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Final Verdict: We want our stack back and other great cIV features!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by NobleJms, Sep 30, 2010.

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Vote for which feature you'd like to see back in Civ V!

  1. Stack (no more 1UPT): much easier to move armies around.

    76 vote(s)
    6.7%
  2. Local happiness instead of the shallow global happiness.

    117 vote(s)
    10.3%
  3. Multiple units for each strategic resource: makes more sense historically

    36 vote(s)
    3.2%
  4. The old slider system: makes for more dynamic gameplay.

    92 vote(s)
    8.1%
  5. No more purchasing units with gold.

    19 vote(s)
    1.7%
  6. Religion: what makes cIV the best in the series!

    169 vote(s)
    14.9%
  7. cIV's great graphics: current graphics in ciV is a joke.

    30 vote(s)
    2.6%
  8. The old map grid: hexes does NOT make CiV look deep!

    2 vote(s)
    0.2%
  9. Something else

    103 vote(s)
    9.1%
  10. Nothing, i like Civ5 how it is :).

    490 vote(s)
    43.2%
  1. gaiko

    gaiko Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
    Messages:
    220
    Surprisingly few selected "Something else". For me the choices allowed were things that I am happy to see gone, with the partial exception of religion.

    The something else would be that civics choices (IV) or social policies (V) have diplomatic consequences in SP, depending on the AI civilization. As it stands now, the AI could care less whether you go down the Tradition, Commerce or Piety branch. This would add another facet to the player's SP choices.
     
  2. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,612
    Location:
    France
    My opinion:
    A better explanation of the game through usable civilopedia instead of the current piece of uselessness, and better details of where the figures come from would be nice.
    And meaningful diplomacy too, in particular with city states which look SO gamey as they are.
    regarding your points:
    1.1UPT is much better than stacks. It reminds me of Civ 1 too btw.
    2. strategic resource system back: The system seems fine as is. I'd probably get totaly rid of strategic resources if anything.
    3. slider: Yes. I don't like much the micromanagement heaviness that's implied by having to tune everything at the city level all the time.
    4. happiness: Can't say I care much about the system. It looks like unhappiness stunts growth, but it happens mostly when you grow your civ militarily so you're growing anyway, so it's a rather pointless system. It's indeed quite shallow.
    5.purchasing units/buildings: Gold should have a use, but speeding up instead of purchasing is better.
    6. religion: Couldn't care less. It was a gamey implementation in civ IV.
    7. Bring back the graphics of cIV: No. Bring back those of Civ II. Seriously. I mean it. WAY better for modding.
    8. map grid: Hexes are way better than squares with their silly 'I move faster along diagonals' symptom.
     
  3. globalempire

    globalempire Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    70
    arent tactics and strategy kind of like the same thing. you know tactics involves planning and strategy and tactics are part of strategy, you know whats the strategy, were going to use the chokepoint to cut them off, tactics thats what that is

    so saying that using tactics as the combat strategy is epic fail is the only epic fail i see
     
  4. Strategy Master

    Strategy Master Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    1. Undecided on this. If we had a stack it should have no combat advantages. I.e. on attack you choose unit in the stack to attack or only one unit in a stack can attack in a turn or something like that. That would make us prefer to seperate our troops in battle but would also allow us to group them all up for easy manoverability.

    2. like this change. Now you also have to guard your resources wisely as if you lose your source those units will perform worse than normally as they cannot be maintained.

    3. Agreed, but in the case of what civ 5 has currently it could be an extra control over happiness. Increase tax you get more unhappiness. Decrease tax you get more happy but less gold overall. Carefully balanced of course.

    4. Both should play a part.

    5. Realism vs gameplay issue this. But this feature has been a common component of civilization games. Realism would be nice but would need to balanced carefully to avoid damaging gameplay.

    6. Yes bring back but in a new way somehow. At the very least it would give us some more diplomacy options.

    7. No real issues with the graphics to me.

    8. No problem with hex's ,its fairer.
     
  5. Stefanskantine

    Stefanskantine Angry Partisan

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Busan, ROK
    I like Civ V the way it is. Stop living in the past! Or, you can always load up Civ IV.

    What we should ask for is instead are some bug fixes, ai improvements, and minor balancing to the good game that is Civ V, so that it will become great.
     
  6. Lightzy

    Lightzy Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    Israel
    haha, poll fail
     
  7. Mrdarklight

    Mrdarklight Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2002
    Messages:
    255
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    I was being snarky. Some of the criticisms are fair: the AI does suck. Do the enemy civs ever build navies? If not then that is a huge issue.

    However, switching from a square grid to hexes? Who thinks that is bad?
     
  8. galahadba

    galahadba Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    103
    Well, it seens that the majority does not agree with you according to your own poll. i for one, had voted on "Nothing, i like Civ5 how it is" of course that by "how it is" i mean the system, the ai and some other things could get improved.
     
  9. Stormbolt

    Stormbolt Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    95
    Stack - DO NOT WANT. There is no strategy involved in making a giant stack of doom and sending it towards the enemy. 1UpT forces you to actually think.

    Happiness - Don't really care one way or another, but global happiness is more realistic.

    Multiple units for each strategic resource - Eh, it depends on the unit in question. I wouldn't mind something like 2 catapults per iron, but more advanced ones should stay as 1.

    Sliders - Sliders were boring, and I'm perfectly fine with their removal

    Purchasing units with gold - Couldn't you do this in Civ IV in the form of rushing production?

