Firaxis, please make a NOTRE DAME wonder for CIV 6

[UWHabs]

Major French businesses and industrial firms have as of a few hours ago, already pledged over 450 million Euros to the restoration, and Macron says they will get it restored within five years.

L'Audace, L'Audace, Toujours L'Audace!

Which is kind of crazy, since while watching the coverage yesterday everyone was talking about how expensive the renovations were, at 6m Euro.

 

[DWilson]

I guess it's an argument that Firaxis would be trying to profit off of the nostalgia and attention yielded by the accident, and thus the accident itself.

Which is silly.

 

[kaspergm]

Making it a no-profit DLC either for free or with a low cost with all money going to restoration of the church (and/or some other charity) would be fine. I can't see how that would in any way be controversial. But of course, it would not be the first time the whole violation culture of these days have surprised me.

 

[Tech Osen]

Which is kind of crazy, since while watching the coverage yesterday everyone was talking about how expensive the renovations were, at 6m Euro.

A slow deterioration over decades doesn't have the impact as a sudden, unexpected disaster. From what I understand there are a lot of monumental buildings in Italy and Greece that are in dire need of restoration but lack the funding. Same probably goes for the majority of monuments worldwide.

Edit: of course all these buildings were never made with the idea they had to last centuries and accommodate hundred thousands to millions visitors a year.

 

[Wingednosering]

Why on Earth would it be controversial or distasteful to include one of the premier wonders of Europe (which frankly should have been in the base game) in an expansion? I understand why selling it, by itself, in a DLC could appear distasteful (if for no other reason than no world wonder is worth selling by itself as DLC), but I can't see any reason they couldn't or shouldn't include it in an expansion...

If it was part of a larger expansion, I wouldn't personally care, but some people could see it as opportunistic or playing off the tragedy to make people more willing to pay.

Will many people think that? No. But if I'm an exec in a boardroom on a AAA title like civ, I'm telling them to be as inoffensive as possible and steer wide of anything that could backfire. That's just how the business is these days with the current culture of outrage.

So choose 1 of the other dozens of good wonder options and steer clear might be the attitude.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

If it was part of a larger expansion, I wouldn't personally care, but some people could see it as opportunistic or playing off the tragedy to make people more willing to pay.

Will many people think that? No. But if I'm an exec in a boardroom on a AAA title like civ, I'm telling them to be as inoffensive as possible and steer wide of anything that could backfire. That's just how the business is these days with the current culture of outrage.

So choose 1 of the other dozens of good wonder options and steer clear might be the attitude.

I suspect you are right. Unless 100% of a hypothetical Notre Dame DLC's profit went to charity, they could be accused of profiting from tragedy. It would be better to include it in an expansion where it's only 1 of many wonders and not attempt to lean too much on it for marketing.

 

[Za01phod]

Don’t get me wrong, I hate what happend to ND, but a far bigger tragedy was the destruction of Palmyra. And barely anyone knows about this. So I would opt for such a wonder. Especially since it’s unlikely that anyone will donate a cent to have the damage done there fixed.

 

[CPWimmer]

Yeah, I think the best options for including ND are:

1. Stand alone Charity DLC
2. Free to all DLC/Patch (really a 1a option)
3. One of a number of Wonders in XP3

But as many have said (or at least felt) Notre Dame should have been in Civ 6 already. It is arguably the second most famous/important religious building of the Christian faith (behind the Vatican). It is an internationally recognized icon with historic and cultural significance, and an amazing architectural wonder in it's own right.

I won't argue about other worthy Wonders, as I realize that topic is of incredibly broad scope. However I think people would be hard pressed to say that Notre Dame doesn't deserve to be a World Wonder in the game (even regardless of current events).

 

[CPWimmer]

Don’t get me wrong, I hate what happend to ND, but a far bigger tragedy was the destruction of Palmyra. And barely anyone knows about this. So I would opt for such a wonder. Especially since it’s unlikely that anyone will donate a cent to have the damage done there fixed.

The problem with Palmyra (in the real world) is four fold.
First, it was already a ruin/archaeological site prior to ISIS's actions in 2015, so "reconstruction" is difficult.
Second, it's in a war-torn part of the world - again limiting options.
Third (somewhat, but not entirely related to number 2), it is located in a economically shattered country - the amount of funds available for any reconstruction is just not there.
And fourth, to your point, it's just not as famous. I know about it, you know about it, and probably many of the rest of us Fanatics know about it, but if it's not an archaeological site in Western Europe, Egypt, India or China (with plenty of notable exceptions, of course) it is not something most of the world knows or cares about on an international level.

 

[Tech Osen]

Don’t get me wrong, I hate what happend to ND, but a far bigger tragedy was the destruction of Palmyra. And barely anyone knows about this. So I would opt for such a wonder. Especially since it’s unlikely that anyone will donate a cent to have the damage done there fixed.

I think plenty people know. It's on the Unesco World Heritage Site list after all. But it's also a recovering war zone, the future will tell how much can and will be done there.

