FfH2 0.32 Bug Thread

[MondSemmel]

Kind of realistic don't you think? Undead taking slaves? Maybe creating more skeletons would be a better choice

Undead taking slaves? No. But I thought Summons had no free will (otherwise they also wouldn't be limited to one's number of Adepts who can summon skeletons). If they had a free will/their own agenda, what stops them from killing their own masters? And if they have no free will, the same thing that makes them not kill their masters ought to make them not kill their prey if their masters command it. Besides, if the enslaving chance is 25%, then in 75% of the cases, the enemy still dies, even against living units. Having about one in four opponents of a skeleton survive sounds realistic to me, and even if it didn't, it makes sense gameplay-wise.

This isn't what makes Slavery useful, its the pop-rushing ability.

I know that, but part of the Slavery civic is getting slaves, and to me, these slaves seem worse than they could/should be for balancing reasons. I'm not suggesting to make the pop-rushing any better, of course, I know that's very powerful. Besides, the pop-rushing is really strong, but not really unique, and we already know it from normal civ4/bts. Slaves are a new feature in FFH and therefore deserve to be useful to add to the game's depth.
Besides, by rushing buildings, you sacrifice your slaves instead of using 2 slaves as a worker or using them for the Freak Show/Arena as Balseraphs, and right now this drawback seems hardly worth it.


I'm sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, though.

Making assumptions into rules is not a nice thing to to.

I think the point was that it was not listed in the changes and therefore is either an undocumented change or a bug. That's the only known thing, the rest is speculation .
Besides, right now, the AI probably can't handle this, and that's a huge issue.

@ Kael: What about the Bug with Sidar-Units of Level 6 not being able to shade? I think its quite a major bug for the playablitiy of the Sidar.

This is supposed to be fixed in patch a. See this item: "3. Fixed the Wane spell.". I haven't tested it yet, though.

 

[Niveras]

Did anyone else noticed that discovering ressources on mined hills became very rare? (I know it's supposed to be rare, but still)
In addition (or maybe the only problem/bug) it seems that earth mana doesn't increase the odds anymore.
I'm playing Khazad with 3 Earthmana at around turn 280 (quick speed) and not a single ressource has been discovered yet.

I've already observed this in 0.31 a lot.
Before 0.31 (or maybe 0.30) at lot more ressources were discovered with multiple earth mana.
Am I missing any changes on these odds resp. Earthmana or is it possible that Earthmana is bugged and thus don't effect the odds of resource discovery anymore?

I noticed that as well in one of my games, where by the end of it I had 30-50 mines and 10 earth mana, and I never once got a discovery. I decided to stack the odds one day by increasing the earth mana discovery rate (from 20 to 100 in XML) and giving myself 50 earth mana from WB, of course from mana nodes and connected with roads. I started getting discoveries every turn, but only one, and sometimes not even one. Something is definitely different from previous versions, where I thought you could get more than one discovery per turn, but that could simply be faulty memory. At this point it's hardly worth mentioning that earth mana increases the resource discovery rate, since you need dozens to have any appreciable effect.

If I did not know better, I would not be surprised if the lowered rate of discovery resources was somehow tied to the events, but that is pure speculation, since I really have no idea how resource discovery is handled.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Only that it is no bug but a feature (sorts of ). At least in the way that they can build improvements in Jungles from turn 1. So either they lose the ability to build in Jungles or cutting the abilty to cut jungles from them makes sense perfectly (balancwise. Its a little late-game tradeoff for beeing able to utilze Jungles from turn 1. It could be rated as a semi-bug in the sense that Jungles are not Forests and Elves ought to have synergy with forests. But thats questionable Flavorwise. Perhaps also its not so easy to separate. Or might even be fully intended. But only the team will know that and beeing able to answer. If they like. ).

In fact its not a disadvantage but a advantage so coming down hard is not very much justified here. (after all everyone else needs to wait for either Fire + KotE or Sanitation to use Jungle-Resources usefully most of the time. Elves needn't)

Making assumptions into rules is not a nice thing to do.

You can justify it either way as much as you want. I just want to know if it was intended. Trying to rationalize 'why it makes sense' for the change to be made is immaterial. I'm working off of exactly two bits of irrefuteable data:

1) No note was made in the changelog about the elves having different interaction with swamps.

2) They now interact with swamps differently.

If it's working as intended, that's fine. But it is our due cause to report anomalous behavior if we find it.

 

[Blackmantle]

Sorry for being so blind about wane.



@ Zechnophobe: The jungle thing has already been reported often though (under balance and bug.) and no official comment so far if i remember rightly. So im rather sure it at least has allready been noticed.
But thats speculation. Given...

But why are Jungles = Swamps? (I hope we are one time going to see swamps in the main-game. As a new terrain type... But thats just wishful thinking. ) In fact Jungles have a lot more in common with forests than with swamps.
(That game-misrepresentation featurewise (unhealthyness) i think stems from a missing representation of Jungles in the Civ-Series as a whole though.

Modern knowledge should suggest, that any single patch / tile of Jungle should contain a resource (at least one. ) revealed by very-late game techs (and that whould be removed by chopping them.). Up until recently (until about 20-century perhaps, but thats a very rough estimate naturally. ) they have mainly been places of danger for most humans.
But not anymore. But given, that doesnt fit FFH2 and its rather medival background.)
Its sad that the series goes with the "cut-down the jungles, they are worthless" for civilisation attitude here (and environmentalism is not even closely a fair representation of the value of jungles. Even by todays standards.).
Perhaps Civ 5 will see a change for the very late-game when / should the first really huge applications have made their impact in the real world until then.
And then on a global level the unhealthyness is also just completely wrong even if perhaps not localy.
Thats just a side note though. sorry for threadjacking.

