Feedback: Traits

bTeam or not, war weariness is a team attribute, not a player attribute.

For games with more than 1 player per team, the other players will benefit just because these team traits are around.
Whereas those trait owners don't benefit anything from the others.

If you are playing archipelago maps, the spy slot is useless since espionage is useful only after you met someone.
By then, everyone else would have many espionage buildings anyway.

Obsolete building bonus just add to the same problem that in late era starts, it is just another useless benefit.

In short, hr is becoming balanced only for ancient era start
 
bTeam or not, war weariness is a team attribute, not a player attribute.

For games with more than 1 player per team, the other players will benefit just because these team traits are around.
Whereas those trait owners don't benefit anything from the others.

If you are playing archipelago maps, the spy slot is useless since espionage is useful only after you met someone.
By then, everyone else would have many espionage buildings anyway.

Obsolete building bonus just add to the same problem that in late era starts, it is just another useless benefit.

In short, hr is becoming balanced only for ancient era start

War weariness: I guess you're right with Martial, but are you sure that it's the same with Charismatic? If there is a fake building providing -25% war weariness in every city of the charismatic player, it is just the same as a jail and won't affect the other players in his team, will it? As the fake building does not change the acutal amount of war weariness but only the effect on this city.
And regardings non-ancient starts, I do not think that this is a great problem. There are much more unbalanced things in later starts... UUs which you can never use because they belong to a former era only are the most obvious example. Some effects are made to push the early game, as +1:food:/:hammers: in every city, it's just impossible to balance everything for every possible situation. Most players start in ancient era either way (I guess) and the ones who don't should be aware of the fact that some things are much more powerful and other things are useless in later starts. That's just natural. I would rather focus on balancing more common things such as different kinds of maps (specially the amount of water on a map), but not on options as later starting eras which are not even considered by many people (I guess). Of course, if there is a possibility to adjust trait effects on later start eras (I like the idea of giving a free great person at the beginning to Creative/Industrious etc. leaders if you start later, for example), that's nice, but I would not bother if there is no option to do, specially regarding Defensive's happy bonus (1:) is much less worth later than in the beginning). And actually... I don't know a single building which goes obsolete in HR, not even walls.

Apart from all that, I am unsure about the balancing of the free great people per era in general... Could be pretty strong, especially the Engineer, and the Artist turns Creative into a must-have for cultural victories (of course, it is natural that some traits are especially good for certain victories, but that is really strong for a cultural victory)... The Scientist seems ok to me, as Scientists are much more common than Artists or Engineers.
Something I have seen in another mod as a trait effect: Free Great xy if you start a golden age. What do you think about that? That way, the player has to do something to get his bonus instead of just entering a new era (which you do either way) and it does not collide with later starts.
 
Depends which fake building came to your mind.
I was thinking more of the national wonder that reduce global war weariness.

But generally I find war weariness more or less a useless thing in bts anyway.
The effects are just too negligible unless the war is really dragged very long.

Free great people can be potentially very op in team games, especially if you are giving free ones for late era starts.
A team with 5 free great engineers will start the game with many free wonders.
A team with 5 great scientists can pretty much jump half an era ahead, since each of them can grant 1 free tech to whole team or almost free for later techs.
 
Well, a team with 5 Great Engineers needs 5 industrious leaders. But of course, that is strong because most wonders work for the whole team. That's a general problem about wonders in teamers, they're imba.
But apart from the engineers, I don't thinks that's critical. Artist mainly affect the civ which uses them only (and not, as engineers who build a wonder, the whole team) and scientists... I doubt that they would provide such a great tech bonus. Every scientist means 1500+3*Pop :science: (if that has not been changed) and since you only start with a few settlers (-> not much pop), that's about 7.500:science:. Nice, but don't forget that techs in a team of at least 5 civs cost at least 300% of the normal price and you need five Progressive Leaders... Not imba, I think.
 
