First Impressions

[The_J]

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Oh, and maybe this thread can be merged with the First Impressions thread, I think it's only fitting You will find there that you weren't the first one to be pleasantly surprised.

Moderator Action: -> Threads merged.

 

[Horizons]

I really love the 'small' touches like the chance to renew deals such as open borders BEFORE they are cancelled thus throwing all your soldiers out of foreign soil ... and the AI offering to renew trades on luxuries etc. Actually it makes me mad thinking that these 'small touches' were never implemented in vanilla civ, looking at them they seem so basic ... but add a LOT to the gameplay!

 

[blackcatatonic]

You can open a dialog with your most likely suspects and go to Discuss then choose "Stop spying on me." I caught Bismarck red handed in one game (Carthage, King, Standard, Large Islands) and told him to stop spying on me. He agreed. Several turns later (I suspect that the AI has an as yet undocumented advantage in either its number of spies or the frequency with which it gets them) I again caught Bismarck. This time I DoWd. My goal was not to roll up Bismarck, but to slap him good and hard so I pillaged everything I could with Lancers and retreated them when necessary to a strong position of melee supported by siege. Mixed Frigates and Privateers either sank or captured every one of his ships. He eventually offered peace on modestly favorable terms and I took it.

That's a good story, but as I have no idea who's doing the spying, I don't really know who to ask. Plus I'm reluctant to barge in there and demand that people stop spying on me when it incurs a massive diplomatic penalty. I'd much rather have the satisfaction of catching them at it so I can forgive them and have a positive modifier (especially if it's Pachacuti).

 

[Vandal Thorne]

I really love the 'small' touches like the chance to renew deals such as open borders BEFORE they are cancelled thus throwing all your soldiers out of foreign soil ... and the AI offering to renew trades on luxuries etc. Actually it makes me mad thinking that these 'small touches' were never implemented in vanilla civ, looking at them they seem so basic ... but add a LOT to the gameplay!

It would be nice if they added these to multiplayer too.

 

[Magil]

Although I shared the tech lead with India throughout the rest of the game I did not have any techs stolen after the fracas with Bismarck. It will take a few more games to determine whether or not that was mere coincidence.

It could obviously also be coincidence, but when I caught a spy, I forgave Monty the first time but asked him to stop spying, and then when it happened again I denounced him, and after that it seemed like I had less incidents from any nations after that. It didn't stop but it did seem to slow down.

It's most likely coincidence but it makes for a nice story.

That's a good story, but as I have no idea who's doing the spying, I don't really know who to ask. Plus I'm reluctant to barge in there and demand that people stop spying on me when it incurs a massive diplomatic penalty. I'd much rather have the satisfaction of catching them at it so I can forgive them and have a positive modifier (especially if it's Pachacuti).

I find that if you have a "high science" city, it's VERY hard to completely stop enemy spies. Best bet is to take your top-ranked spy and station it in your capital full-time. That should help some.

 

[smallfish]

Monty... Monty? MONTY???

Dude, just dow him off the bat. The Aztecs are never to be trusted. Ever.

 

[binhthuy71]

It could obviously also be coincidence, but when I caught a spy, I forgave Monty the first time but asked him to stop spying, and then when it happened again I denounced him, and after that it seemed like I had less incidents from any nations after that. It didn't stop but it did seem to slow down.

It's most likely coincidence but it makes for a nice story.



I find that if you have a "high science" city, it's VERY hard to completely stop enemy spies. Best bet is to take your top-ranked spy and station it in your capital full-time. That should help some.

I'm testing whether or not DoWing on a spy-n-lie civ deters others in my next three games. It seems too good to be true so it probably is.

There are some odd things about AI espionage; in an earlier game the AI's all sent their spies to work conducting coups and counter-coups in the same handful of CS. It sure was fun to watch.

