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FfH2 0.32 Balance Feedback

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Grey Fox, May 23, 2008.

  1. Shakiko

    Shakiko Warlord

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    I don't think its unfitting per se - just abit... evil :devil:
    So how about modifying your alignment towards evil if you (let ppl) rob your own graveyards ?
    Or is this only implementable with a broader alignment system ? *hint,hint*

    "Greedy ol' bastard, I'll tell ya"
     
  2. Kael

    Kael Deity

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    I like this idea. Im going to play with it and if it works out I'll add it in 0.33.
     
  3. Uberness

    Uberness Warlord

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    Aug 15, 2006
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    Minor balance problem with the Muirin clan goblin event, it can trigger on top of a city and cause it to permanently have -1 food for the rest of the game, and the only way to prevent it is to have nature mana, really should be a check to make sure it can't happen on a city tile, and maybe add some other ways to prevent the outcome.
     
  4. CypherKnight

    CypherKnight Chieftain

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    Jan 13, 2008
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    The only thing that bothers me really about the Muris clan goblin event is like many others once you get it once you can assume you'll see it again.

    As an aside for some reason I've noticed that the tiles affected by the goblins usually get penguins later. So for me it's all good but it really is one of my least favorite events to get, maybe add an option for water mana as well (spring washes away the waste) to make a bit less of a pain.
     
  5. Milosrdenstvi

    Milosrdenstvi Chieftain

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    The only time I had significant numbers of high priests was playing Varn Gosam on Nikis-Knight's super-huge map. Malakim expanded in all directions and spread Empyrean to each city until I had cultural borders on all sides (no more easy cities) in the middle of all that, switched to Charismatic. After worldspell I had great number of priests 3-4 xp away from Luridus promotion. So in a few turns, I not only have the 4 Luridus but around 12 others just waiting to be promoted. That many units casting Crown of Brilliance is pure deadly. It was awesome.
     
  6. uberfish

    uberfish Immortal

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    Apr 4, 2006
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    The complaining citizens didn't loot the graves, the army did. Discovering technology from your own graveyards certainly is weird though.

    actually there's another idea for an event: "A military unit was caught grave robbing..."
     
  7. smusebaer

    smusebaer Warlord

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    Oct 12, 2006
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    Perhaps flesh golem should be limited in number. At least if they can cast spells. (every one of this golem has move 4, flying, and can cast Body 3, Mind 3 and min 1 levl. 3 Spell)
     

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  8. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I'm pretty sure they are not supposed to be able to cast spells. The code removes Channeling 1-3 and Divine (it used to remove Sorcery and Summoning too, before they are removed from the game), which before the lines were removed would have made casting impossible. I really think that all the spell sphere promotions should be removed too.

    Also, they are supposed to be limited by the number of potential casters. Letting them get Body III really breaks this.

    I also still think that it is wrong for Mokka's cauldron to create flesh golems. This detracts from the spell. It would be quite simple to make it create Skeletons (with appropriately modified strength) instead.
     
  9. smusebaer

    smusebaer Warlord

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    They where cast by archmages, with get crafted into them, to make room for more archmages.
    I agree, that a Fleshgolem should be a physikal Force, and not a magical one. But the fastes way to limit this break is to limit the number of fleshgolems to 4 like national units.
     
  10. Uberness

    Uberness Warlord

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    I wouldn't mind seeing high priests being made more accessible, and stop priests from upgrading to druids, making super druid highpriests, sure you need to be neutral, but a extra 4 units that can use rank 3 divine spells like crown of brilliance and cure? yes please.
     
  11. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    My main balance issues (mostly obvious ones that have been suggested many times)
    a) Hippus horse mercenaries, way too strong. Fix with some combination of: no more metals bonus, drop strength by 1, double cost, limit generation to one per turn.
    b) Insanity of elves with ancient forests. A partial solution is a *big* nerf in the time that it takes for forests to spawn into ancient forests. Forests mean that health is irrelevant and give big production bonuses, ancient forests provide crazy food and mean that you can cottage everything and have high food, gold and hammeres, and then the GoN civic makes happiness irrelevant too.

    c) Many useless civics, partly because civics upkeep costs are so high that its almost never worth using anything with high upkeep. Positive health upgrades are also pretty useless considering their upgrades.
    d) Weakness of archery line. Either give them bombardment, give them a free shock promotion or give them a couple of free first strikes. Or try something like attacks of opportunity from civ3, let them take a free shot at anything attacking their tile (so massed archers are very hard to break)
    e) Weakness of drill promotion line. Add 5% strength bonus at each level.
    f) OPness of stack effect spells. Chalid is insane and is available way too early for his power, maelstrom and tsunami are also very OP.
    g) war weariness seems broken. why do I get very high war weariness from capturing enemy cities, and from my summoned units dying (could be imagining this). don't know if 3.17 changes have many any difference here. As long as my soldiers are doing fine and not suffering casualties, I shouldn't be suffering war weariness. Think c19 British empire jingoism - no-one in London is unhappy as soldiers are off conquering Africa and India without losing significant soldiers.
    Also, war weariness needs to wear off faster.
    h) very very high costs for some high end techs, like the tech for phalanxes (after mithril working, dont even remember the name) or the tech for immortals, or similar. Also; marksmen need mithril?
    i) some underpowered buildings. weaponsmith, for eg. Often insufficient reward for investing in infrastructure, and hammer costs for buildings are very high given how few boosters for hammers there are (and how unavailable engineers are - no equivalents to levee, railroaded mines, industrial park, factory with power, etc.).