Xyth is considering giving 1 per "pre-era" for those late era starts.
A team with just 2 of those leaders in a modern start would start the game with 8 free GPs + another 2 upon finishing one tech which brings you to modern era.

Whichever team starts the game first would finish building all the wonders available.
Great Engineers is definitely a no no.
Scientists are the second worst, since techs are cheap at early eras.
Big Team of Scientists = Fight Sticks with Guns
 
Well, he said (if I didn't miss anything)

Might be worth giving one free great person at game start if beginning in a later era though.

which sounds like only one GP. One per every skipped era at later starts would definitely be too strong, I agree.
 
By the way, why are half the traits giving happiness.
Some of them can be combat oriented, such as
Defensive
Units heal fully after combat when stationed in cities.

Tactical
Captures siege units.

Most of the trait benefits are getting repetitive, free xx per era, happiness per building.
They lose their uniqueness

P.S.
There isn't even one for health?
That one is pure xml easy to implement
 
By the way, why are half the traits giving happiness.
Some of them can be combat oriented, such as
Defensive
Units heal fully after combat when stationed in cities.

Tactical
Captures siege units.

Most of the trait benefits are getting repetitive, free xx per era, happiness per building.
They lose their uniqueness

P.S.
There isn't even one for health?
That one is pure xml easy to implement

I agree.
Humane has a health bonus, it's not on the list because it has not been changed.
 
Thanks for the feedback. As mentioned earlier, this is just the first draft and I expect and want things to change. I was starting to go around in circles with my ideas, so I posted what I had so far to hear different perspectives and suggestions. Things always turn out better that way :)


Balancing different starts

I agree with Boggy that balancing with different map styles in mind is more important than balancing for advanced starts, which have so many inherent imbalances anyway. I can aim to not disrupt them too drastically, but I don't think we need to be concerned with the smaller effects.


Free Great People

When referring to granting a free great person if starting the game in a later era, I mean just one free one for that era, not one for each era skipped. So if you start in the Industrial era you'd get just one free Great Person at game start, not 4.

My plan is actually to make those free Great People come from different mechanisms. Great Scientist makes sense coming from new eras as technological advancement is what triggers era change. Creative's Great Artists could come from culture levels instead, for example. I just haven't figured out the specifics yet. Suggestions welcomed.


Health from Buildings

There's an XML option for that for civics, but not for traits. Probably not too challenging to do in Python though. It's something I'm considering but in several cases I'd prefer to replace building bonuses with new bonuses altogether.


Losing uniqueness

Don't worry, this is definitely something I want to avoid. Will just take a few more iterations to realize. There are many happiness buildings and faster production buildings because in most cases I consider each trait to have 2 major bonuses and 1 minor bonus, and these building effects are an easy to implement form of the latter. Some will be replaced eventually but defining the major bonuses is the priority right now.
 
Hey! I'm back on the forums.
Tinkering with leader traits (and civics) is one of my favourite modding pastimes, so I'll definitely have some feedback up. In general, I agree that we want to avoid repetition among traits, ie. too many double production speed or happiness bonuses. I think that free Great People per Era is far too powerful, though. A free Engineer is a free Wonder, and a free Artist is a free 50 tiles along a contested border, if used early enough. Anyway, I'll have more thoughts up soon.

Edit: A couple of questions.

1. What is the plan for Spiritual if No Anarchy is moved to Judicial? I'm thinking "All Religious Civics available" but I remember we tried that before and the AI would adopt Fundamentalism before it had a state religion, thereby blocking all future religious spreads to its cities. Is it possible to code an additional requirement for that civic, "must have state religion"? I'm not sure it would work anyway, since that column has changed over the past few versions, dropping some of the religious bonuses for things like Unlimited Scientists and +10% science, which might be too powerful on T0.

2. Can you code terrain or improvement bonuses on leader traits? i.e. +1 commerce on Nature Reserve or +1 production on Desert?
 
