FfH2 0.21 Balance Feedback

[CuteKills]

ships also seem a little weak to fireballs/meteors, could they get like, +50%?, or have fireballs not able to pass water tiles...(it seems wrong for fire magic to be the end all-be all in the water)

Dunno about that.

Ships of the period are wood+cloth+tar ... which all burn pretty damn well. It really doesn't feell that wrong to me.

OTO a "fireproofing" spell could be useful too, and not just for ships.

 

[Go Boks]

Agreed. Even though ships are surrounded by water, they catch fire pretty easily and burn well. Any seaman knows that fire is of paramount concern and will sink a ship faster than anything else.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

All the Ffh ships seem to be made of wood, so I think they should not be strong against fire. I think that since fireballs fly through the air it is appropriate for them to have water-walking, but that more summons, like lightning elementals, should have it as well. I would prefer if the only change to tsunami was making flooding happen much more often (I prefer to use it for terraforming than for combat). I would like it if tsunami could be used on tiles that are 1 away from the coast diagonally. Tsunmi' range is increased by spell-extension I and II.

 

[kenken244]

i think ships actually should be weak to fire and have some ships get fire strength through some upgrade thingie

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Sounds good to me. Perhaps a spell could give them the Greek Fire promotion or a special building could create ships with it.

 

[eerr]

its just that fireballs and meteors are already so multi purpose...
ahh, i got it!, fireballs and meteors have a 50% chance of being lost in coast or sea
(this doesn't apply to on attack)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't think so. Why should fireballs get lost at sea and not on land? However, if anyone figures out how to make units blind (no line of sight) I think this would be appropriate. That would take away their ability to explore and to find their targets.

 

[eerr]

I don't think so. Why should fireballs get lost at sea and not on land? However, if anyone figures out how to make units blind (no line of sight) I think this would be appropriate. That would take away their ability to explore and to find their targets.

they get wet

 

[Go Boks]

I would like it if tsunami could be used on tiles that are 1 away from the coast diagonally.

You do realise that will not make a navigable waterway, right?

Also, I don't think ships should be given a weakness to fire. The strengths balance out well already.

BTW, I would like a ship that can travel up rivers, but that might be next to impossible to display properly since Civ moved rivers inbetween tiles.

 

[Blakmane]

they get wet

They fly through the air......

Have you ever seen a cannonball randomly get lost at sea as it flies towards its target?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I realize that it wouldn't be navigable, but sometimes I actually do use it against enemies, especially enemy cities if I don't have a maelstrom, crush, or pillar of fire caster nearby. I too would like navigable rivers, and agree that this change would be very difficult.

Perhaps fireballs and meteors could be changed so that they can only move in a strait line. This could be hard to code, but would fit if they are flying through the air like cannonballs. I personally don't mind them as they are, but this could weaken them a little for those of who who think they are too strong.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Perhaps fireballs and meteors could be changed so that they can only move in a strait line. This could be hard to code, but would fit if they are flying through the air like cannonballs. I personally don't mind them as they are, but this could weaken them a little for those of who who think they are too strong.

Yes but.... civ does not allow for 360 degree aiming, like real life would... well, real life + fireballs, anyway.

 

[eerr]

They fly through the air......

Have you ever seen a cannonball randomly get lost at sea as it flies towards its target?

the ones that miss do that alot...

 

[vorshlumpf]

Why are we comparing fireballs to cannonballs?

The problem, in my opinion, with fireballs/meteors is that they are not targettable spells. They are effectively summoning spells that summon a new unit. Instead of trying to impose logical limitations on these pseudo-units, they should be discarded outright.

I know this would be bad for the AI, for the time being - though they aren't that scary with fireballs is it currently is anyway.

- Niilo

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I few things I noticed about Hyborem while conquering him:

1) He really likes windmills. This is generally bad, because they give him useless food, but I've never seen him build a mine. Maybe he could be given a unique 'Infernal Windmill' (need a better name) that gave no food but extra gold? Maybe he could be forbidden from building windmills as well? Maybe preferring to build cottages on hills/grasslands?

2) I've noticed that he doesn't like to raise his cities beyond 20 or so. Probably a sound idea with the happicap, but it does make the swarms of manes that flow to him worse than useless, as (I think) he pays upkeep for them. Why not make it so that each unhappy citizen in Hyborem's empire gives 1 ? As hell's cities fill to bursting, it overflows its borders to take over neighboring nations.

