First Look: Macedon with Alex the Great

Yeah he nicknamed him Ram Kham Trollface, because of his cheesy smile and the fact that he always forward settled every civ in a game with what Marbozir called a troll city.

I'm pretty sure he was the worst forward settling AI in civ 5. If not he was easily top 3.

I'm not sure which I hate more. Aggressive forward settling like Ram or Alex for claiming land 3 tiles away from my capital ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE PLANET is his territory.

Hmm. Both have CS bonuses and are regarded as frequent trolls. Perhaps there is a deeper connection between them than I thought?
 
For those of you who wanted this:

Alexander - Greece
UA - free wildcard
UU - lackluster spearman
UI - culture district
LUA - DOMINATION GALORE

That would be a terrible design. A focused warmonger civ is better than a warmonger LUA attached to a culture civ.

I think this speaks to larger issue with the game's current take on alternate leaders. Without the ability to mix and match leaders (allowing not just Gorgo or Pericles of Greece but Gorgo of Aztec or Qin Shi Huang of France), adding an alternate leader really doesn't have any advantage gameplay-wise over adding an entirely new civ. With their own symbols, capitals and color schemes, alternate leaders are really just alternate civs that happen to share a subset of their abilities and city lists, so the developers may as well go the extra step and make them "full" civs.
 
I think this speaks to larger issue with the game's current take on alternate leaders. Without the ability to mix and match leaders (allowing not just Gorgo or Pericles of Greece but Gorgo of Aztec or Qin Shi Huang of France), adding an alternate leader really doesn't have any advantage gameplay-wise over adding an entirely new civ. With their own symbols, capitals and color schemes, alternate leaders are really just alternate civs that happen to share a subset of their abilities and city lists, so the developers may as well go the extra step and make them "full" civs.

That was also the case in Civ IV. It's simply a problem with the concept of multiple leaders in a Civ game - but for whatever reason there was clamour to have what amounted in Civ IV to a pointless cosmetic feature (the leader attributes weren't pointless, but having them as 'Leader 2' rather than 'Civ 35' was to most intents and purposes, as uniques weren't as significant a feature of Civ IV as the traits).
 
Oh well.... I've been really against the idea of Macedon being a sole civ ever since I've speculated about the two-pack DLC (together with others here in the forums), but I guess I have to submit and get used to this.

Besides the Holy Roman Empire was in Civ4: BTS and it's appearance in the game is a bit problematic, but I just went along with it. :undecide:

How will this be explained to Greek players? Do you guys think there will be less Greeks playing Civ6 now that Alexander isn't placed in Greece? Or will there be no bother at all, since they label Alex's civ as Macedon and not Macedonia?
Macedon during Phillip & Alexander's time is entirely different to modern Macedonia. In ancient times they were two distinct, though with numerous cultural similarities, peoples. They spoke different languages (though Alex and Phillip both spoke Greek too), had vastly different customs and Macedon had a system of Government that was abhorrent to the Greeks. It wasn't until the Successor Kingdoms that they became considered, more or less, the same thing (but even that was only within the Successor Kingdoms. Within Greece and Macedon they still hated each other and it would be like calling an Irishman/Scotsman English today) and remained far more distinct until the Roman conquests.
It wasn't until Rome cherry picked them apart that Greece and Macedon largely fused. Modern Macedonia is an entirely different ethnic group trying to steal the glory of someone who clearly has no ethnic history from them .

Personally I see ancient Macedon and ancient Greece as both parts of modern Greece. I would hope that Greek players wouldn't take it as a OMG YOU DON'T THINK ALEXANDER IS PART OF GREEK HISTORY!!

I do not think they are distinctive enough that they would warranty separate Civs under normal circumstances. But Phillip and Alexander are responsible for one of the greatest military feats in history, which changed the world more than virtually any other expansion (due to the spread of Hellenic culture) and was vital to how the world panned out afterwards. It directly affected Roman expansion and the existence of the Roman/Byzantine Empire for over 1,000 years.


