FF novice w/ Basium and Hyborem question

DioAurion

Warlord
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
213
Location
So-Cal
So I'm prepping to start my first game of FF as a hotseat with my friend who has been badgering me since his first game of FFH2 that we had to try a team game as Hyborem and Basium allied. So we were both delighted to learn that the custom options here allows you to start a game as either, making setting up this ideal situation far simpler than we previously thought.

So my questions relate to how the mechanics of infernals and mercurians work when starting the game as them.

What do you gain access to once establishing yourself with their particular normal entrance to the world requirements like Infernal Pact?

Can other civilizations beat the mercurians to the Mercurian Gate? If so, what occurs? If not, does this mean mercurians must build the gate themselves and can take their time doing it?

Is there any problems I haven't foreseen that would prevent this type of custom game hotseat with infernals and mercurians on a team against other AI teams of 2?

Hope to hear from the FF veterans so I can learn from your experience and save time and possible frustration on our part.
 
Nobody is really a veteran with these changes as I just put them in this last patch. Prior to that it was near impossible to start with Basium, and near impossible not to win instantly starting as Hyborem.

If someone else builds the Mercurian gate first, it just means Basium can steal that city whenever he pleases and is on the tile for it without a fight. I don't remember if I blocked it so that ONLY the Mercurian are capable of building the gate though.


Basium/Hyborem spawn when they are properly brought into the game. Angels/Manes start being allowed to spawn then as well. All of the "City Freebies" start then, which mostly just affects the Infernals (AV, Forge, Obsidian Gate... I think there was something else). AV is still autopurged from Mercurian cities before the Gate is built, and I think Order is purged from Infernal cities as well.
 
Thanks for the response. I guess my friend and I will go into this as pioneers and find out for ourselves. So long as we don't hit an unstoppable CtD I'm sure a good time is to be had.
 
How are the mercurians supposed to live long enough to reach Fanaticism and build the gate, with only one angel and no Basium?
 
How are the mercurians supposed to live long enough to reach Fanaticism and build the gate, with only one angel and no Basium?

I recently started a game as the Mercurians, just to see how they fare as a starting civilization.

Its been an interesting challenge, and very different from my normal play style. Starting location is clearly very important: The inability to build warriors/scouts means only two cities (at most) for a long time, so they had better be good ones with lots of resources. I rushed for the Order religion as well, so that delayed expansion even longer.....but converted most of the rest of the world to Order as well, which so far has held off war while I catch up in technology & military.
 
Not to be a complete noob, but how do you start a game as Infernals/Mercurians? I looked all over on the "Custom Game" options and couldn't find them anywhere in the civ lists, leader lists, or check-box options.
 
Not to be a complete noob, but how do you start a game as Infernals/Mercurians? I looked all over on the "Custom Game" options and couldn't find them anywhere in the civ lists, leader lists, or check-box options.

There is an option at the bottom of the list for blocking random civilizations. Select it, allow the Mercs and Infernals to be selected by Human players, and and then back out of the custom game screen and go back in... Should be able to select them.
 
why not just allow the mercurians Warriors like anyone else.

Or maybe even a warrior UU

Aspirant
Str 3 +1 Holy (cannot use weapons)
 
They aren't allowed to build most units to force reliance on Angel spawns. Could maybe let them build something which has a duration inflicted on it outside of borders, but don't care to spend time making them playable from turn 1, especially since that is BEGGING to get caught in balancing arguements
 
simple solution, then.
Give them warriors and axemen, take away their champions.

Angels would be clearly superior and would undoubtedly be your main offence when you get them. Axemen and warriors would allow them to survive until that point.

no UU's or special balancing needed. Just give them generic things.
 
Well when I started my game as the Mercurian, I remember not having any units whatsoever, but I was able to build Basium. He's very nice at the first 50 turns :D I used him to take out the Balsaraph, who had a sizable army of freaks (mind you, I only had Basium and Valin Phanuel [I got order, and used him to defend]). I didn't destroy anyone else till I got my first angel. After I got my first one, they rolled in (I founded order before any other religion, making most of the world good), and my war machine started. The iron supplied angels made short work of the civilizations next to me, and it was pretty much a mop up after that, until at the very edge of civilization, the remaining civ's had become technologicly advanced enough to make champions, who were also supplied with iron. The remaining civ's were in despair. They knew that every unit of theirs that died, I got it back, keeping the experience that the unit gained from killing the very thing it had become. Still, their combined efforts managed to keep them alive, until I finally got Basium to the front (he was on the other side of the world freeing Bright[who I also used]). Basium crushed their puny opposition (being alive for the whole game, and being perpetually at war has its benifits[level 21, halla!]). Soo yeah. Its fun.

