FfH2 0.30 Bug Thread

[xaliger]

non-elven race (I test with Amurites) can't build lumbermills on ancient forests. I think it was possible in pre-030. Moreover, lumbermills on normal forests will later age to ancient ones with lumbermill still in them. Even more, when forest ages when worker is building the lumbermill, the process is broken and nothing is built (resulting in ancient forest without lumbermill).

Becouse of this, I found Leaves quite useless for non-elven races

 

[Jean Elcard]

Don't know, if it was mentioned before, but the three hill giants can't use neutral roads. Had to learn it the hard way, when they didn't get to the place they were needed urgently in time. Probably this is a problem for all hidden nationality units.

 

[Sarisin]

Had the clan casted "For the Horde" yet? If the lizardman spawned to guard a jungle ruin or something, I could see the Clan gaining a couple quite early.

I don't think so. I try to be very alert for every message now - there are so many it is easy to miss one now and then. Or, is it possible, the message didn't appear?

Anyway, the Lizardman was exploring just like I was, not guarding anything. As the Clan was not too far from me on the map, I just assumed somehow he was built.

Thanks for your suggestion.

 

[Sarisin]

patch e
Another funny behavior *Seems* my hidden nationality units loose the ability to heal outside my borders. when i first built them i swear i was able to heal them in neutral or enemy territory, but after a awhile the icon suddenly vanishes. I thought at first some mana type might be preventing me from healing in my enemies territory but for 2 things, i couldn't heal in neutral territory either, and the AI wasn't building mana nodes(besides, i've always seen the option it just reports something ubsurd like 30 turns to heal)
i, however was building mana nodes. maybe something really hinky with the bonus/penalty system for death and body mana?...

no afflictions to them to prevent healing. it was with multiple types of units, all hidden nat, (the three giants, some assassins, and a night watch).guess if i were smart i would have declared nationality and seen if they could heal then, but since patch f broke the save games...
my searches found nothing, which is pissing me off cause i know i saw someone else mention it.

Yes, this did come up in another thread. I brought up the abominably long healing times for HN units. I would win a battle with Curley, for example, and he would be damaged from only strength 7 to 6.X and it would take 10 turns for him to heal. Someone suggested it made sense because of the time it would take to get supply wagons or whatever to the wounded Hill Giant through a civ's territory you didn't have an open borders agreement with. But, I think the healing time for HN units is bad no matter where they are injured.

Still, they seem to heal in my experience over time. I've never seen them stop healing altogether like you are seeing. Clearly the way to go is to send them out with a unit (has to be HN also if you are off to create some havoc) with Medic I or II. Then, I find they heal as fast as other units.

My suspicion is that there is something broken with the healing mechanism in HN units, though.

 

[Sarisin]

Today I got one of those in-game popups or Sid's Tips or whatever. It coaxed me to build an ADEPT because I had much unimproved land, etc.

I didn't have any mana nodes that could be worked.

 

[DemonMaster]

Today I got one of those in-game popups or Sid's Tips or whatever. It coaxed me to build an ADEPT because I had much unimproved land, etc.

I didn't have any mana nodes that could be worked.

But an adept (with spring spell) can fix up desert tiles.

 

[Opferlamm]

Yes, this did come up in another thread. I brought up the abominably long healing times for HN units. I would win a battle with Curley, for example, and he would be damaged from only strength 7 to 6.X and it would take 10 turns for him to heal. Someone suggested it made sense because of the time it would take to get supply wagons or whatever to the wounded Hill Giant through a civ's territory you didn't have an open borders agreement with. But, I think the healing time for HN units is bad no matter where they are injured.

Still, they seem to heal in my experience over time. I've never seen them stop healing altogether like you are seeing. Clearly the way to go is to send them out with a unit (has to be HN also if you are off to create some havoc) with Medic I or II. Then, I find they heal as fast as other units.

My suspicion is that there is something broken with the healing mechanism in HN units, though.

some mana influences the healing, I think entropy lowers the healing rate for enemy units, that could be the reason for slow or stopped healing outside your cultural borders.

 

[Tielby]

non-elven race (I test with Amurites) can't build lumbermills on ancient forests. I think it was possible in pre-030. Moreover, lumbermills on normal forests will later age to ancient ones with lumbermill still in them. Even more, when forest ages when worker is building the lumbermill, the process is broken and nothing is built (resulting in ancient forest without lumbermill).

Becouse of this, I found Leaves quite useless for non-elven races

I believe this is intended. It makes sense that the FoL religion would prevent you from logging ancient forests (unless you are elven and know exactly how to do it without damaging the delicate balance of nature ) I'm sure the behavior you describe was the same pre-030. Hence the reason I avoid FoL until after my lumbermills have been built. As a last resort, I've burned down my own ancient forests so that I could build lumbermills before they grew into ancient forests again.

 

[Ambreville]

Here are a few things that happened in a game I ran yesterday:

I ran the Amurites (Valledia, eventually with Empyrean State Religion), on a standard size balanced map, normal speed.

