FfH2 0.21 Balance Feedback

[Jean Elcard]

yeah, that would need a new trait. But dwarves would still be able to build shipyards and ships, so I don't think it would change much from a flavor perspective.

No, they woukdn't be able to build seafaring stuff anymore, at least not with a discount on hammers. Maybe the other way around. More hammers for ships. You know, ships need to be more sturdy to carry dwarves and need an extra cargo room for beer.

My suggestion is to strip down the current three traits to the essentials and put the rest in something I would like to call a flavour trait for each civ. For Kandros Fir it could look like this in the end:

Aggressive:

• Free promotion (Combat I)
  • Melee Units

Financial:

• +1 commerce on plots with 2 commerce

Ingenuity:

• Halves the costs of all upgrades

Khazad Flavour Trait:

• Unique buildings: Dwarven Smithy, Dwarven Vault, ...
• Double procuction speed of: Training Yard, Money Changer, Gambling House, Inn, Brewery, ...
• Halve production speed of: Shipyard, All kinds of Ships, ...
• Can't build: Mages, Summoners, ...

I know this list is not perfect. Maybe some production modifieres should remain with the well know traits to change not more than necessary.

A nice side effect of this would be, that it is more obvious what a civilization is able to build. I remember what a bummer it was quite some time ago, when I first recognized, that there are no libraries availble for Orcs. Very nice to know for people new to FFH.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

trip down the current three traits to the essentials and put the rest in sommething I would like to call a flavour trait

This would be very helpful indeed.

Flavour Trait:

* Unique buildings: Dwarven Smithy, Dwarven Mine, ...
* Double procuction speed of: Training Yard, Money Changer, Gambling House, Inn, Brewery, ...
* Halve production speed of: Shipyard, Ships, ...
* Can't build: Mages, Summoners, ...

Add here:

*Unique mechanics - Dwarven Vault

 

[Love]

Shouldent it be a diplo bonus if you as another civ, re-build barnaxus?

 

[Go Boks]

[*]Halve production speed of: Shipyard, All kinds of Ships, ...

I think that is a terrible idea.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Currently, other civs are incapable of rebuilding Barnaxus

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Not so, you just need open borders with Luchuirp and to move the holder of the pieces into one of their cities. It is rebuilt as a Luchuirp unit. (Unless this was removed without notice.)

 

[Gamestation]

Shouldent it be a diplo bonus if you as another civ, re-build barnaxus?

, quest idea for Shadow phase?

 

[onedreamer]

No, they woukdn't be able to build seafaring stuff anymore, at least not with a discount on hammers. Maybe the other way around. More hammers for ships. You know, ships need to be more sturdy to carry dwarves and need an extra cargo room for beer.

Even if they don't have a bonus on building ships they would still build ships. Even if they would have double costs in building ships they would still build ships. And they would build the amount of ships they need/want, indipendently from production bonus... So in the end they would still be those "ship building dwarves".

On a completely different matter, I think that recon units should be able to grab a medic I promotion, being recon units generally survivalist scouts able to live alone in the wilderness for long periods of time.

 

[Blakmane]

personally I don't see what is wrong with ship building dwarves anyway. Ships are big, inorganic objects of the kind dwarves like, and AFIAK there's no flavour reason why they shouldn't be sailing around. Anyway, their short stature would be an advantage at sea.

I am already imagining steam powered dwarven ships generally kicking arse ;D

Also balance wise it's not a good idea to penalise any race too heavily at sea. All that does is mean noone picks them on archipelago maps.

 

[eerr]

just give dwarves steam powered ships that cost 1.5x as much, and receive metal promotions

 

[Grey Fox]

I would suggest setting a limit on the Ruin's minimum distance to any starting location. Last game I had a Ruin 3 or maybe 4 plots from my capital (Yeah I know I could have taken it out before a Lizardman spawned, but I didnt think about it), and I was stormed by Lizardmen. And that early in the game I couldn't really do anything except defend and hope for the best.

