you get no CoP era - so no cop music at city screen and CoP cities have modern era civ audio ambient (police cars etc) Oo

 

[Slvynn]

Also for missing music for Domai/Drones i have suggestion :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v4OBGIZp5c

Long time did not played Civ4 and mods and just enjoyed version 13 of Planetfall - Great Job, your advance is really nice, and.... i like how balance handled in game