Like what the hell even is a hypaspist. Its like they were playing as Greece in Age of Mythology and were like 'damn, we already used hoplites, what other unit names are around we can copy'. I'm no historian but I have never heard anything to do with Macedonian swordsmen being fearsome or especially powerful.
They were the cream of Alexander / Phillip's crop and integral to how Alexander got his army working. They were equipped like a Phalanx (rather than the Macedonian Phalanx which was very different) but trained in speed and manoeuvring. Alexander used the Macedonian Phalanxes in much smaller units than the "standard" Greek version we think of, to allow flexibility, but they were still slow moving. The Hypaspists would roam the edges of the line, or fill the gaps between units, moving rapidly to protect allies, or take advantage of gaps in the line. They stopped the Macedonian Phalanxes from being flanked or becoming isolated as the line moved. They were actually an amazing concept and one that only Alexander/Phillip ever used properly, as they were never used like that by his successors.
Without these guys the whole concept of Alexander/Phillip's style of combat wouldn't have been possible.

EDIT: The most famous unit in the Alexander / Successor Kingdom period was the Silver Shields. They were the most sought after unit of soldiers and were regarded as the best of the best. They were hypapists.


Until today I didn't even know modern Macedonia is officially named Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia...
FYROM and Macedon aren't the same thing. They may have some of the same territory, but there is no path from one to the other. It would be like modern Americans treating the Indians as their ancestors.


EDIT: The model used looks like he comes from Gumby or something.
 
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Boo to more Euro/Anglo civs...

civ 6 civs.jpg


jus' sayin'.

at this point i am genuinely not sure whether the dev team are full-on racists or not.
 
Oh well.... I've been really against the idea of Macedon being a sole civ ever since I've speculated about the two-pack DLC (together with others here in the forums), but I guess I have to submit and get used to this.

Besides the Holy Roman Empire was in Civ4: BTS and it's appearance in the game is a bit problematic, but I just went along with it. :undecide:

How will this be explained to Greek players? Do you guys think there will be less Greeks playing Civ6 now that Alexander isn't placed in Greece? Or will there be no bother at all, since they label Alex's civ as Macedon and not Macedonia?
From a purely historic standpoint, Alexander was about as Greek as Hitler was Polish or French. Having Macedon as a civilization is great, and releasing Persia in tandem should make for a nice scenario in the package.
 
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jus' sayin'.

at this point i am genuinely not sure whether the dev team are full-on racists or not.

You are the racist if you judge a Civ's inclusion worthiness based on skin colour as opposed to impact on our world. That is all that should matter.
 
I'm not convinced Macedon should be separate from Greece. I can see the appeal to that (I used to think they should be separate), but the more I've learned, the less it appeals to me. They certainly thought of themselves as Greek and spoke a dialect of Greek even if a very specific subset of Greece (i.e., the Poleis down south) didn't think of them as truly Greek at first.

That being said, I love the contrast between Greece and Persia here as one is Militaristic and Scientific, the other is Militaristic and Cultural.
 
From a purely historic standpoint, Alexander was about as Greek as Hitler was Polish or French.

..I dont have problem that macedon isnt attached to greece as every city-state is a distinct political entity and the notion of nation is absent at this period.. culturally though the ties between macedons and hellenes are more than close.. the hellanodikai of olympic games accept their hellenic ancestry that is testified by herodotus' histories... so i dont get what this "purely historic standpoint" means side to side with hitler's ancestry argument which by the way wasnt polish, nor french, nor german but austrian... it seems that the civilisation franchise introduced a new kind of "historians" worldwide with their own special and "pure" standpoint...
 
I really don't want to go down this road, but I'll call your bluff with Poland and Australia.

Poland easily belong based on that criteria; but should have not been added sooner than the Mongols, Ottomons, and Incans under said criteria. Then, most of us do expect them to hold some big fish back for the first expansion. I would not have added Australia till way further down the track.
 
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@standingwolf ... seriously?

They may be adding them partly due to their upbringing/education and part because of where where their money is seem to originate from but I somehow doubt they are intentionally racist. The above education and money reasons are inherent in every race so I would tread carefully.

I do miss the Mayans and the Incans and Certainly more Indonesians Civs would be nice.

They do have to make money off these Civ's
 
Well, you could go by language group and add India and possibly Persia (unless they speak Aramic) to the "Indo-European" group. But I guess in this case they can safely add Finland or Hungary...
 
I mean ultimately there are in fact more notorious civs from Europe than any other continent. Hard to argue with that fact at least

Also labeling America, Brazil and Australia as "Europe" just because they're originally colonies is kind of pushing it

It's kinda rough on China and India; but given for most of their existence they were each pretty much one political entity (especially when compared to Europe); it's very hard to split off any sub group to be their own Civ. Then Macedon potentially sets a precedent there....
 
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