First Impressions

[fat_tonle]

Religion is underpowered as hell. After 3-4 games, it is pretty much a luck of the draw. Get the right terrain early, match the bonus, then it MIGHT help you pull away some what. The founder beliefs are God awful. There is no point getting a second prophet unless you get him super early and have super flexibility. Enough of that rant. Will play another game later tonight and see if I am still right.

Espionage is effective, just way too limited. Naval changes are good. That is all... for now.

 

[chazzycat]

Observations so far:

"little" things I like:
1) the "find on map" button for city states
2) the "pay to improve a resource" option for city states
3) the ability to disable combat animations once air forces get ridiculous

bigger things I like:
4) fixing legalism, and the tradition tree in general
5) religion - I think they did a great job.
6) making marginal terrain like tundra & desert more viable options
7) totally killing all of my old strategies so i have to come up with new ones

things i don't like:
1) swtiching collective rule. I feel this was an over-nerf...tradition seems to have caught up with liberty & passed it in one fell swoop.
2) truffles. stupid luxury, and bad tile output.

 

[StukaScream]

Didn't see one of these yet. So far I think this expansion is fantastic. Started a large map with 12 civs and having an interesting contest with Ethiopia over religion. He beat me founding one by a turn and has a slight edge getting it spread. I'm the Celts.

Haha, im playing the celts now too, and also the Ethiopians did the same thing, dominating religion, and I fight them all the time in wars because they conquer so much. So I got the same situation as you

 

[Buccaneer]

Religion is underpowered as hell. After 3-4 games, it is pretty much a luck of the draw. Get the right terrain early, match the bonus, then it MIGHT help you pull away some what. The founder beliefs are God awful. There is no point getting a second prophet unless you get him super early and have super flexibility. Enough of that rant.

You make it sound like that's all a bad thing. I think it's just the right balance - it can help you a little but not game-changing. I wanted religion simply as a flavor and that's what we got, so I'm a happy camper.

 

[PhilBowles]

2) truffles. stupid luxury, and bad tile output.

They're there because the Civ IV fans wanted all the old Civ IV resources reinstated, and that includes one with a pig graphic. They chose to make the new resources luxuries rather than bonus resources because the game already has all the necessary bonus resources and there's not really room for any more on terrain that you'd find pigs in. So no, truffles don't make much sense as a luxury compared with many that aren't in the game, but if you're essentially forced to make a non-bonus resource that looks like a pig, there aren't a lot of other options.

 

[PhilBowles]

You make it sound like that's all a bad thing. I think it's just the right balance - it can help you a little but not game-changing. I wanted religion simply as a flavor and that's what we got, so I'm a happy camper.

Agreed, from all the rules associated with it and my early G&K experience, I expected religion to be too dominating, especially as the number you can have is limited - that's exactly what made it poorly-balanced in Civ IV, and it looked as though Civ V would just exacerbate it. But so far it does seem fairly minor - mostly what you can do with religion is earn more faith with moderate effects, which is very well-balanced.

 

[chazzycat]

They're there because the Civ IV fans wanted all the old Civ IV resources reinstated, and that includes one with a pig graphic. They chose to make the new resources luxuries rather than bonus resources because the game already has all the necessary bonus resources and there's not really room for any more on terrain that you'd find pigs in. So no, truffles don't make much sense as a luxury compared with many that aren't in the game, but if you're essentially forced to make a non-bonus resource that looks like a pig, there aren't a lot of other options.

if that's true, it's crazy...

 

[Buccaneer]

if that's true, it's crazy...

Yeah, Civ4 fans (which I easily had been one) need to just keep playing their game and not whine about what is or what is not included in Civ5.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Wow, that 36%/68% Enhacner belief is seriously powerful, I've never seen a religion spread to FORTY-something cities in a Large map.. and gues swhat, IT WAS MINE RELIGION.. Muahaha!

 

[ShoGuL]

Wanted to share; I just had a huge "wow" moment.

Playing as the Mayans, I rushed the Chichen Itza wonder with a Great Engineer(it's actually fairly decent now.. +4 global happiness helped a lot). After I built it, I realized.. wait a minute.. I actually rushed the Chichen Itza in.. Chichen Itza. Mind blown ^^

 

[blackcatatonic]

Ha, that's exactly what I did in my current game!

Even more amazingly, I managed to build the Statue of Liberty in turn 319... from scratch. Ye gods.

 

[StrideColossus]

...but if you're essentially forced to make a non-bonus resource that looks like a pig, there aren't a lot of other options.

Bacon!

 

[fat_tonle]

You make it sound like that's all a bad thing. I think it's just the right balance - it can help you a little but not game-changing. I wanted religion simply as a flavor and that's what we got, so I'm a happy camper.