    I also think that the single biggest AI weaknesses comes from a) their inability to prioritize education to get some cottages up early -> very behind in tech.
    b) Inability to abuse Agriculture civic by farming grasslands and cottaging plains c) overexpansion leading to high maintenance costs and armies of warriors paying upkeep d) willingness to throw huge stacks of units at well-defended cities with walls. AI should evaluate the cumulative probability of victory before such a frontal assault, and if there isn't a good chance of taking the city it should just pillage instead - I hardly ever see AI pillaging effectively, especially with horseman type units (move, pillage, move back to stack). AI needs to learn to bombard with catapults better, mostly it just throws them into the meatgrinder with little effect.
    It seems like the AI makes a decision about sending a stack to a city and starts moving the stack towards the city, and then doens't re-evaluate if the city is reinforced before the stack gets there in such a way that the assault would be futile.
     
  12. Annex

    Annex Tyranny and Mutation

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    I agree the amount of war weariness is a bit out of control. One game as the Bannor I had a defensive war with the Doviello (little losses on my side, many on thiers.) By the time the war ended i had eleven war weariness unhappines in my capitol. Just a little over ten turns later he delcared war on me again, and on the next turn i automatically get eleven war weariness in my capital. Luckily i was able to use the Crusade civic. This presents another problem, as eliminating the amout of war weariness in the game eliminates the importance and usefullnes of this civic.
     
  13. feydras

    feydras Prince

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    This has been on my mind since the port over to BtS but i've not mentioned it. BtS considerably upped the expense of cities not connected by land, ie overseas or just offshore. While this theoretically effects all civs equally depending on the map it probably tends to hurt the Laun more as they are designed to thrive on water and probably have a greater tendency to settle islands.

    A possible counter to this could be eliminating the "colonial" maintenance adjustment through the Seafaring tech.
     
  14. xalien

    xalien Prince

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    Jul 18, 2005
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    Guild of hammers and GE - as soon as you research engineering you get a very nice wonder and means to insta-build it. I'd suggest to move the GE a little farther down the line, Machinery maybe.
     
  15. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    Just wanted to second this. I'm not too happy with the colonial expenses to begin with and would like to see them dropped if not lowered. Barring that, have it be a unique Lanun thing to not have would be good and certainly encourage more island populating by them. Would also allow them to more easily consider transcontinental conquest.
    My personal dream would be something like no colonial expenses whatsoever for anyone (makes it too annoying to take over the world properly) and make all Lanun cities that are on the coast significantly lowered in distance-from-palace costs, maybe even by 100%. If they're connected to the ocean, the distance doesn't matter.
    Let's take it a step further. All Lanun cities not connected by to the coast have their distance cost doubled. Connected via a rivet would result in a "normal" distance cost. Would certainly shape the way the Lanun cities are placed.
     
  16. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Oh, yeah, I meant to add this to my list. Engineering is far too strong. The AI doens't prioritize it, so its very easy to beeline for the guild of hammer and free great engineer -> instant 25% empirewide production bonus. Its normally gg for the poor AI at that point. Its so strong I do this every game. I'd take away the free great engineer; push that back a tech, make the guild have to be built the slow way.
     
  17. Gelvan

    Gelvan Prince

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    I suppose that was discussed already, but don't you think Tsunami is really causing havoc on AI's? [I don't know if the AI uses it on higher levels than Warlord more often to cause havoc on the human too, though]. On the other hand, OO seems a bit weak (alas: to me. so if I miss an important part of this religion, just tell me ;) ) compared to the other religions (especially since Empyrian makes a culture boost too), so maybe Tsunami's strength is kind of balancing that. Even though the question: Are cultists maybe to early for that spell?
     
  18. Zechnophobe

    Zechnophobe Strategy Lich

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    This is another, fairly 'little' thing, that does get to me sometimes.

    The Cult of the Dragon is potentially a really awesome thing in the late game, for the Kurio's to have gotten going. But a lot of games I play with them, it never founds, or if it does, it never goes outside my empire.

    I'm wondering if we could maybe have the event a little more common, and perhaps make some kind of strategy for them to attempt to spread it. Maybe a Dragon Priest that can build a Dragon Shrine in a city (Like normal priests build temples). Except instead of it automatically spreading the religion (Since that'd be too strong I think) it simply increases the chance the city will get Dragon Cult spread to it.
     
  19. smjjames

    smjjames Emperor

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    yea, I've seen the cult of the dragon in a few screenshots, but I've NEVER seen it come up in a game, ever, since I started playing FFH2.

    Then again, I haven't played that many games as the Kuriotates or Sheaim (I've had games with either one in the game). But seeing how it's an important late game strategy and a piece of lore for both the Kuriotates and Sheaim, it's incredibly rare.
     
  20. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    It isn't that rare, but only if the Kuriotates or SHeaim are in the game, and choose to let the guild be founded. I'm not sure that they should really get a choice.


    I;m thinking that in my version I'll add a Dragon cultist that spreads the cult like a normal executive (FfH doesn't have any of those) instead of through a spell. Thus it could have a cost and could fail. I'll probably let these units move through rival territory without open borders, and might make them start crazed. Any civ with a city with the normally harmful cult could purposefully spread it to their rivals.
     

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