 

[Kwami]

But that's all kind of the point, though. Why should we have a charity DLC to support a nation that can already afford to rebuild ND, but not do the same for wonders and nations that are more in need? Anyway, Firaxis is a business. While I'm sure that they contribute to charitable causes, I don't think that they want to themselves become a charity that supports "wonders" around the world.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Why on Earth would it be controversial or distasteful to include one of the premier wonders of Europe (which frankly should have been in the base game) in an expansion? I understand why selling it, by itself, in a DLC could appear distasteful (if for no other reason than no world wonder is worth selling by itself as DLC), but I can't see any reason they couldn't or shouldn't include it in an expansion...

Regardless of opinions about religion, the Gothic Cathedrals were and are architectural wonders. Not to have any in a game which does include wonders like a bunch of rocks stood on end (Stonehenge) or a pile of packed dirt sprawled across the landscape (China's "long wall") is ridiculous. And while there are earlier ones and bigger ones, the Notre Dame of Paris is far and away the best known, most recognized, and with the possible exception of St. Peter's in Rome, the most visited of the Gothic Cathedrals. Should have been included in Vanilla, should not be any serious objection to including it now.

A slow deterioration over decades doesn't have the impact as a sudden, unexpected disaster. From what I understand there are a lot of monumental buildings in Italy and Greece that are in dire need of restoration but lack the funding. Same probably goes for the majority of monuments worldwide.

Edit: of course all these buildings were never made with the idea they had to last centuries and accommodate hundred thousands to millions visitors a year.

Years ago, I got to visit Athens and walked around the Parthenon and other structures on top of the Acropolis. Right after that, the entire Acropolis was closed to visitors because of the increasing structural unsoundness of the structures, so had I been a little later, I never would have had a chance to see raw Parthenon Up Close and Personal. Similar 'slow motion collapse' potentially effects anything manmade when exposed to time, weather, and natural events (Greece is, after all. in an earthquake-prone area)

And by the way, the architectural historians are right: there is not a single straight line in the Parthenon: everything is slightly curved to counteract the visual effect of the long stone edges, so that all the lines look straight, but actually aren't.

 

[Zaarin]

Regardless of opinions about religion, the Gothic Cathedrals were and are architectural wonders. Not to have any in a game which does include wonders like a bunch of rocks stood on end (Stonehenge) or a pile of packed dirt sprawled across the landscape (China's "long wall") is ridiculous. And while there are earlier ones and bigger ones, the Notre Dame of Paris is far and away the best known, most recognized, and with the possible exception of St. Peter's in Rome, the most visited of the Gothic Cathedrals. Should have been included in Vanilla, should not be any serious objection to including it now.

I did a paper in college about the metaphysics and theology that underlay Gothic architecture, which I feel adds that much more to their beauty, even as a non-Catholic. I can't think of any physical manifestation of an idea that's quite as resplendent as the Gothic cathedral.

And by the way, the architectural historians are right: there is not a single straight line in the Parthenon: everything is slightly curved to counteract the visual effect of the long stone edges, so that all the lines look straight, but actually aren't.

I've always found that both mind-boggling and fascinating. I kind of suspect it would give me a headache in person...

 

[CPWimmer]

But that's all kind of the point, though. Why should we have a charity DLC to support a nation that can already afford to rebuild ND, but not do the same for wonders and nations that are more in need? Anyway, Firaxis is a business. While I'm sure that they contribute to charitable causes, I don't think that they want to themselves become a charity that supports "wonders" around the world.

I do agree, at this point ND probably doesn't need our drop in the bucket. Not to discourage anyone from donating to whatever causes you believe in, and absolutely not to discourage Firaxis of getting ND into the game one way or another!

On the other hand, not to get too far afield, but who exactly would Firaxis send charitable contributions for Palmyra to? I doubt that sending money to the Syrian government (or a sub-entity of it) is high on any US corporations charitable to-do list, and would probably trigger a lot of scrutiny from the Feds. The good news is, it does look like some renovations have been going on for Palmyra, and the site is potentially scheduled to reopen later this year (at least according to one report).

 

[Ziad]

I love this idea.

 

[WillowBrook]

How accurate are the construction depictions of the wonders in Civ VI? It would be really awesome if, as it's being built in the game, they could accurately show Notre Dame's appearance up until just before the fire, and then after it's restored, add the fire and restoration. Or add a random event where it (and certain other appropriate wonders) could be damaged and trigger an aid emergency.

 

[King of Prussia]

I will also add that i think a DLC with the profits going to charity is a good idea. a FLC would also be nice, but unlikely.

of course if it is a paid DLC, steam will take their cut, unless they wave it for this(steam takes a fairly large % of the money you pay)

 

[Zaarin]

How accurate are the construction depictions of the wonders in Civ VI? It would be really awesome if, as it's being built in the game, they could accurately show Notre Dame's appearance up until just before the fire, and then after it's restored, add the fire and restoration. Or add a random event where it (and certain other appropriate wonders) could be damaged and trigger an aid emergency.

Personally I'd prefer the original appearance and I'd prefer that wonders be left indestructible. Many wonders in the game have been destroyed or damaged IRL, but I think it would be contrary to the theme of Civ's wonders if that could happen in-game.

 

[God of Kings]

It is great that we are proposing a charitable donation for Notre Dame with a DLC as a reward, but it would also be great for such similar initiatives for other wonders at risk, both human-made and natural.

There are quite a number of natural wonders at risk as well.

 

[Gloompy]

I fear too much money will be given to France as part of the rebuilding effort and they may divert their funds into the Military Research and Development team for warmongering. I say we should be on the safe side.