Then don't put it in the game if it is not a game changer. Same with Espionage. Don't get me wrong... I'll still take it. More work is needed though. Hoping we get a final expansion.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Hemispheres. Deity Information Start. Switch off all victory conditions, and enjoy world building.

Hemispheres, huh? I actually liked it in civ4, but description kinda makes me... ichy.
"2 fairly similar continents suitable for duels" or something like that. I don't want them to be like a mirror reflection...

Then don't put it in the game if it is not a game changer.

That's an odd approach towards game features...

 

[smallfish]

Hemispheres, huh? I actually liked it in civ4, but description kinda makes me... ichy.
"2 fairly similar continents suitable for duels" or something like that. I don't want them to be like a mirror reflection...

Nah, you can have a continent full of jungles, and the other one something boxy-snaky like with deserts. Its like East vs West, except expanded into a full Continents map instead of a game board.

Quite fun. Do give it a try.

 

[PhilBowles]

Then don't put it in the game if it is not a game changer. Same with Espionage. Don't get me wrong... I'll still take it. More work is needed though. Hoping we get a final expansion.

Sure. And Markets aren't a game-changer either so let's drop them too. It's a strategy game - the idea is to use multiple tools together to achieve your objective.

 

[Matjillam]

When will they make the "set up game" so it presets with the last options you made?

I grow a little tired of changing 8-10 settings each time I restart a game to get a fun starting location.


Other than that, this expansion is GREAT! For the first time I'm playing CiV BEYOND medieval ages because it's just a lot of fun. In vanilla I never played beyond medieval because I found the game to become horrific at that point. It was simply unplayable for me...

It took 2 years for CiV to become fun for me but at least I gave a Civ game to play again

 

[ghost88]

They're there because the Civ IV fans wanted all the old Civ IV resources reinstated, and that includes one with a pig graphic. They chose to make the new resources luxuries rather than bonus resources because the game already has all the necessary bonus resources and there's not really room for any more on terrain that you'd find pigs in. So no, truffles don't make much sense as a luxury compared with many that aren't in the game, but if you're essentially forced to make a non-bonus resource that looks like a pig, there aren't a lot of other options.

Mountain Oysters, they be a luxury in the Appalachians.

 

[joutlan]

I must admit after a few tries I feel that religion is quite *meh*.

It requires significant early game investments, but unless you play a religion oriented CIV, the benefits become unimportant quite quickly.
It is really nice that you can customize your benefits, but at least for my playstile "ignore and play as usual" seems to work out much better...

I bought 3 great scientists with Faith late in game, so it can pay off....for those that haven't done it, each scientist is increasingly expensive in faith points, so it takes an effort.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Loving it Truly the best changes are those underneath...

See anything out of ordinary in the picture? (tip: it's under diplomacy overview)

Spoiler :

The biggest difference in diplo IMO is that I can now actually play the AI diplo game with them and beat them at it. Before it was such a random mess for me I could never catch up with their odd behavior whatever I tried. Now however... Look at the pic. 9civs besides me and everyone loves me. 7 out of 9 DoFs! Soon to be all 9/9.

Here's a little story;
Playing as Theodora, dominating religion... Chillin, friends with everyone on our continent, except for Spain (neutral, always has been a bit cold, that one). Age of exploration, actively exploring the seas, finding new civs and befriending them.
Growing a bit tired of killing Mongolian spies (also a friend, might be the very best even) in the capital. First forgave a couple of times like we do with all the rest voyeurs in the capital. Then asked to stop... Ok says he (yeah right). He did it again of course.
Decided to make an example out of him. Next time denounced him... while being "Friends", officially "Backstabbing" him and effectively getting "You denounced a civ you had DoF with" negative modifier with everyone. Guess what? No one gives a single. Next turn everyone denounces Genghis.
During next few turns many come to Theodora with offers of war on Genghis. But Theodora is capricious and refuses. During this time Special Agent Nykoforros actively travels across the continent and beyond gathering intrigue that surely gets the ears of our patrons. Spain, Arabia, Iroquois declares war on Genghis, Austrian troops on the way...
Theodora changes her mind, goes to one of the patrons (Attila) and says "Ok, let's kick ass", "and ass shall be kicked" says Attila. We join on the war.
We roll over Mongols taking 3 cities including the capital. Spared Genghis with one desert city. Asked the rest to leave him alone. Became friends with Spain (finally) during this conflict, everyone loves Theodora like never before (no one cares the slightest about us occasionally being friends with someones enemy) ... In a couple of turns Genghis shows up asking for embassy, friendly, with only "you have the original capital" and "you asked to stop spying on you" modifiers... Still loving Theodora...


I am quite pleased with G&K I must say.