1. Firaxis celebrates the "Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month", and offers a give-away of a Civ6 anthology copy (5 in total)! For all the details, please check the thread here. .
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Old World has finally been released on GOG and Steam, besides also being available in the Epic store . Come to our Old World forum and discuss with us!
    Dismiss Notice

Finding the Limits of Possibility: A Deity Plus Four Succession Game

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Prof. Garfield, May 16, 2009.

  1. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    I have the game and should start playing soon - I don't expect to finish until next year though ;-).

    An awesome set of turns by Prof. Garfield, I had already decided that I wanted to capture Leo but we already have it. After a quick look it seems to me the best strategy is to continue a full scale war against the Indians for a few turns at least, I usually don't allow the enemy to have more cities than I have on a fairly small landmass like the Indian islands. So capturing more Indian cities should make life much easier over there. Getting cavalry is also a high priority.

    And all of this might change once I take a more careful look at the game.
     
  2. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,818
    Location:
    Ontario
    Here are some screenshots for those who can't load the game.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    One thing I should have mentioned: There is a huge army of barbs around Nonnebakken. It's very tempting to go over there and buy some of these to get NONE units...
     
  4. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    Less than two turns left to play so it's time for some news:

    * Our empire is a mess at the moment
    * Several high priority techs acquired
    * Cities captured and cities lost
    * A tech I didn't want the AI to have acquired from us
    * Wonders built and wonders captured
    * Anarchy, communism and democracy
    * Probably about 20 military units have been lost
    * A certain civ has been significantly weakened
    * A ship magnet has been established
    * Improved transportation network on land and a degraded one at sea
     
  5. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,818
    Location:
    Ontario
    Well, I'll play the teaser game.

    There is a lot of pollution.

    Steel, Conscription, Tactics. Maybe atomic theory (assuming prerequisites for priority techs are also priority )

    We captured cities and they lost them. Perhaps a hamlet somewhere was taken back.

    Probably Conscription, Tactics or Steel.

    You took Delhi and Rome. Someone else built a wonder.

    You took a turn of Anarchy to attack someone, and the AI has switched to communism to fight the war.

    On whose side?

    Does "significanlty weakened" mean destroyed? If so, I think you took Washington so that we could move the army out of Japan.

    I'll take the bait: Lunde has a costal fortress and vet alpine troops behind it.

    We have so much new land that we can use railroads instead of shipchains.
     
  6. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    This has taken an awful lot of time for me to finish but I'm now finally finished playing. I will post the game plus log on Friday or Saturday at last.

    In my opinion this has been by far the most eventful set of turns so far. A lot has happened...
     
  7. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Deity Civ2 GOTM Staff Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    Can't hardly wait to hear/see what you have achieved......but I'm glad you've finished your turns....so I can play it next....:cool:
     
  8. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    Some observations:

    Delhi has the pyramids, colossus, women's suffrage and Marco Polo. I want all of these ASAP, we'll get some of $$ by selling granaries (and no maintainance costs), a freight production center and I want to know more about the Carthaginians (no embassy).

    We can get lots of NONE units by sending a diplomat to the Nonnebakken island.

    I really want to roughly double the number engineers we have (they are only 15), we need RR everywhere and we need lots of additional irrigation.

    There are some huts I'd like to pop.

    1420 AD (0): Rush buy some stuff, including freight demanded in Delhi (colossus). There are no engineers on the Japanese island so rush buy a few. Rush buy a few more engineers. Rehome some units. Rush buy some freight.

    1440 AD (1): The Carthaginians sneak attack, sink two transports (one containing two units) near Lunde and a frigate kills musketeers in Lunde. The Romans sneak attack and kill musketeers next to Rome. The Indians sink a transport near Bombay but another transport survives. The Romans and Carthaginians exchange some techs. Decide to research espionage next. Civil disorder in Byzantium, Holmgard, Nagoya, Nara. We now have 29 engineers as opposed to 15 on the turn before. Barbarian cannon #1 recruited and becomes a NONE unit. Conscription really needed NOW so steal it from the Romans. Nara gold to Lahore (demanded; 582 gold).