Right. Here are my suggestions for the leader traits. (Fair warning: I've suggested a lot of changes!) My main goal is to avoid one-dimensional traits that only improve one aspect of the game. A commercial-oriented trait that provides three different minor commerce boosts is boring!

Each trait below has one major bonus. That's the first one listed. In some cases, the trait name has changed to reflect this. (Or to avoid more than two traits beginning with the same letter!) I've then tried to make sure that each trait has both economic and military uses, both early game and late game uses, and has no more than one per city bonus. Obviously some traits are still better for builders and others for warmongers.

Here they are:

Aggressive
• Commando promotion for Melee, Mounted, Gunpowder units
• +100% yield from pillaging and capturing cities
• -50% war weariness

Charismatic
• +50% faster production of Worker, Labourer, Work Boat
• +1 combat experience per battle
• -20% espionage mission cost

Creative
• +50% World Wonder production
• Allows 1 Artist in every city
• Pillaging and capturing cities provides research


Diplomatic
• +2 relations with other civilizations
• +1 trade route in every city
• Sentry promotion for Mounted, Naval, Recon units


Disciplined (formerly Tactical)
• Combat I promotion for Melee, Mounted, Gunpowder units
• -33% hurry production cost
• +100% Great General emergence

Enlightened (formerly Philosophical)
• +100% Great Person birth rate
• +1 culture per specialist
• Double production speed of School

Enterprising
• +50% commerce from trade routes
• +100% production from chopping

• Allows 1 Merchant in every city

Humane
• 50% longer Golden Ages
• +10% food stored after growth
• +2 health per city

Industrious
• +1 production per city
• Improvement costs refunded
• Double production speed of Forge

Inventive (formerly Financial)
• +1 commerce from Coast, Ocean
• Allows 1 Scientist in every city

• Double production speed of Bank

Judicial
• No resistance in captured cities
• -50% civic upkeep

• +1 happiness from Jail, Courthouse

Martial
• All Military civics available
• +100% units with no upkeep
• +1 happiness from Barracks, Stadium


Organized
• Improvements build 50% faster
• Double production speed of Lighthouse, Library
• Always build wealth at a rate of 100%

Populist (formerly Imperialist)
• +50% faster production of Settler, Colonist
• +100% National Wonder production
• +20% city defense


Progressive
• +100% Growth for Cottage, Hamlet, Village
• Always builds research at a rate of 100%
• -50% upgrade cost for military units

Revolutionary (formerly Political)
• All Government civics available
• +1 production per unhappy citizen
• Flanking I promotion for Archery, Mounted, Naval units


Spiritual
• No Anarchy
• Double production speed of Cemetery, Great Temple
• Medic I promotion for Recon, Archery, Naval units

Traditional
• -25% production for buildings already constructed in capital
• +3 happiness in capital
• Always build culture at a rate of 100%

Vigilant (formerly Defensive)
• Improvements are protected from Pillaging
• Drill I promotion for Archery, Gunpowder, Naval units
• +1 happiness for Walls, Castle

Urbane (formerly Expansive)
• +1 food per city
• +1 production and commerce per settled Great Person
• Double production of Harbour, Sewer​
 
I was working on some suggestions of my own when Azoth posted those.

Charismatic
All Labour civics available
+1 experience from combat victory
+1 happiness in every city

Creative
Always build culture at a rate of 100%
+50% World Wonder production
+1 happiness from Theatre, Tavern

Defensive
Improvements are protected from pillaging
Drill I promotion for Melee, Archery, Gunpowder units
+1 happiness from Walls, Castle

Diplomatic
+1 relations with other civilizations
-10% cost towards any techs already owned by friendly civs
+50% commerce from trade routes

Enterprising
Allows 1 merchant in every city
+1 trade route in every city
+1 commerce on tiles with 3 commerce