Or make Lizardmen animals, so they cant pillage your territory or attack inside it. Would also make scouts better versus them. Or lower the Lizardmens defense power. (Atleast the Barbarian version)

 

[Grey Fox]

My suggestion is to strip down the current three traits to the essentials and put the rest in something I would like to call a flavour trait for each civ. For Kandros Fir it could look like this in the end:

Aggressive:

• Free promotion (Combat I)
  • Melee Units

Financial:

• +1 commerce on plots with 2 commerce

Ingenuity:

• Halves the costs of all upgrades

Khazad Flavour Trait:

• Unique buildings: Dwarven Smithy, Dwarven Vault, ...
• Double procuction speed of: Training Yard, Money Changer, Gambling House, Inn, Brewery, ...
• Halve production speed of: Shipyard, All kinds of Ships, ...
• Can't build: Mages, Summoners, ...

I know this list is not perfect. Maybe some production modifieres should remain with the well know traits to change not more than necessary.

A nice side effect of this would be, that it is more obvious what a civilization is able to build. I remember what a bummer it was quite some time ago, when I first recognized, that there are no libraries availble for Orcs. Very nice to know for people new to FFH.

I agree with this suggestion, each Civ could have a trait that easily showed what makes them unique. Like the Hippus is getting Horselords trait now.
Calabim could get Vampiric, which could show that they get the Breeding Pit, start with a Vampiric Governor, can't build Elder Council, etc.
But it would be nice if the civ/race specific traits where named like the other traits, so that it isnt called Khazad Flavour Trait, but Dwarven or something.

 

[Grey Fox]

I couldnt find an A.I thread (there used to be one right?), so it was either here or in the Bug thread, but its not really a bug, so I guess I'll post it here.

The A.I doesn't understand that a water walking The Drown is a threat to its land units, which is a problem, especially for its workers. Check this screen:

Spoiler :

They moved the worker there, the turn after I moved my Drowns into the coast tile.
Note: We are at war.

 

[vorshlumpf]

Or make Lizardmen animals, so they cant pillage your territory or attack inside it. Would also make scouts better versus them. Or lower the Lizardmens defense power. (Atleast the Barbarian version)

Lizardmen cannot pillage anyway since they are recon units. However, I agree that they should be reduced in power somewhat, for the ones that come out of ruins.

- Niilo

 

[Grey Fox]

Lizardmen cannot pillage anyway since they are recon units. However, I agree that they should be reduced in power somewhat, for the ones that come out of ruins.

Oh I guess thats why they never pillaged -- I was defending my Gems like no tomorrow.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

How about making lizardmen cheaper to build (for both the Clan and the barbs), but lowering their strength to 3/2?

 

[onedreamer]

Two level 3 spells that are quite underpowered:

Root (Divine, Nature): uneffective in simultaneous mode.
Trust (Sorcery, Spirit): provides +2 bonus with all leaders when cast... it's a one time cast only and if you have more than one archmage with this spell you won't even be able to cast it... I think it wouldn't be unbalancing if you could cast it up to 3 times for a total bonus of +6.

 

[subanark]

Amphibious is rather underpowered since it is exactly the same as in vanilla civ.

I've always though that the creative trait was always underpowered. I would like to see this as +1 border size instead.

 

[Grey Fox]

Amphibious is rather underpowered since it is exactly the same as in vanilla civ.

The bonus from Amphibious is quite powerful if you use it (since they cant attack your wounded soldiers in your ships, unless they got ships or the drown). But I agree, since almost every other promotion was doubled in effect, this one lost some value. Especially since its very situational as well. Maybe add a Bonus when attacking from the sea? Or maybe add a first strike. (Surprising effect?)

I've always though that the creative trait was always underpowered. I would like to see this as +1 border size instead.

I've always found that the creative trait is underestimated. But for some reason I avoid it.

 

[vorshlumpf]

Amphibious is rather underpowered since it is exactly the same as in vanilla civ.

But the penalty for crossing rivers is higher. This promotion gives your unit +40% when attacking across a river. Does that make it sound better. Certainly sounds as good as other situational modifiers, like Elf Slaying.

What would make it better is increasing the penalty to attacking across rivers / from the sea. For instance, give defenders 1 first strike (makes sense), which Amphibious would negate (either by taking away 1 first strike from the defender, or giving 1 first strike to the attacker when attacking across water).

I've always though that the creative trait was always underpowered. I would like to see this as +1 border size instead.

Creative is one of my favourites, so I certainly feel it is fine. I think an additional +1 to culture would be too much.

- Niilo