1.) I never got access to the Amurites World Spell.

2.) At one point a stack of units I marched into Varn Gosam's lands (my vassal, with Order State Religion) reverted to Varn Gosam ownership. No message. Is this some new-fangled spell?? I could not duplicate this effect.

3.) My Chalid Astrakein cast Righteous Cause next to a Khazad city... and provoked a war. This one was reproduceable. There was no warning it should cause a war.


File Here

 

[dot]

I've only been playing the elves so far. So here are a couple of things that bug me (Shadow, using patch e). I'm pretty sure that not everything is a bug. Some might only be cosmetic issues. But I decided to post it here. If that's not correct please point me to it and I'll spoiler it.

1. Elven Improvements
   Under Fire the Elven Improvements were kind of unique. Now they aren't. This has been mentioned before. I have no problem with the cosmetic issues whatsoever. The following improvements that can currently be built under forests seem - to different degrees - questionable to me for gameplay and logic related reasons:
   • Mines - I can imagine that it'd work technically. But I think that mines under forests are slightly overpowered.
   • Watermills - I appreciate that they can be built under forests now. Makes some sense, too.
   • Windmills - They make no sense at all in a forest since they'd hardly get any wind. I think that they are way overpowered.
   • Workshops - Haven't tried them yet.
   • Lumbermills - I'd definitely take them out of the elven workers arsenal. For reasons of being in tune with the spirit of the FoL and the supposed elven attitude towards trees.
2. Animals
   It seems to me that there is an incredible number of bears on highland maps. The other animals are rather underrepresented. I'm not sure if this is only true for Highlands or for other map types, too. Was this intended?
3. AI behavior
   Several points have already been reported. Here are the ones that bug me the most:
   • Obsessive construction of Forts etc on perfectly decent squares in the BFC.
   • Military units wandering around in the wild while their home turf is under heavy attack.
   • Acheron is for some reason not spawning.

Other news: ..... ..... ..... ..... I don't like Shadow, Oh no, I love it!

Thanks for keeping this up. And I'm really relieved to see the affinity bug fixed. A strength 42 Kithra has been no fun. I've already told you but here goes again: "Thank you Snarko!"

 

[jenks]

Elven Improvements
Lumbermills - I'd definitely take them out of the elven workers arsenal. For reasons of being in tune with the spirit of the FoL and the supposed elven attitude towards trees.

I second that one on a flavor perspective. Elves shouldnt be production heavy, but a forested mine is more powerful than this anyway

Animals
It seems to me that there is an incredible number of bears on highland maps. The other animals are rather underrepresented. I'm not sure if this is only true for Highlands or for other map types, too. Was this intended?

I noticed that on about four games after about turn 75 the only animals left in my world are bears and elephants. Every other animal has disappeared!

To me this is because they have the highest base strength (elephants), and a high base strength with a 'spawn shop' (bears - den)

Other animals:

Gorilla - too rare without anywhere it regularly spawns
Lion - common but too weak, have not seen one 'evolve' into the lion pride in 0.30
Panther - too rare to survive without anywhere it regularly spawns
Spider - always see a couple early on but then they seem to die off quick
Wolf - common but too weak, have not seen one 'evolve' into the wolf pack in 0.30


I posted some suggestions in the balance thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=254862&page=10 see copied below)
Suggestions to balance animals a little (only having the currently useless elephants by the time i get a beastmaster is naff!)

* Raise the rate at which lions may grow into Lion Pride

* Raise the rate at which wolves may grow into Wolf Packs

* Raise spawn rate of Tiger (or allow spawning affinity outside of jungle ie forest)

* Raise spawn rate of Gorilla (or allow spawning affinity outside of jungle ie forest)

* Raise the chances of Baby Spider spawning from 5% to 25% (I have yet to see one)

* Change Baby Spider from 20 % chance of growing into giant spider on victorios battle (20% chance is never going to happen unless you find nearly dead units) to be something more like 5% chance of growing into giant spider per turn

* Make capturing the elephant useful and a prerequisite of the War Elephant i.e. Wild Elephant upgrades to War Elephant

 

[Inkling]

Yes, this did come up in another thread. I brought up the abominably long healing times for HN units. I would win a battle with Curley, for example, and he would be damaged from only strength 7 to 6.X and it would take 10 turns for him to heal. Someone suggested it made sense because of the time it would take to get supply wagons or whatever to the wounded Hill Giant through a civ's territory you didn't have an open borders agreement with. But, I think the healing time for HN units is bad no matter where they are injured.

Still, they seem to heal in my experience over time. I've never seen them stop healing altogether like you are seeing. Clearly the way to go is to send them out with a unit (has to be HN also if you are off to create some havoc) with Medic I or II. Then, I find they heal as fast as other units.