    1460 AD (2): Lahore (Indian) builds the UN which is nice because I wanted that city anyway. Carthaginians abandon the UN. We discover espionage :). We now have 32 engineers. Westness coal to Bangalore (demanded; 455 gold). Our spies show that both Rome and Washington are poorly defended. Birka silver to Lahore (demanded; 360 gold). Udal oil to Lahore (not demanded; 206 gold). Uppsala freight to Lahore (not demanded; 172 gold).

    1480 AD (3): Ship magnet established in Lunde (coastal fortress+riflemen). AARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!! Cease fire with the Indians because of the #$*&?# UN. Jarrow dye to Delhi (demanded; 384 gold). Need SOL ASAP. Lahore is defended by 8 (!)musketeers and costs about 8000 gold to bribe. Osaka silver to Bangalore (demanded; 550 gold). Bangalore is a size 40 (!!) city.

    1500 AD (4): Americans develop literacy. Carthaginian ironclads sink two emtpy transports. The ship magnet in Lunde does its job. ARRRGHHH!!! Indians acquire conscription from the Carthaginians. We discover steel. Rome captured, 393 gold plundered. Nara dye to Delhi (demanded; 444 gold). Delhi is defended by only 4 musketeers :):):):). Bangalore is defended by 8 (!) musketeers. Kagoshima silk to Madras (demanded; 552 gold). Kyoto hides to Lahore (not demanded; 222 gold). Aldeigjuborg hides to Lahore (not demanded; 244 gold). Osaka gold to Bangalore (not demanded; 220 gold). Viborg spice to Bangalore (not demanded; 222 gold) and we'll get tactics next turn meaning all of the important (in the short term) techs have been acquired. Rush buy a few cruisers.

    1510 AD (5): The war between the Spanish and the Indians ends. Romans acquire explosives, theory of gravity, communism from the Carthaginians. We discover tactics. Uppsala builds statue of liberty. What the $%%#//!!! Delhi is empty!!? This is too good an opportunity so accelerate the military plans one turn :). Calcutta and Bangalore are suddenly nearly empty as well??!! Looks like the Indians disbanded all of their musketeers (20+) as the first step towards getting riflemen instead?? Sigtuna silver to Bangalore (demanded; 365 gold). The entire Indian mainland will be MINE - Lahore and Madras are also almost empty (one cannon in Lahore and musketeer and dragoon in Madras). VIVA LA REVOLUCION! We break the cease fire, capture Delhi and with it the pyramids, colossus, women's suffrage, 180 gold plundered and theory of gravity acquired. Our reputation is now atrocious at last. Indian government escapes to Bangalore. Refuse any peace talks. Lots of partisans appear. Lahore captured, 296 gold plundered and the UN is ours. Bangalore captured (one cannon lost), 294 gold plundered and Isaac Newton's College acquired. Calcutta captured, 130 gold captured. Madras captured, 124 gold plundered. Disappointment: The Indians no longer want to talk to us. This means (probably) heavy military losses next turn plus some cities lost but still the Indians should be completely destroyed in a turn or two. 100 gold from hut.

    1520 AD (6): Spanish develop magnetism. Indian government changed to communism. The Indians recaptue Madras and plunder 83 gold and get tactics. Remarkably most of the Indian partisans do not move so we only lose Madras and roughly 10 military units. Interim communism government established. The Indian cities are far more expensive than expected even though they don't have a capital. Madras liberated, 414 gold plundered. Refuse peace talks. Bengal bribed for 760 gold, 85 gold plundered. Democracy reestablished. Jarlshof dye to Delhi (demanded; 240 gold). Hispalis hides to Delhi (not demanded; 61 gold). 50 gold from hut. Some Indian partisans bribed.

    1530 AD (7): Spanish acquire industrialization from the Carthaginians and Carthagininans literacy from the Spanish. Carthagininan government has been overthrown. Hyderabad costs 3361 gold to bribe??! Too expensive. City walls destroyed in Hyderabad. Lugdunum bribed for 432 gold, 205 gold plundered. Peace with the Romans (might not last very long :D). Pisae wine to Hyderabad (demanded; 200 gold). Hyderabad captured, 385 gold plundered. INDIAN CIVILIZATION DESTROYED BY VIKINGS. And *lots and lots* of partisans disappear from the former main Indian island. Time to concentrate a bit on infrastructure, our civilization is a bit messy since everything has been completely focused on destroying the Indians for the past few turns and a huge amount of resources spent on achieving that goal. Advanced tribe at (17,7).

