FfH2 0.15 Balance Recommendations

[QES]

Withdraw only works when the unit would die normally. It doesn't work when the unit gets to the point where one more hit would kill it. So giving it to your enemy or taking it away from yourself is always a bad thing. Just thought I'd point that out.

Now, if you could get your enemy to retreat when they have 10/20/50 hp left, or after a certain number of combat rounds, that might be nice.

Yeah thats what i was thinking, withdraw not really to "avoid death"....well, yes to avoid death, but really its tactics/psychology convincing the unit its going to die alot sooner than it normally would (or maybe not at all).

It'd be kind of like a "scattering" effect. So, maybe a chance to withdraw every round?
-Qes

EDIT: I agree with sureshot on mobility.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Personally, I've thought for a while that there should be a blank "promotion" that does nothing, but leads to mobility 1. There's a big difference between one move and two moves, but not such a big difference between two and three or three and four. Perhaps let mounted units get mobility 1 without that "promotion."

 

[QES]

Personally, I've thought for a while that there should be a blank "promotion" that does nothing, but leads to mobility 1. There's a big difference between one move and two moves, but not such a big difference between two and three or three and four. Perhaps let mounted units get mobility 1 without that "promotion."

Or just after withdraw, which would mean the other units are still benefiting from "something"
-Qes

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Yes, that might work better. Mobility might not be worth two promotions, but 1.5 is effectively what it would be.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yes, that might work better. Mobility might not be worth two promotions, but 1.5 is effectively what it would be.

It could require Combat I OR Withdraw I. A boost for aggressive civs, but maybe make combat promotion line even better when we want to boost Drill and Withdraw.

 

[Sureshot]

no no on the combat 1 opening it up, combat one opens enough heh

 

[Nikis-Knight]

i also think mobility should be on the withdraw tree, so that its not so easily gotten. i personally love using mobility, but its part of the reason the horse techs are pointless until you have gotten everything else and a wicked economy

Though not every unit can currently get withdraw, just recon and horses. I like having withdraw availible at the start, if just to speed up the game.

 

[Sureshot]

melee units should be allowed withdraw 1 i think, and then they could get mobility too

 

[Alchemistor]

Let me congratulate you on a truly wonderful mod. Reminds me of Master of Magic from long ago, but it's even better in my opinion.


In my latest game, Ljosalfar's Shadows started killing off my high level casters and there doesn't seem to be anything that I can do to counter that other than put workers or some other weak units in the caster stack.

I had my own Shadows but he can't find enemy Shadows. Is this intended? Is it even possible to kill them?

I can see from 0.16 change log that now even Assassins will get marksmen ability and be invisible. I don't like that change. It's tedious and unfun to keep creating weak units to put in with casters - too much micromanagement.

 

[Sureshot]

shadows are supposed to be able to see other shadows i believe

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Believe me, Alchemistor, a lot of people agree with you. Might I suggest playing as the Malakim in the next patch? All units are visible in their borders.

As for how to balance it... are there any units that always defend regardless of the marksman promotion? Don't the royal guard do that? What about shield walls? It ought to be a promotion you can choose, to be able to defend regardless of other circumstances.

 

[Kael]

Let me congratulate you on a truly wonderful mod. Reminds me of Master of Magic from long ago, but it's even better in my opinion.


In my latest game, Ljosalfar's Shadows started killing off my high level casters and there doesn't seem to be anything that I can do to counter that other than put workers or some other weak units in the caster stack.

I had my own Shadows but he can't find enemy Shadows. Is this intended? Is it even possible to kill them?

I can see from 0.16 change log that now even Assassins will get marksmen ability and be invisible. I don't like that change. It's tedious and unfun to keep creating weak units to put in with casters - too much micromanagement.

Assassins arent invisible.

 

[rief_s]

Only Floating Eye, Kithra, Marksman (unit) and Sand Lion has see invisible 'invisible_land'. Shadow only has see invisible 'invisible_animal'. That's why shadow can't see other shadow.

 

[Alchemistor]

My mistake. Assasins only invisible when they are in forests or jungles and have Forest Stealth.