Expansive
+1 food in every city
50% faster production of Settler, Colonist
Sentry promotion for Recon, Naval units

Imperialist
No resistance in captured cities
Chance of acquiring rival technology on capturing a city
City Raider I promotion for siege units

Industrious
+1 production in every city
-50% hurry production cost
50% faster production of Worker, Labourer, Workboat

Judicial
No anarchy
+100% defence against espionage and spies
100% faster production of Jail, Courthouse (Or happiness, either seems good)

Martial
All Military civics available
No unhappiness from drafting
+2 experience in every city (or +1)

Organized
-50% civic upkeep
Improvements built 50% faster
100% faster production of Library

Philosophical
Mobility promotion for missionaries, executives
Free Great Person when entering a new era
50% faster production of School


Political
All Government civics available
Allows 1 spy in every city
+100% National Wonder production

Progressive
No unhappiness from non-state religions
+100% growth for Cottage, Hamlet, Village
+1 happiness from Observatory, Hospital

Tactical
+100% Great General emergence
-50% cost to upgrade military units
Flanking I promotion for Melee, Mounted, Gunpowder units

Traditional
25% faster production for buildings already in capital
100% faster production of units already obsolete for any other civ
+5 happiness from Palace
 
Some comments:

What are the strongest traits in 1.20? I'd have to say Traditional, Expansive, and Industrious. The hammer savings from Traditional are simply huge: 7 per Monument per city, 15 per Cemetery, all the way to Airports and Industrial Parks. Meanwhile, pairing bonus city yields with cheaper Settlers and Workers lets Expansive and Industrious leaders completely out-expand the competition. I've reduced the Traditional Palace bonus, and split the cheaper Settlers and Workers to other traits, Populist and Charismatic, to spread out the early game bonuses. Expansive has been re-imagined as Urbane, a trait emphasizing large, populated cities. Expansive never made much sense anyway, as the word means "spirited and welcoming" when describing people.

What are the weakest traits in 1.20? Probably Financial, Enterprising, and Creative. Their bonuses are just too bland and passive. In contrast to bonus food or production, extra commerce per turn is negligible. I've tried to spruce them up, replacing Financial with Inventive. Hardly anyone is ever described as "financial" anyway. I kept Diplomatic at +2 relations, mostly because +1 feels like background noise and won't help the AI much at all. The other bonuses were toned down to compensate. Another idea to shake up diplomacy is to add further bonuses to various trait pairings: Aggressive/Diplomatic, Creative/Disciplined, Martial/Urbane, Progressive/Traditional, Organized/Revolutionary. Leaders with the same trait would have +2 relations; leaders with the opposite trait would have -2 relations.

On the question of bonus specialist slots or free Great People per era, I side firmly with specialists. They add so much flexibility when combined with free specialists from Cemeteries, and make players earn their Great People. (And Creative must have Artists; easy border pops is a defining feature of the trait.) I'm not sure why Cemeteries were changed back to free Priests; that does lead to too many Great Prophets. If certain civilizations end up with more religions than others, that's just the way it goes. Many civilizations embraced foreign religions as their own in history. I'm not sure that a free specialist for the Palace would be much better, either. That would start GPP counters a bit too early, and weaken certain starting techs and the Spiritual trait.

On the subject of other bonuses to avoid, I would steer clear of:
• espionage per trade route and spy slots - As others have mentioned, it does imbalance the early game. The only espionage bonus that fits is a discount on missions, as it leaves espionage points alone. -20% is equivalent to the Open Borders discount. (By comparison, you can get a 50% discount by waiting in the target city for 5 turns.)
• bonus commerce on river tiles - Rivers are already very desirable, with bonus base commerce, bonus commerce from tile improvements, and health. Bonus commerce on sea tiles is better, since these cannot be improved further.
• no unhappiness from drafting - Drafting needs a happiness penalty or it becomes overpowered. In BtS, Globe Theatre draft camps are among the strongest military producers, turning otherwise marginal terrain, when fully irrigated, into 1 unit per turn.
• acquire rival tech when capturing cities - This could get out of control, especially if a city changes hands multiple times. And a chance to acquire technology (like a chance to found a religion) turns into a dice roll. "Pillaging and capturing cities provides research" is probably better.
• priest slots per city - They're fairly pointless, since Cemeteries arrive so early.
• defense against espionage - A boring bonus, since you'll never see it working; it's completely in the background