    1540 AD (8): The Carthaginians switch to democracy. Infrastructure related stuff. No military action (!) with the exception that one of our cruisers sank a Carthaginians frigate.


    I decided to stop here even though turn 8 isn't completely finished. This gives my successor an opportunity to immediately decide how to organize shipchains and freight deliveries. Our infrastructure is a bit messy at the moment, our enemies sank several transports and everything suddenly got focused on the military in 1510 AD when all of the Indian cities suddenly became (almost) empty. This means that the shipchains are in a mess, some cities are undefended and we lost some military units to partisan attacks when destroying the Indians.

    I was planning to found a city at (67,89). From there we can reach the Carthaginians (Kolhapur) in one turn, either for freight deliveries or military ops.

    Amphibious warfare is becoming a nice-to-have class tech because our cruisers need to recover after sinking several enemy ships.

    We now have all of the important wonders. The next wonder we want is HD and CfC would be nice as well.

    What happened in 1510 AD (the empty/almost empty Indian cities) is one of the more bizarre things that has happened to me when playing Civ2.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    And the real meaning of the teaser above:

    * Our empire is a mess at the moment
    Things were messy at the end of the war with units scattered all over the map, disrupted shipchains, unhappy cities etc.

    * Several high priority techs acquired
    Steel, tactics and espionage.

    * Cities captured and cities lost
    We captured some Indian cities. On the next turn the Indians managed to recapture one city before I managed to destroy them.

    * A tech I didn't want the AI to have acquired from us
    The Indians acquired tactics when they recaptured a city from us but luckily I managed to destroy them before they gave it to anyone.

    * Wonders built and wonders captured
    I built the Statue of liberty to enable me to start a war against the Indians earlier than would otherwise have been possible without several turns of anarchy. Many wonders, including important ones, were captured from the Indians and one from the Romans.

    * Anarchy, communism and democracy
    A revolution so I could declare war on the Indians. At the start of the next turn I selected communism to prevent any ceasefire/peace treaties. At the end of the turn I selected democracy.

    * Probably about 20 military units have been lost
    We lost many units to partisan attacks while destrying the Indians. Our enemies also sank several of our transports. I managed to reduce the losses though by bribing lots of partisans.

    * A certain civ has been significantly weakened
    The Indian civ has been weakened so much that it no longer exists. I also captured two Roman cities.

    * A ship magnet has been established
    A coastal fortress plus riflemen in Lunde. A few enemy ships now have died there. It would be nice to have alpine troops there as well but I'm currently building a cannon to kill any enemies that might land in the forest. City walls might be nice to have there as well.

    * Improved transportation network on land and a degraded one at sea
    Our enemies sank several of our transports. However, we now have railroad almost everywhere.
     
  10. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,818
    Location:
    Ontario
    I've been looking at the game, and I think that with a full scale mobilization we can win this game very quickly (circa 1770, if not sooner). By full scale mobilization I mean selling off improvements and all but halting domestic improvement in order to rush cavalry, spies and transports in the largest quantities we can. It would involve sending almost all our engineers to the combat zone to build railroads between cities. It would involve massing such large hordes of vet cavalry and spies (to sabotage walls) that we could overrun any island in a very short time.
     
  11. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Deity Civ2 GOTM Staff Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    I can't find the posts where we discussed it but I had in mind we tried a landing game????

    Don't mind if we change it, but we all have to agree on it.....

    I will play next. Hope I can start in a couple of days but have not much time this week to play...
     
  12. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,818
    Location:
    Ontario
    If you want to play a landing game, I don't mind, but all the Deity-plus succession games I remember reading were conquest games. I also think we might be able to finish this game earlier than any of the deity+2/deity+3 games played here (not positive on all the diety+3; there were several) and I would be interested in trying.
     
  13. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    I don't think we ever decided on a landing game and it would be rather tedious anyway - just an extension of a conquest game because we would probably start by capturing all enemy cities except for one. The extra time a landing game would take might be better spent on another and different succession game - we got lucky in this one by having all of the AI civs fairly close to us. The northern hemisphere seems to be uninhabited.