    Religion - Was boring, and made diplomacy too simplistic.

    Graphics - ...Please tell me this is a joke response...

    Map grid - Hexes are far better IMO. They're more interesting, and give the world a much better look.

    Overall, I mostly like Civ V.
     
  10. Maxor127

    Maxor127 Warlord

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    229
    I don't want the stack back. The combat is the only decent thing about Civ5. It's everything else that I don't like. Sounds like the final verdict is we DON'T want stacks back. But fix everything else.
     
  11. NobleJms

    NobleJms Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    You do have to admit that in the old days where we had our grids, we were able to move in 8 directions (plus the diagonal)! Now we were only able to move in 6. :(
     
  12. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,778
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    Having played the demo, I can say this:

    For the most part, on Windows XP and hence DX9, the graphics are sub-par in their resolution for the diplomacy screen backgrounds and the terrain. units and buildings are fine.

    While moving armies I can see being a pain with ltos of units, 1UPT is a neat change in direction. The Hex grid is awesome.

    I haven't been able to experiment with the happiness, but individual happiness would make a lot more sense.

    Good riddance to that annoying religion feature.

    Overall I think Civ5 is pretty good and will only improve. I am glad the series is not stagnating and afraid to try something new.
     
  13. TheBlackAdderBG

    TheBlackAdderBG Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Back in Bulgaria
    This is not what i'm saying.I'm saying that the map in its scale is not big enough to operate tactical. There is no room for tactics on the strategy map.(even in huge settings).Not to mention that stacking armies is the why that most of the wars were fought and even to the near past.I would like it if it was made better,not just "units can't stack,archers can shoot".
    Here is where another complain pop up,the missing campaign option.Now they could have been super fun to play in Civ V...ah they will be added as a DLC maybe...And here is where my fears really starts to shows,will be the game moddable enough like previous civs, because the Total War case is possible to happen.
     
  14. Zenstrive

    Zenstrive Ocean King

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    900
    Gender:
    Male
    I want local happiness back. Global happiness feels......overglossing.
     
  15. sgrig

    sgrig Comrade

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,123
    Location:
    Isaac Newton's College
    1) I think 1UPT has potential, but only for military units. Workers should be able to stack. Also your military units should be able to stack with friendly civs' non-military units.
    2) I really don't like global happiness - why should people in LA become happy when I build a theatre in NY? This is just silly.
    3) Limited resources is something I really like in Civ5. This is actually far more realistic than unlimited resources from a single mine. I wish they did the same thing for luxuries and bonus resources.
    4) I want the slider back! Current system is too rigid and too simplistic.
    5) Buying units and building with gold shouldn't be separate from building them, and they shouldn't appear immediately - at least wait until next turn!
    6) I want religion back! (and corporations, and espionage from BtS)
    7) I have a laptop, so Civ5 graphics don't look much better than Civ4, but the game runs slower.
    8) Hex grid is quite good - I like this.
    9) Something else - I want Civ4 diplomacy!
     
  16. Centurio

    Centurio Warlord

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    The Roman Heartlands
    All I want is unit diversity and graphical optimization. Other than that, I'm waiting for pleasant surprises in the expansions and updates. Honestly, this game shouldn't be changed back into Civilization IV.
     
  17. charon2112

    charon2112 King

    Joined:
    May 8, 2009
    Messages:
    990
    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    You don't speak for me, friend-o...and most of your little list here are reasons to like Civ V, IMO.

     
  18. Wosret84

    Wosret84 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    22
    1) No. 1 Unit per tile is fine. It could use some tweaking though, for example with workers. Otherwise it's fine as-is.

    2) Most strategic resources provide more than one of that resource. An iron mine can produce from 2 to 6 irons, if I understand correctly. I like this feature and I think it's more realistic than having a vast army of tanks and motorized vehicles with just one source of oil.

    3) I agree it's more dynamic, and the science system as is needs work, but I don't think we necessarily need to go back to a slider.

    4) This I agree with fully. Per-city happyness makes a lot more sense to me.

    5) I like the ability to purchase things outright. However I think we should have the option to use gold to rush the completion of a building/unit that has already started.

    6) I can go without religion, honestly.

    7) Civ V's graphics are fine. I would just like you to be able to zoom in as close as you could in Civ IV.

    8) No. Hexes are awesome.

    In conclusion I think you basically just wanted an updated copy of Civ IV in Civ V. It's a new game entirely. You have to get used to it. Sure, some things are a little off and some need fixing/patching, but the core game is fine. This post should have been titled "Why isn't Civ 5 an exact copy of Civ 4?"

    As far as some features from Civ 4 that I miss -- world map trading. That's pretty much it. Or conversely, a tech that reveals the entire world map (sats, maybe). I just hope that things like permanent alliances and scripted events that made mods like Road to War are possible for the modding community here. I want to see an awesome WWII mod for Civ V.
     
  19. Wosret84

    Wosret84 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    22
    Tactics and strategy are different, but related. Military tactics regards how you arrange your forces on the battlefield, strategy is how you use them.

    A 'tactical victory' is a victory in which you destroy more enemy units than you lost, a 'strategic victory' is a victory where you accomplish a certain objective beneficial to the outcome of the campaign. The two are not mutually exclusive -- you can have a strategic victory in capturing a city, but a tactical defeat in losing lots of units in the process.
     
  20. Venger

    Venger Give it a tumble, sport

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    782
    How can it remind you of Civ1? The original Civ allowed stacks.
     

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