Beyond that, I've added some more free promotions, since units so rarely earn more than a couple. Charismatic and Martial don't get free promotions because they get free experience - from combat or a T0 Standing Army civic. I've also cut a lot of double production and happiness bonuses. Let me know what you think.
 
Thanks for the ideas both of you, and welcome back Azoth! I won't get time to analyze in detail till later today so just a quick comment for now:

While I agree that completely one-dimensional traits are not desirable, I've had a lot of feedback about wanting the traits to encourage different play styles, which I agree with. AI limitations mean we can't ever get anything as defined as Civ5's UAs but we can still aim to make bonuses less passive where we can. So lets aim for bonuses that aren't all about the exact same yield/commerce/etc, but still complement each other in sensible ways. For example, Philosophical boosts GPP and rewards you for settling your Great People in cities. Enterprising encourages you to settle by rivers and gives you an extra trade route to help you make the most of it. Some traits will always be more 'hybrid' than others though (e.g Traditional), and that's okay.

All 3 bonuses being related is unfeasible of course, so it doesn't hurt for one of them to be a bit different for each trait. I'd also like to avoid re-using too many civic bonuses unless they're essential (like Aggressive and Clan Warfare's pillage/capture bonus).
 
Youngest child has a cold so my responses will be a bit piecemeal I'm afraid.

What is the plan for Spiritual if No Anarchy is moved to Judicial? I'm thinking "All Religious Civics available" but I remember we tried that before and the AI would adopt Fundamentalism before it had a state religion, thereby blocking all future religious spreads to its cities. Is it possible to code an additional requirement for that civic, "must have state religion"? I'm not sure it would work anyway, since that column has changed over the past few versions, dropping some of the religious bonuses for things like Unlimited Scientists and +10% science, which might be too powerful on T0.

Enabling all Religion civics would indeed be too strong. I don't have a definite plan yet but it needs to be something actually related to religions, 'no anarchy' is much more suitable for Judicial in my opinion.

2. Can you code terrain or improvement bonuses on leader traits? i.e. +1 commerce on Nature Reserve or +1 production on Desert?

Possibly but it would be messy, likely involving multiple checks every turn to see what tiles had changed ownership. Best left to civics where its available as a simple XML option.

Pillaging and capturing cities provides research
Chance of acquiring rival technology on capturing a city
acquire rival tech when capturing cities - This could get out of control, especially if a city changes hands multiple times. And a chance to acquire technology (like a chance to found a religion) turns into a dice roll. "Pillaging and capturing cities provides research" is probably better.

My description is bad, I actually intend for the trait to grant research towards techs, the received based on the size of the city. Achieved via this mod component, check it out for details of how it can work.

Expansive has been re-imagined as Urbane, a trait emphasizing large, populated cities. Expansive never made much sense anyway, as the word means "spirited and welcoming" when describing people.

I'm not a fan of the name changes overall sorry. I don't consider the trait names to necessarily be describing the personal qualities of the leader, but also the direction of the civilization under their regime. This way, names like 'Expansive' make perfect sense.

I was considering 'Vigilant' as alternative option for 'Defensive' but felt it like it implied espionage or visibility range ('watchful') rather than the actual bonuses of the trait.

All Labour civics available

The Unlimited Engineers of Industrialism would make this far too strong. Government and Military are the only civic categories I consider suitable for enabling by traits, largely because I've keep that goal in mind whenever I review the civics.

bonus commerce on river tiles - Rivers are already very desirable, with bonus base commerce, bonus commerce from tile improvements, and health. Bonus commerce on sea tiles is better, since these cannot be improved further.