And I just noticed that the OP posted this in mid April. Oh well.
 
After reading this thread i have tried 2 games over the last 2 days and everytime i can't get angels to spawn and i can build axemen.
what are the requirements for angels to spawn? i thought they should come after i build the mercurian gate but they don't
 
I'm playing a Scion game now Monarch difficulty), where I put both the infernals and mercurians in as AI from the start.

The infernals are doing VERY well. They already wiped out another civ fairly quickly with swarms of iron-weapon, city-raider axemen, and they attacked me. Though I'm managing to hold them off just fine. Ashen Veil hasn't been founded yet, and none of their cities are over size 3, but that's not stopping them from going on a rampage with fairly decently sized armies

Mercurians on the other hand, are doing pitifully. They started on a peninsula, and couldn't expand fast enough before they got cornered by doviello expansion. By about turn 250, they still had only one size 4 city. Inside it was 1 angel, 1 adept, and 3 catapults. Aside from a worker, that's all they had.

I checked with worldbuilder, and they were building more catapults, too. Seems like it's the only military option they have.

I had to give them a few free angels with the worldbuilder, and pretty much all my techs, to help them get off the ground. At which point they promptly declared war on the doviello, took a city, then lost half their angels in a failed attempt to hold it.

The infernals are cool, but the mercurians need some work. If you're not wanting to work on balancing them, then I'd question why you touched them at all in the first place. they weren't that broken to begin with, since they wouldn't even start getting angels until a good religion was founded. As the mercurians are now, they seem pretty ineffectual.
 
I'm still in the game I mentioned above playing as the Mercurians.

I'm now at turn #594 at Epic game speed and have not had a single angel spawn. I have created the Mercurian Gate, and have Basium, which I understand from the above posts is the requirement to allow Angels to spawn. The only reason I'm still in the game is I have a continent to myself (easily defensible), lots of very powerful heroes, two 12 strength War Elephants, and my one token angel I started with who will soon be upgraded to a Valkyrie.

I know the Infernals are getting units because I see the message when I raze a city (at war with an Ashen Veil civ I'm eradicating). I've even had units of my own die which follow the Order religion, but never gotten an Angel out of it. There is also a war raging on another continent between a civ with the Order religion and another following Fellowship of the Leaves. The Order civ is loosing fast, and I should be getting at least *some* Angels from that war, if I understand the process correctly.

I'm guessing something is broken? Or am I missing something to unlock Angel spawning?
 
I'm still in the game I mentioned above playing as the Mercurians.

I'm now at turn #594 at Epic game speed and have not had a single angel spawn. I have created the Mercurian Gate, and have Basium, which I understand from the above posts is the requirement to allow Angels to spawn. The only reason I'm still in the game is I have a continent to myself (easily defensible), lots of very powerful heroes, two 12 strength War Elephants, and my one token angel I started with who will soon be upgraded to a Valkyrie.

I know the Infernals are getting units because I see the message when I raze a city (at war with an Ashen Veil civ I'm eradicating). I've even had units of my own die which follow the Order religion, but never gotten an Angel out of it. There is also a war raging on another continent between a civ with the Order religion and another following Fellowship of the Leaves. The Order civ is loosing fast, and I should be getting at least *some* Angels from that war, if I understand the process correctly.

I'm guessing something is broken? Or am I missing something to unlock Angel spawning?
I guess something is wrong with the spawning mechanism of the mercurians so i posted my save in the bug thread, i suggest you do the same.
is your pc running on XP or vista ?
 
I guess something is wrong with the spawning mechanism of the mercurians so i posted my save in the bug thread, i suggest you do the same.
is your pc running on XP or vista ?

XP

I'll post the savegame as you suggest
 
Top Bottom