 

[Alzara]

12. Removed the Succubus selection sound (Im not sure why thats not working).

Awww... will this be reimplemented. I assume you'll figure it out eventually?

Not a fan of manly succubusses

Al

 

[The13thRonin]

Playing as Luchuirp it seems impossible to get druids (the dwarf ones of course) even though I meet both the tech and building requirements. Strange?

 

[Grey Fox]

Playing as Luchuirp it seems impossible to get druids (the dwarf ones of course) even though I meet both the tech and building requirements. Strange?

They also have a neutral alignment requirement.

 

[The13thRonin]

They also have a neutral alignment requirement.

Ah I see... No problem then. My in-game alignment was good. Apologies for the ignorance.

Gunpowder units also don't seem to be ignoring city defense modifiers?

 

[SilentVoice]

Elven worker can't remove jungle.
Fire! Fire! Fire!?

 

[The13thRonin]

Elven worker can't remove jungle.
Fire! Fire! Fire!?

I believe that's a nerf. The scorch spell might work though?

 

[smjjames]

*pokes Kael* you forgot about the fact that both of the elves can't cut down forest AND jungle. The icon is missing.

As I said before, cutting down jungle actually benefits despite thier tree hugging tendencies. For one, jungle gives the same amount of resource as an empty tundra tile (just tundra, not tundra/forest or tundra/hills), and there is the unhealthiness part of it.

@ the 13thronin and others: I know I can use scorch or whatever on it, but you have to wait until you get knowledge of the ether and then elementalism. It may be a nerf, but removing the clear forest/jungle button is still annoying. It works for other civs though.

 

[Amerigo Arturo]

Mushrooms are still popping up on peaks with patch a, looks kind of funny.

 

[Kasdar]

Kind of realistic don't you think? Undead taking slaves? Maybe creating more skeletons would be a better choice

But if I instruct my summons to capture a slave than they should do it.

If I tell my dog to fetch a stick he does that.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

2) [Balance issue, probably not a bug but an unintended (?) side-effect of a change] I tried Slavery with Amurites yesterday and while I enjoyed it, the whole civic (or at least the aspect of enslaving opponents) seemed to be kind of weak already, but (especially if Skeletons won't be able to generate Slaves, either) if most of my units cannot even generate slaves, the civic seems even weaker now. I realize that rushing buildings with Slave Trade may have been overpowered, but I suggest increasing the buying cost of Slaves via Slave Trade and reverting the Slaves to the unnerfed version/at least to a bit stronger version than before. Right now the Slaves I received in a Marathon speed game only gave me 30 hammers (-> 10 or 15 in normal speed, I think?), a bit of a meager reward for killing my opponent's units. More serious problem with Balseraphs and (especially) Taskmasters.

I've been saying for quite some time that the proper way to nerf the slave trade isn't to make the slaves less useful, but to make buying and selling slaves require the Slavery civic. Why would a society not running slavery allow the buying and selling of slaves?

 

[smjjames]

Anyways, I just checked (for patch a) and the elves still don't have the chop forest/jungle icon for workers. Kael, is this intentional or not?

 

[MondSemmel]

I've been saying for quite some time that the proper way to nerf the slave trade isn't to make the slaves less useful, but to make buying and selling slaves require the Slavery civic. Why would a society not running slavery allow the buying and selling of slaves?

Well, for one thing, we are talking about a society that is part of the Undercouncil - they probably won't publically announce the trades, either, isn't it supposed to be more of a black market kind of thing? I don't think restricting part of the undercouncil resolutions to another tech is such a good idea. I do like the idea of somehow connecting Slave Trade and the Slavery civic, though, e.g. making rush-building give 50% more hammers with Slaves if you run the Slavery civic, or making Slave Trade cost vastly less money if you run that civic, or something like that. Essentially, giving Slave Trade limited usefulness if you do not run Slavery (e.g. keeping it as it is now?) and making it useful (not overpowered, just more useful than it is right now) if you run Slavery. I don't think Slaves need a buff altogether, but rush-building with captured Slaves should be a valid option somehow.

 

[xalien]

My latest game:

Hyborem did not drop his weapon when I killed him in his capital city using a souped up death knight. This was the last city so he did not respawn anywhere...

I *think* Orthus never drop his ax when the Kazad killed him.

Got a few memory allocation error CTDs, I have it set to autosave every turn so this wasnt a big one for me.

I killed Orthus right after he took Kuriotate city and he didn't drop axe too.

There's event about goblin clan spilling toxic waste that gives 2 options:
a) do nothing - -1 food on the tile
b) do ... something to prevent it, but it doesn't cost any gold or have any other downsides

There seems to be an xp cap at 100 against barbs, but raider civs can still get their +1 point after each victory .

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Patch A,
My elven workers can't build anything in forests, and I don't see any change log entries to indicate that is intended.

EDIT:: I think this is my fault, some mod error. Carry on.

 

[Breunor]

Is this a bug or intended? The ai is building two and three adjacent forts . Here two examples:
View attachment 177965
View attachment 177966
some of that titles would be better with production...

Would the tiles here have better production? I can't see it that well, but they look like they may be desert -- if so, maybe the AI felt they may as well build a fort.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[MiKa523]

I'm just playing my 2nd game, where it is impossible to spawn Hyborem or Basium, although I'm not using the specific option, which disables them.

These are the game-settings of both games:
-City flipping after Conq.
-Aggr. AI
-No Tech Brokering
-No Vassals
-Wildlands
-Blessing of Ama.
-Living World
-AI no building requirement

Edit: Issue resolved!