I agree that bonus yield for sea tiles could be better but I'm concerned about it being too strong on Archipelago and similar maps.

priest slots per city - They're fairly pointless, since Cemeteries arrive so early.

They're an advantage if the free specialist is attached to the Palace, but otherwise not really. I have no objection to not using them.

I'm not sure that a free specialist for the Palace would be much better, either. That would start GPP counters a bit too early, and weaken certain starting techs and the Spiritual trait.

GPP would start accumulating earlier, but only for free in the capital so perhaps it balances out a bit.

-20% espionage mission cost

Not possible to implement as far as I can tell.

No unhappiness from non-state religions

Easy to implement for civics but a nightmare to implement for traits. I prefer to leave this for the Free Religion civic exclusively anyway.



Out of time for now, will comment more later.
 
While I agree that completely one-dimensional traits are not desirable, I've had a lot of feedback about wanting the traits to encourage different play styles, which I agree with. AI limitations mean we can't ever get anything as defined as Civ5's UAs but we can still aim to make bonuses less passive where we can. So lets aim for bonuses that aren't all about the exact same yield/commerce/etc, but still complement each other in sensible ways. For example, Philosophical boosts GPP and rewards you for settling your Great People in cities.

This comes down to personal taste, but I've always found it's more interesting to go with more flexible leader traits, particularly since you can then combine them for more specialization. So Philosophical is all about getting more Great People, but you can then pair that with (say) Expansive if you want to grow big cities with settled Great People, or Humane if you'd rather use them for Golden Ages, or Creative if you plan most of your GPP to come from Wonders instead of specialists, or Spiritual if you want to corner the religious scene, etc. Philosophical's other bonuses don't directly impact Great People, which preserves flexibility. (I hardly ever settle Great People, for instance.) Instead, +1 culture from specialists means you can build Cemeteries early and skip Monuments, as you get +1 culture either way. It's also a gentle nudge towards running more specialists and later contributes to both Culture and Domination victories. (Convert all citizens in captured cities to specialists for one turn to speed up border expansion at the cost of some starvation.) Meanwhile, faster Schools offers a midgame research boost. That means that Philosophical stays relevant for all play styles.

One thing I've found unsatisfying about Civ5 is the lack of real options. For example, on water-heavy maps, Carthage is the clear best choice, followed by the Vikings and England, and then nothing else is really relevant. (Polynesia is better suited to Continents or Terra-style maps, since Archipelagos can usually be circumnavigated by sticking to Coast.) Still, nothing is really going to beat free Harbours in every city, considering the instant production, trade routes, and maintenance savings, especially when combined with God of the Sea. Play anything else and you're playing for second best. Whereas in Civ4, you can have water-friendly options all over the place, with discounted Harbours or Lighthouses or Work Boats, bonus commerce in the sea, free Drill I or Flanking I or Medic I on Naval units, or various trade route buffs. You can't have them all, but you can pick and choose what you like best. And the same goes for other maps and play styles and victory conditions.

Enabling all Religion civics would indeed be too strong. I don't have a definite plan yet but it needs to be something actually related to religions, 'no anarchy' is much more suitable for Judicial in my opinion.

I kept no anarchy with Spiritual, moved no resistance in captured cities and reduced civic upkeep to Judicial, leaving all government civics for Political. No resistance is probably a better fit with Judicial law-givers than Imperialists, who always faced stiff resistance. And together with reduced civic upkeep, it makes for a reasonably strong trait. No anarchy does help with the religious game quite a bit, since you can adopt a state religion immediately while other leaders have to wait until the change is worth the lost turn yield. But I'm sure there are other options out there.