    Prof. Garfield's idea of trying to destroy everyone very quickly is interesting but if we follow that strategy and sell off improvements to fund a full scale war I recommend keeping barracks in the cities that have them. Having veteran units makes a big difference. One possible problem I see with this strategy is partisans. They were a major problem when I was destroying the Indians. And if we follow this strategy we should probably switch to communism (or fundamentalism if that form of government is allowed - I don't think it is).

    BTW has anyone seen what happened in 1510 AD happen in other games? Apparently the Indians disbanded all of their musketeers after discovering conscription leaving all of their cities poorly defended or not defended at all.
     
  14. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    3,818
    Location:
    Ontario
    One of the reasons I recommended full scale war is because we have Sun Tzu's at the moment, so veteran units are not a problem to get (otherwise I would not have suggested the idea).

    I don't think partisans would be a large problem for a few reasons. No one has guerrilla warfare, and the Spanish don't even have communism. Moreover, neither civ has sanitation, so we won't be taking cities larger than size 12; there shouldn't be too many partisans under these circumstances. Also, we should have enough "spare" troops to attack partisans if need be (rather than fighting with a limited and minimal force, as was done in India).

    Communism might be a good idea: no senate and vet spies would help a lot. If earlier succession games disallowed fundamentalism, then I think we should try to achieve the conquest without it.

    I don't recall having seen a mass disbandment of AI units before.
     
  15. simpeter

    simpeter Lurker

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    Italy
    "Carthage must be destroyed."

    - Cato the Elder
     
  16. jonel1111

    jonel1111 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2001
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Houston, TX, USA
    Wha...happened? When are you going to finish this? I keep checking and there's never any progress.
    jonel1111
     
  17. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Deity Civ2 GOTM Staff Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    I'm playing right now, but alsp try to finish GOTM 106 and have not the time to play extra turns for the succession game. Be patient we're going to finish this one....
     
  18. ScottieX

    ScottieX Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    NZ
    Any update on the status of the great empire?
    Almost 2 months since we heard word of its glory.

    not complaining - just politely inquiring :)
     
  19. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Deity Civ2 GOTM Staff Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    I had not the time to play more turns yet. I had to finish some GOTM games and am right now very busy with work. So not much playing time at the moment. This week will be an extreme week with hardly a change to play and extra hours working for my boss every evening.... I hope I can finish my turns in two weeks....
     
  20. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Deity Civ2 GOTM Staff Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,699
    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    My excuses for taking so long playing my turns but finally I've played them....

    Here is my log:

    preturn 1540 AD copper to Kolhapur (220g) + silver (205g)
    Spanish develop Philosophy
    Carth's develop tactics / lost 1 transport ( no units)
    turn 1 1550 AD Electronics->Genetic Engineering / >46M / dye to Leptis Magna (316g) + silk (396g) + copper to Girba (416g) + spice (174g) + dye (146g+144g+148g) / captured Kolhapur (97g) / captured Washington (we need more attacking units so destroying the Americans will give us more space) - 386g - Americans destroyed
    turn 2 1560 AD Genetic Engineering->Refining / >47M / captured Leptis Magna / Revolting because I want to change to Fundy
    turn 3 1570 AD lost some cavalry units and 1 transport after a fight with the Carth's
    gems to Girba (402g) / captured Girba (126g)
    turn 4 1580 AD Spanish develop trade
    Carth's sneak attack again lost 2 cavalry
    captured Carthage (capitol moved to Gades - 151g)
    turn 5 1590 AD Carth's manage to destroy two more cavalry
    turn 6 1600 AD dye to Gades (420g) / captured Selinus (Amphibious Warfare) / captured Gades (capitol moves to Caralis) + Utica
    turn 7 1610 Ad Spanish develop Banking
    Sneak attack by Carth's / 3 units lost
    captured Caralis
    turn 8 ...... nothing happens and I did not play

    At the moment of turn 8 the Carth's have no longer a capitol and I removed them from their main island. They still have some islands with cities so the next should setup a next attack reaching those. I've changed our civ into fundy government for the last pushover........think we should no longer stay in demo when we go for conquest.
    If I understand fundy correctly we get extra money for hapiness so get in those coins for a big army...

    I still haven't found the last Roman city. Perhaps the next one could try getting their map. I also started Hoover Dam and Cure for Cancer.

    Good luck for the next....(Charlie)
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page