Well we'll see how the next patch plays out. But I'm suspecting that a caster counter is not really necessary and will lead to more tedium as players try to protect them. If casters are powerful the player should make it a priority to get them. Rock-scissor-paper type of gameplay, where you always need a counter to everything else, usually don't lead to more fun gameplay.

Thanks for the explanation rief_s. Boy this game is getting pretty complicated, but in a good way.

 

[Yorgos]

Kael, there's so much talk about modifing some promotions and you haven't given your opinion. Undecided? What do you think?

Personally I like Qes' ideas, though we should take care that they will not create new imbalances.

 

[Xanikk999]

Hey kael listen to this idea i think this idea you might actually use for once!

The tax office right now only gives a little unhappiness but i had an idea to make it more interesting.

Instead of the 1 or 2 unhappy faces it gives why not give 1 unhappiness per 10% gold rate. And in return you get at least 100% or maybe even 120% gold bonus.

This way you would almost certainly not build it in all your cities... And it would be balanced because of that and also you would not get much gold if it was only 10 or 20% tax on the slider.

Tell me what you think. I think this is a good idea and i would love to have one of my ideas put in the mod.

Edit: Now that i think about it maybe you should not be allowed to have a gambling house and a tax office in the same city. For balance of course.

 

[QES]

Kael, there's so much talk about modifing some promotions and you haven't given your opinion. Undecided? What do you think?

Personally I like Qes' ideas, though we should take care that they will not create new imbalances.

All I ever asked for in life was an unfair advantage.
-Qes

EDIT: @Xanikk - The main problem is that the AI typically tries to build everything. So do i. I leave most my cities on autopilot and they LIKE that building, build it as soon as its available. Keeping it limited to a static amount of unhappy as opposed to dynamic maintains the general "uptrend" of growth for civ. Remember, a Net gain is necessary - lest civs become stagnant.

 

[Xanikk999]

All I ever asked for in life was an unfair advantage.
-Qes

EDIT: @Xanikk - The main problem is that the AI typically tries to build everything. So do i. I leave most my cities on autopilot and they LIKE that building, build it as soon as its available. Keeping it limited to a static amount of unhappy as opposed to dynamic maintains the general "uptrend" of growth for civ. Remember, a Net gain is necessary - lest civs become stagnant.

Cant you trigger the AI so that it has a very low build priority?

Even if not i thought the AI gets a massive health, happiness, and war wearniess reduction on nearly all levels?

 

[xanaqui42]

Hey kael listen to this idea i think this idea you might actually use for once!

The tax office right now only gives a little unhappiness but i had an idea to make it more interesting.

Instead of the 1 or 2 unhappy faces it gives why not give 1 unhappiness per 10% gold rate. And in return you get at least 100% or maybe even 120% gold bonus.

This way you would almost certainly not build it in all your cities... And it would be balanced because of that and also you would not get much gold if it was only 10 or 20% tax on the slider.

Tell me what you think. I think this is a good idea and i would love to have one of my ideas put in the mod.

Edit: Now that i think about it maybe you should not be allowed to have a gambling house and a tax office in the same city. For balance of course.

I actually think this would be too powerful. Typically, I have a gold rate of 10%-40%. This would allow me to change the gold slider to 10%-20%, thus freeing up more for happiness/research, for a fairly small happiness cost.
I'm not saying that this sort of idea couldn't work, but I think that the bonus is incredible given the penalty. Perhaps something like this could be placed around the end of the tech tree, or weakened a lot (say a 30% gold bonus).

 

[Xanikk999]

I actually think this would be too powerful. Typically, I have a gold rate of 10%-40%. This would allow me to change the gold slider to 10%-20%, thus freeing up more for happiness/research, for a fairly small happiness cost.
I'm not saying that this sort of idea couldn't work, but I think that the bonus is incredible given the penalty. Perhaps something like this could be placed around the end of the tech tree, or weakened a lot (say a 30% gold bonus).

So only a 30% gold bonus for a potential 1-10 unhappy faces? Doesnt do much for an average economy.

I said every 10% gold rate would be 1 unhappiness. Thats the trade off i dont see it as unbalanced.