 

[vranasm]

As a player who heavily disliked Civ V after 200 hours of playing it, I gave yesterday a run for Gods and Kings demo to see how things changed to the better...so couple of my observations

1) Good diplomatic AI still nonexistant. I was in a map with Carthage, Willem and maybe couple more (I found later Genghis Khan and I really didn't scout much)

At first I made DoF with Carthage thinking she really looks good and actually she was the one going to me.
We even didn't touch borders and my 3rd city was like 9 tiles away from her borders and couple of barbs encampements

Then she declares war on Willem (who was indeed closer then me) and NEXT TURN SHE DENOUNCES ME! Reason? "you settle too aggresively"... yeah right...I settled closest city to you like 20 turns ago and in the mean time she threw city next to my capital
couple of turns later she just dow's me since she wants my land...

hmm why make diplomacy in the game then? If anything I should be the insulted one and be aggressive towards her

still getting like 5 maluses for anything and nonsense and almost no positive modifiers at all

2) UI is still horrible.
Mouseover tooltips are still totally useless (you can't even see the HP of your unit if you mouseover YOUR unit), they would be better with not providing anything
After you attack with your units you regularly stuck with "unit needs orders" and have to press W to get rid of it.

The game is still too slow switching between units after attacks even if quick combat, quick movement

Minimap still behaves bad.
Playing in windowed mode is very very bad, since you can't intuitively scroll with the map and the work with minimap is just horrible.

3) Religion looked nice
like really really nice...

4)
the gameplay is slow...just everything feels so slow, most probably due to sloppy UI and the amount of MM you have to do.
The units moving at end of turn and bringing your attention back to them in interturn is very bad still too... like I have to press end turn for 6 times until I finally get to ending the turn? yeah I know...I queued ineffectively unit movements and they need my attention at 1/2... for gods sake it's so annoying


turned off in disgust at T103.
well still it was better then watching the second half of Portugal x Spain, but surely not better then Civ IV, LoL or Diablo or for gods sake watching someone else playing CIV, LoL, diablo....

No money from me dear Firaxis (if you even read this thread)

 

[Knut_Are_M]

First off religion seems to be for etiopia+celts+maya+lucky natural wonder+ stonehenge+some panteons with correct land. Shrines and temples give so little faith it is not even funny.
Missonaries cost alot so much that i recommend just saveing up to your second Great profet and just spread it with him.
Religion strongly favors ics. Pressure is mostly dependant upon nr of cities that follow your religion, and not number of followers. Piety is for Egypt so they can get cheap temples, and normally only take that 1 policy.

crossbowmen/longbowmen/chu ku nus/Camel archers etc are so powerful that you should only spam them +1 fast melee unit. Gatling guns and artillery are also pretty dominant in the industrial era.

Rationalism got a major buff in online play. now raw tech is what you need to tech. also because of how spies work it is really good to go wide.

All things considerd there is a better balance betwean the civs, but ranged units have too much defence so you mostly spam them and forget about finesse.

 

[bryanw1995]

Some interesting comments about religion. I like the fact that religion gets better as you build more cities, so it can somewhat serve as a counter to the SP penalty from additional cities. Taking liberty can really make this fun, as you can have excellent faith and still do pretty well with culture/SP's.

Every game I've played with the expansion has been religion-focused, even with Carthage. Carthage had tons of sea resources (of course) but no religious natural wonders on the continent, so I built Stonehenge for the jump-start. Generally speaking I would say that Stonehenge is a must for a good religion if you aren't one of the religion-focused new civs like ethiopia, maya, celtics, or byzantines. Getting the first or 2nd religion is critical because you want the best choice of founder/follower beliefs. Later religions can be ok (I still got pagodas even with the 5th religion founded while playing as Carthage), but using faith to purchase military units is so OP'd that it almost doesn't seem fair, and something like Cathedrals can also be wonderful to help maximize your SP/culture.

 

[santoo]

is monti always batshit-insane?

in my current standard/earth/immortal game, the germans shared intruige with me of an imminent sneak attack by monty on me, so I DOW'd preemptively and got several AIs to help.
~12 turns later, I take one of his cities; he refuses peace.
~10 turns later, I take another city; still no peace.
...
~50 turns later, I have taken 5 cities, inflicted heavy damage - he's no longer a real threat in any battlefield - and i have even managed to get a techlead on him.
FINALLY Monty is willing to settle for peace. His terms: all my gold, all my ressources, the 5 cities I've conquered, as well as 8 of my "original" cities.

btw: getting AIs to DOW on each other seems much too easy/cheap:
- most often the equivalent of 1 or 2 luxuries seem to suffice.
- you don't have to join in the war
- these deals seem to remain secret? (no diplo-modifiers like "you made X DOW on us")

might have to try in another game if inciting wars is enough to keep the AIs busy, while I watch & build in peace

 

[Andulias]

is monti always batshit-insane?