My suspicion is that there is something broken with the healing mechanism in HN units, though.

ah, thank you. glad to know the thread was there even if i can't find it.

and just to be specific, which i should have done in the first place, the button to tell the unit to "wait till healed" is gone, not greyed out or anything, but completely gone. i'd swear it was there before and then one turn ill look and its simply not there.
not only is the button gone, but skipping several turns/fortifying doesnt result in even a fraction of the units health returning. the behavior occurs both in enemy, barbarian and neutral territory so you must run all the way back to your own to heal.


also, a side note or two since dot's post reminded me

edit: jenks beat me to it

i have seen exactly 1 gorilla since .30, and only 1 naturally occuring tiger, along with only a couple of lions and wolves(the rest were natures revolt.) most of the rest is bears, which are the only animals i have seen build dens anymore, probably why there are so many. this is despite leaving the animals alone for multiple turns after the natures revolt in the hopes they'd build dens. so basically the grand menagerie is virtually impossible to build now.

spiders are also ridiculously rare, 1 every couple of games at most. This is with raging barbarians and barbarian world.

barbarians on the whole are few and very far between, but i was sorely disappointed to see hell fires don't seem to spawn anything, even after letting them sit for over a dozen turns. they had only the single sect of flies gaurding them and nothing else. i was watching a couple, and just checking up on several others which were in neutral territory, but never saw anything spawn from them. i was kinda hoping that demons would come pouring out of the bowels of hell, but hell appears to be constipated.

 

[JohnNorth]

I played a multiplayer game with the Kuriotates yesterday and have to annotate two things.

First:
- In my Singleplayer games I always can choose if a new/captured city schould be a real city or just a settlement. In my multiplayer game yesterday I could not choose at all.

Edit: Just read in annother thread, that is a feature - not a bug - so forget about this one... sry

Second:
- I played really definsive and long just to see (and try out) the golden dragon for once. The armageddon counter was allready 100 (huups ) so there were some really bad creatures out in the dark... and than it happend. My ancient huge bad edacious golden dragon got fear. That was so rediciolous, I loughed my head off. Maybe should reconsider to give make him immune to fear...

 

[DemonMaster]

There are more tings in the game that should have at least a resistance to fear, illusions, puppets, mindless undead/demons, and yes dragons.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Today I got one of those in-game popups or Sid's Tips or whatever. It coaxed me to build an ADEPT because I had much unimproved land, etc.

I didn't have any mana nodes that could be worked.

That's because the AI thinks of them as workers in order to persuade it to build them, and the build suggestions use the same logic the AI does to decide what to produce. The fact that it never suggests unit-enabling buildings is telling

 

[Saien]

Reported back in patch A and twice since and just verified once again on patch F.

Enraged does not remove either by time or by combat. This means that if your unit gets Enraged it -will- become a barbarian. Period. It's only a question of time.

This is not only a change from 0.23, but contradicts the 0.30 Changelog:

26. Wrath Unleashed event applies the enraged promotion to units instead on instantly converting them to barbarians (use them or lose them).

The current situation is "lose them, eventually, no matter what you do"

In addition to Wrath, this affects mutation (Cultist spell, Chaos mana event, Balseraph Freak), Werewolves, Lunatics and other units created in a city with an Asylum, etc. In fact, the current situation makes the "Crazed" promotion redundant, as it exists only to re-apply Enraged occasionally. Since Enraged never goes away there is no need to re-apply it.

 

[Ambreville]

Reported back in patch A and twice since and just verified once again on patch F.

Enraged does not remove either by time or by combat. This means that if your unit gets Enraged it -will- become a barbarian. Period. It's only a question of time.

This is not only a change from 0.23, but contradicts the 0.30 Changelog:



The current situation is "lose them, eventually, no matter what you do"

In addition to Wrath, this affects mutation (Cultist spell, Chaos mana event, Balseraph Freak), Werewolves, Lunatics and other units created in a city with an Asylum, etc. In fact, the current situation makes the "Crazed" promotion redundant, as it exists only to re-apply Enraged occasionally. Since Enraged never goes away there is no need to re-apply it.

Doesn't the Loyalty spell prevent units from turning barbarian anymore??

 

[Saien]

Yes it does but that doesn't resolve two of the issues anyways:

Crazed is still redundant.

"Use it or lose it" isn't accurate, as use has no effect on the chance of loss.

It's an unmentioned change, and in light of the other issues would seem to be unintentional.

 

[Ambreville]

Yes it does but that doesn't resolve two of the issues anyways:

Crazed is still redundant.

"Use it or lose it" isn't accurate, as use has no effect on the chance of loss.

It's an unmentioned change, and in light of the other issues would seem to be unintentional.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think there are bigger problems to deal with as far as bugs and general design are concerned.

 

[Saien]

We're devolving dangerously into discussion at this point, however the fix is to change bRemovedByCombat XML tag to 1 in the PROMOTION_ENRAGED block. Not exactly intense work.

However, were I to do so for myself that would mean no more MP games.

New Bug: If Mutation gives Heroic Strength or Heroic Defense to a unit, that unit may later be able to upgrade to the second level even without being a Hero. (Solution would be to change requirements to Hero && Heroic Strength I to be able to upgrade)