3) Also, I've seen him with 50+ manes wandering around after some purges I'd been doing against AV followers. If you don't implement idea 2, it'd be nice if he had some way to make those manes into something useful without burning tons of gold for upgrades.

4) Doesn't it seem odd that you can capture cities full of undead souls and put them to work for you? I'd give Hyborem sort of a 'reversed scorched earth' trait, so that any cities you take from him would have to be razed.

5) Also... broken lands (grasslands) are pretty crummy for Hyborem. While the plains replacements give him an extra hammer each, the grasslands replacements are pretty worthless. Any way to remedy this without making Hell terrain too powerful for other AV civs?

6) I've also noticed his city population dropping at times. I have no idea what causes this.

7) Could he be made a tad bit more aggressive? I've seen him bordered by some wimpy Luchuirp on one side and the ocean on the other, with literally hundreds of soldiers ready to fight, yet his current war with Basium means that he doesn't want to declare a second war.

Phew... next game, I'll play as Hyborem to see how it runs on his end. These are all just things I've noticed playing against him.

 

[Gelvan]

Why are we comparing fireballs to cannonballs?

The problem, in my opinion, with fireballs/meteors is that they are not targettable spells. They are effectively summoning spells that summon a new unit. Instead of trying to impose logical limitations on these pseudo-units, they should be discarded outright.

I know this would be bad for the AI, for the time being - though they aren't that scary with fireballs is it currently is anyway.

- Niilo

Fireballs need to be in a fantasy game - they are just an absolutely must. and I really don't like the idea, that they are discarded because of SHIPS the most unnescessary unit for me in a civ game (playing pangaea mostly ) - so why not discard ships? because they are just a must-be for a strategy game.

 

[CuteKills]

It might be interesting to have Hell terrain have a different "spread" pattern.

For instance, if it preferred "nice" terrains like grassland, flood plains, farms and forests, you might well get tendrils of it, rather than just a sort of "puddle".

A rationale might be thats there's more intrinsic power to be drawn from the life-energy of those terrains, so spread is simpler.


~~~~~~

Also, how about some "Hell Critters" being spawned in new Hell terrain? Sort of hell-based animal analogues, which will, naturally be much more unpleasant that the normal sort?

The old D&D Stirge would be quite interesting (a small flying critter that sucks blood. These used to arrive in large numbers, and often killed the weaker party members - usually the mages... )

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Chandrasekhar makes some good points. I believe mans can be sacrificed for porduction, I'm not sure if the ai "knows" about it?

I think ai's in general need to be able to evaluate whether their current opponent (possible someone on another continent) really should prevent them from declaring war on someone new. (If they can't, idk the details.)

 

[onedreamer]

I few things I noticed about Hyborem while conquering him:

1) He really likes windmills. This is generally bad, because they give him useless food, but I've never seen him build a mine. Maybe he could be given a unique 'Infernal Windmill' (need a better name) that gave no food but extra gold? Maybe he could be forbidden from building windmills as well? Maybe preferring to build cottages on hills/grasslands?

Food is useful with Conquest. And he likes Conquest, doesn't he ?

2) I've noticed that he doesn't like to raise his cities beyond 20 or so. Probably a sound idea with the happicap, but it does make the swarms of manes that flow to him worse than useless, as (I think) he pays upkeep for them. Why not make it so that each unhappy citizen in Hyborem's empire gives 1 ? As hell's cities fill to bursting, it overflows its borders to take over neighboring nations.

interesting idea. Not sure how the AI would react to it though.

3) Also, I've seen him with 50+ manes wandering around after some purges I'd been doing against AV followers. If you don't implement idea 2, it'd be nice if he had some way to make those manes into something useful without burning tons of gold for upgrades.

When he has that gold. Most of the times he doesn't and will send them to suicide against his enemies. Bad stuff...

6) I've also noticed his city population dropping at times. I have no idea what causes this.

Sacrifice the Weak probably ?

 

[vorshlumpf]

Fireballs need to be in a fantasy game - they are just an absolutely must. and I really don't like the idea, that they are discarded because of SHIPS the most unnescessary unit for me in a civ game (playing pangaea mostly ) - so why not discard ships? because they are just a must-be for a strategy game.

I'm not suggesting taking out Fireball. I'm suggesting a change in how the spell is implemented. There are currently a bunch of problems with fireballs/meteors, some that have been solved with silly work-arounds (like giving them Water Walking).

- Niilo