I'm not a fan of the name changes overall sorry. I don't consider the trait names to necessarily be describing the personal qualities of the leader, but also the direction of the civilization under their regime. This way, names like 'Expansive' make perfect sense.

That's fine. You don't have to like everything I suggest. :p
I'm only really attached to Revolutionary, as it seems much more interesting than bland "Political." It also fits the bonuses really well, as All Government civics can mean a T0 Democracy or Theocracy or whatever. I'm also hoping you can code +1 production for unhappy citizens. To be clear, that would mean any population over the happy cap that's rioting would still produce 1 hammer, making it functionally equivalent to a citizen specialist. It wouldn't be worthwhile to grow unhappy citizens deliberately, as you'd be trading 2 food for 1 production, but it means Revolutionaries can afford a temporary happiness hit.

I agree that bonus yield for sea tiles could be better but I'm concerned about it being too strong on Archipelago and similar maps.

Hmm. You could restrict it to Ocean tiles in that case. And maybe add +1 commerce on Reefs. Or +1 commerce to Oases. Those can't be improved either.
 
I'd like to say that I have a 34 xp archer in one my cities right now because of barbs and the +1 experience per combat victory effect. That's well above the limit from barb combat, simply because of the charismatic trait.
 
I have been rather distracted by illness, earthquakes, and interface tweaking, but focussing back on traits now.

-10% cost towards any techs already owned by friendly civs

That's an interesting idea, suits Diplomatic quite well. Should be doable in some fashion.

+1 commerce on tiles with 3 commerce

I prefer not to use that mechanic, for any yield. Scaling can get out of control.

+2 experience in every city (or +1)

This is already used by numerous civics and buildings so I'd prefer to avoid it.

100% faster production of units already obsolete for any other civ

Interesting but I'm not sure that would have a lot of benefit. Would also require a python callback with numerous checks (and thus a performance hit) so it's probably not worth it.

I've reduced the Traditional Palace bonus, and split the cheaper Settlers and Workers to other traits

Reasonable.

I kept Diplomatic at +2 relations, mostly because +1 feels like background noise and won't help the AI much at all.

Agreed, it needs to stay at +2 for the AI's sake.

Another idea to shake up diplomacy is to add further bonuses to various trait pairings: Aggressive/Diplomatic, Creative/Disciplined, Martial/Urbane, Progressive/Traditional, Organized/Revolutionary. Leaders with the same trait would have +2 relations; leaders with the opposite trait would have -2 relations.

Intriguing idea, though some pairings would feel a bit forced. Keep it in mind for the future.

On the question of bonus specialist slots or free Great People per era, I side firmly with specialists. (And Creative must have Artists; easy border pops is a defining feature of the trait.)

I was doing it mostly to increase variety and, as mentioned earlier, ideally each free Great Person would come from a different source. Feedback taken on board though. Basically we're looking at Artists, Merchants, and Scientists working well as specialist slots, Priests possibly being too weak (depending where that free specialist ends up), Engineers and Spies being too strong.

I'm still very tempted to leave Progressive with a free Great Scientist per era. It adds variety, makes thematic sense, and I don't think it's overpowered compared to a scientist slot. Build research at 100% is an alternative but I've already used the wealth and culture equivalents and would prefer to avoid it for variety's sake.

I've no problem reverting Creative back to an Artist slot, general consensus seemed to be that the trait was too strong with the Great Artist anyway. Enterprising can keep its Merchant slot and we'll have to wait and see about Spiritual. So that's specialist slots used either twice or thrice across all traits. That's reasonable.

I'd still like Industrious to associate with engineers and Political to associate with spies, specialist or great, in some way though.

I'm not sure that a free specialist for the Palace would be much better, either. That would start GPP counters a bit too early, and weaken certain starting techs and the Spiritual trait.

