First Modern War?

[pomsa]

Well, if you are going to call modern warfare what we do now, then the Civil War was not a modern war. However, the Civil War was the first war to really use most of the stuff that would later be used in World War I.

 

[blindside]

The first modern war in my opinion is World War I. In a way I view that early 1900s as a period in which we shift from the Industrial era to a more Modern Era.

 

[pomsa]

But, the basis of the first world war, trench warfare, was developed during the Civil War, largely by Longstreet.

 

[Evie]

Is there such a thing as a first ANYTHING war? Warfare is constantly evolving, and the contrast between the Crimean War and the ACW/French-Prussian war was just as sharp as that between the ACW and WW I, which was in turn just as sharp as the passage from WW I to WW II, and so forth.

Each war will see the introduction of new tactics and innovations, and each war will see some of the tactics and innovations of the last one become obsolete. That's the way wars are.

For example, look at a truly modern war, important things in it : the radar, jet planes, missiles, etc - all elements that were introduced to warfare in WW II. Does that make WW II the first modern war?

But wait! WW II wasn't really a break from anything - Carriers, planes, tanks - all were first developed for military use over the course of WW I, so shouldn't THAT be the first one?

But then trench warfare warfare was developed in the ACW, so WW I wasn't really a break from previous wars, more of a continuation...

(the list goes on and on, I suspect all the way until the first man hit his neighbor with a club to get a better share of the meat).

 

[Hotpoint]

But, the basis of the first world war, trench warfare, was developed during the Civil War, largely by Longstreet.

Actually as I pointed out earlier Trench warfare was a feature of the Crimean War in the decade before the American Civil War.

Entrenchment was a logical result of the accuracy of the new minie ball rifles which were first used on a large scale by the British and French armies against the Russians.

 

[Kafka2]

I'd go go for that 1870 war between France and Germany, which ended up with Napolean III being deposed. It featured a number of "modern" elements, most significantly terror tactics being used on an urban population.

 

[Warman17]

The Civil War did not have ariel warfare, that is why I consider ww1 the first modern war. And I do not count ballons as ariel warfare.

 

[Jason The King]

The Civil War did not have ariel warfare, that is why I consider ww1 the first modern war. And I do not count ballons as ariel warfare.

Hmm, isn't there only 4 ways you can battle? Land, sea, air and space. Balloons are not land, they are not sea, nor are they space.

Balloon warfare is ariel.

 

[pawpaw]

and there has been no space battles--no modern battles yet?

 

[JohnRM]

Sirs, it was not about the technology used in the American Civil War that made it the first modern war, it was the tactics.

 

[Hotpoint]

Sirs, it was not about the technology used in the American Civil War that made it the first modern war, it was the tactics.

Can you give us examples?

 

[Cataphrak]

trench warfare, scorched earth, Trade embargos.... But I still think the boer war was a better example

 

[Verbose]

As already stated, the first "modern war" depends on the definition of "modern". And I completely agree with Oda Nobunaga above.

A case can be made for the siege of Constantinople 1453. The Ottomans brought up huge amounts of artillery and spent two weeks battering down walls that had stood for a millenium. Certainly a first and modern for its day; it meant that the whole doctrine of the "vertical defense" (build it high and don't worry too much about making it thick) that castles in the West had relied on was now obsolete, triggering inventions in fortifications towards "depth".
(But of course, form around 1200 innovations in catapult design spreading from China through the Middle East had already made castles more vulnerable to bombardment.)

Another case can be made for the Dutch infantry tactics developed in the late 16th c where musket fire power and volley firing became the way to win battles. It did away with the massive tercios of the Spanish school that pretty much were used like the Macedonian phalanx.
(Or perhaps the Swiss should be stated as the one who broke the medieval cavalry, if it wasn't the Welsh archers at Agincourt... etc.)

Or perhaps the wars of the French Revolution were the first modern war in the sense that the Revolution instituted general conscription. Suddenly war was the business of every citizen. This is an absolutely necessary prerequisite for the massive armies of WWI.

I think there is often too much emphasis on tactics and hardware in these kinds of dicussions. Politics and social change impact the ways war are waged in some profound ways.

 

[Jason The King]

and there has been no space battles--no modern battles yet?

I didn't say that those were the attributes of modern war. My point was if balloon warfare wasn't aerial, then what is it?

btw, i completely agree with Oda.

 

[blindside]

trench warfare, scorched earth, Trade embargos.... But I still think the boer war was a better example

Scorched earth was used in the War of 1812 and Napoleon did use some sort of embargo against the British. Not too sure about trench warfare though.

 

[pawpaw]

I didn't say that those were the attributes of modern war. My point was if balloon warfare wasn't aerial, then what is it?

my point was we could keep changes the standards for what was modern all day long

 

[Evie]

And we should, because war is constantly changing.

Back in the early twentieth century, trench warfare and scorched earth were "modern", and even conscription still was. Now at the start of the twenty first century these same notions are generally vastly outdated - we talk about a fast war, about avoiding collateral damage, about using precision weapons and even "intelligent weapons". And back at the start of the 19th century, cavalry warfare was still a vital part of what THEY would have called modern war.

 

[sabo]

The civil war was also the first war they used Air Reconnasance, Hot air baloons with up to gather information on the enemy's movements.

 

[Hotpoint]

trench warfare, scorched earth, Trade embargos....

Trade embargo's were not a new idea by any means. I suggest reading Mahan's The Influence of Sea Power Upon History which is a great book and is thought by some to be the Naval equivalent of Clausewitz's On War in terms of its influence on military thinking.

Scorched Earth wasn't a new idea. It might be truer to say it was an old idea bought back to life after a couple of centuries of "civilised" warfare.

And for the third time on this thread Trench warfare was used in the Crimean War before it was used in the American Civil War

The civil war was also the first war they used Air Reconnasance, Hot air baloons with up to gather information on the enemy's movements.

Reconnaisance Balloons were actually being using for artillery spotting as far back as 1794 so that wasn't exactly a new development.

 

[Cataphrak]

Yes... by the french at the battle of Fleurus if I recall