in my current standard/earth/immortal game, the germans shared intruige with me of an imminent sneak attack by monty on me, so I DOW'd preemptively and got several AIs to help.
~12 turns later, I take one of his cities; he refuses peace.
~10 turns later, I take another city; still no peace.
...
~50 turns later, I have taken 5 cities, inflicted heavy damage - he's no longer a real threat in any battlefield - and i have even managed to get a techlead on him.
FINALLY Monty is willing to settle for peace. His terms: all my gold, all my ressources, the 5 cities I've conquered, as well as 8 of my "original" cities.

btw: getting AIs to DOW on each other seems much too easy/cheap:
- most often the equivalent of 1 or 2 luxuries seem to suffice.
- you don't have to join in the war
- these deals seem to remain secret? (no diplo-modifiers like "you made X DOW on us")

might have to try in another game if inciting wars is enough to keep the AIs busy, while I watch & build in peace

Try this - bribe a civ into attacking another civ, wait a turn or two, and then contact them and let them bribe you.

Oh, Firaxis...

 

[smallfish]

is monti always batshit-insane?

in my current standard/earth/immortal game, the germans shared intruige with me of an imminent sneak attack by monty on me, so I DOW'd preemptively and got several AIs to help...

Immortal

That's the problem right there. Unless you are casually wiping off their units every other turn StealthBombers, they won't settle for anything less than your utter capitulation on that difficulty.

You have to seriously make them pay - and hard - before you get the good peace deals.

 

[Mustakrakish]

On what settings do you guys play? I'm kinda stuck on standard speed, small size, continents, random world age-temperature-rainfall, medium sea-level... with 10civs on 10cs. Kinda want to try something else, something interesting, but that setting proved to be solid good, I don't want to diverge. I'm obviously interested in all around maps that don't exclude one play-style or another. Also hate the extra lag, so not really playing on bigger maps.

What interesting settings can you advise?

 

[smallfish]

Hemispheres. Deity Information Start. Switch off all victory conditions, and enjoy world building.

 

[binhthuy71]

is monti always batshit-insane?...

Not always, just often. Alex is the same way.

Me, I've taken all of his cities save for the size 3 hopeless one that's now his capitol. His entire military consists of one arthritic archer garrisoned in same. I've bribed away all of his CS allies. Let's see if he takes peace now.

Alex/Monty, "Tis but a flesh wound. I want all of your gold, X GPT, these luxury resources, those strategic resources..."

Another soon-to-be-classic ensues when an AI civ attacks or bullies a CS that you've pledged to protect. If you object the response is always "I'm confident that what I did..."
It never seems to matter that your forces are easily capable of erasing them.

 

[santoo]

Try this - bribe a civ into attacking another civ, wait a turn or two, and then contact them and let them bribe you.

excellent idea! I was pleasantly surprised to find I could ask them to pay me for DOWing someone else, but hadn't considered instigating this war myself... is it possible to turn a profit this way?

That's the problem right there.
You have to seriously make them pay - and hard - before you get the good peace deals.

thanks for the info. bummer, never had that happen on emporer; so now my options are a 100+turn grind (monty still has quite a few cities) or giving away everything, even when I'm winning?


and now for something completely different: I think someone already posted about a CS capturing an enemy civ's city. In my current game, a CS captured 3 spanish cities - including their CAPITAL.
Now if only I could afford their help against Monty...

 

[Gratitude]

Hemispheres. Deity Information Start. Switch off all victory conditions, and enjoy world building.

Quick question, if you turn off all victory conditions, does the AI still work for them like they're active?

 

[smallfish]

Quick question, if you turn off all victory conditions, does the AI still work for them like they're active?

nah - sometimes they will build wonders for space victory (Hubble), or they will occasionally send spies to rig elections and watch you/each other, but it all reverts to one victory condition.

Domination. Actually, it really depends too.

Once you've established your presence, you can expect to be treated like a proper sovereign and not a third world bomb-me-whenever-you-like. Yes, even on Deity. And that's when you can build your empire.

 

[Gratitude]

Once you've established your presence, you can expect to be treated like a proper sovereign and not a third world bomb-me-whenever-you-like. Yes, even on Deity. And that's when you can build your empire.

Interesting, I never knew you could do this. For some reason I just assumed the game wouldn't launch without a victory condition. I'm definitely going to try this and see how it all plays out.