It would start GPP accumulation earlier, but only in the capital. You'd need to grow your other cities a bit before filling that specialist slot is feasible. Cemeteries are pretty powerful buildings for the era, and make Ceremonial Burial the most powerful starting tech. I don't think it hurts to have either of these weakened so long as we adjust the affected traits accordingly, Spiritual in particular.

espionage per trade route and spy slots - As others have mentioned, it does imbalance the early game. The only espionage bonus that fits is a discount on missions, as it leaves espionage points alone. -20% is equivalent to the Open Borders discount. (By comparison, you can get a 50% discount by waiting in the target city for 5 turns.)

Espionage is surprisingly and frustratingly unmoddable compared to other systems in BTS. Pretty much nothing we can do that doesn't involve EP. I really want Political to have an espionage focus though. Not essential for Diplomatic where it's only meant to be a relatively minor bonus. Need to think of interesting espionage bonuses that won't kick in too early.

defense against espionage - A boring bonus, since you'll never see it working; it's completely in the background

Boring yes, but still useful. Best used as a minor bonus though.

Beyond that, I've added some more free promotions, since units so rarely earn more than a couple.

City Raider I promotion for siege units
Drill I promotion for Melee, Archery, Gunpowder units
Flanking I promotion for Melee, Mounted, Gunpowder units

Something that is worth considering here perhaps is that many of the new and redesigned UUs have free promotions. I specifically avoided giving Combat I, Medic I, Commando and Sentry to UUs so that they wouldn't clash with traits.

This comes down to personal taste, but I've always found it's more interesting to go with more flexible leader traits, particularly since you can then combine them for more specialization.

I think the ideal is somewhere in the middle; a good balance of focus and flexibility.

I hardly ever settle Great People, for instance.

It's not a common use of Great People, no. I attached it to Philosophical because they are mostly likely to make use of it and the trait didn't need a second bonus that was too strong. Because Great People have other uses that are usually more valuable or strategic, I'm not sure it would see much use if attached to another trait, unless it was strengthened considerably.

+1 culture from specialists means you can build Cemeteries early and skip Monuments, as you get +1 culture either way.

My only reason for scrapping this bonus (and the espionage equivalent) was that they are duplicates of civic bonuses.

I'm only really attached to Revolutionary, as it seems much more interesting than bland "Political."

I considered 'Revolutionary' as trait but ultimately rejected is as it didn't really match with all that many of HR's leaders nor leaders that I intend to add. When choosing the new traits I looked at which existing ones I was always wishing I had more slots available for. Diplomatic was one of those and thus I chose Political as an alternative. My concept is that Diplomatic is about external negotiations and unifications (e.g. Hiawatha, Mongkut, Bismarck) while Political is more about internal machinations and intrigue (e.g. Joao, Wu, Herod).

I'm also hoping you can code +1 production for unhappy citizens.

I cannot sorry.

Hmm. You could restrict it to Ocean tiles in that case. And maybe add +1 commerce on Reefs. Or +1 commerce to Oases. Those can't be improved either.

I can't alter tile or improvement yields for traits, without checking every tile for change of ownership every turn. Which obviously isn't at all practical. I can only do river and sea tiles via fake buildings (Levee and Dike effects). The latter doesn't distinguish between Coast and Ocean either, which is frustrating.

I'd like to say that I have a 34 xp archer in one my cities right now because of barbs and the +1 experience per combat victory effect. That's well above the limit from barb combat, simply because of the charismatic trait

Easy to disable the extra experience from Barbarian combat, should we desire.


Anyway, work on a 2nd draft is underway, lots of new ideas and considerations to juggle. Keep your suggestions and criticism coming.
 
Actually you can alter improvement yield via python, which means you can assign it to a trait.
Except that it is a team ability and should not be used for trait
 
Actually you can alter improvement yield via python, which means you can assign it to a trait.
Except that it is a team ability and should not be used for trait

Ah didn't think to look in CyTeam. Good to know, but yeah, not suitable for a trait. Would also disrupt my carefully balanced improvement/resource/civic interactions.
 
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