First time FfH2 player -> Need help...

- Very little happened in those 150 turns. Is that normal or is that due to my relative isolation ?
That is due to your isolation. That can happen frequently on the Erebus map. Might I suggest pangea or the new MountainCoast mapscript over in the mods folder?

- Progress was slow (technologies came in very slowly). To be expected ?
That is actually being worked on. Assuming you are using the latest patch, it was recently even made faster. Which techs did you go for?

- Units: For over 100 turns all I could build was warriors and scouts. Did I focus on the wrong techs? What techs are "must-have" for some decent units ?
I wouldn't say the "wrong" techs. It is not bad to rely on warriors for that long. Archery was recently made easier and cheaper to get to break up the "only build warriors!!!!" strategy. You really need to push for a tech to get better units, though, and stick with it for a while. It pays off. Also try and nab a religion, each of which grants units and buildings.

- Buildings: I had very little building options in this time. Again, did I focus on the wrong techs? What techs allow "good/essential" buildings ?
Early on, that would be mysticism. That path lets your cities get culture and science, as well as generate Great Prophets and Great Sages. After that, it depends what you want. Check out the tech tree if you are in doubt. I believe each unit line has one building requirement. Maybe there are less buildings in FFH than Vanilla? It has been too long for me to recall.

- I have the "Standing Stones" in my territory. According to the civiclopedia these stones give 1 extra happy face for all cities close by. How far does this effect reach ?
It has to be within their fat cross.

- I have this blueish mana resource just north of my capital. I want to hook it up, but how do I do that ? Elementalism is still far away. Is that really my only option ?
Elementalism or one of the other 3 tech choices for mana. Spells are really very useful, it is worth the wait. Make sure to read up on the spell spheres in the Civilopedia to choose the right ones. The flavor text makes all of the reading bearable.

- I can comfortably fit 6-7 cities on the piece of land I have available. Is that enough to build a decent empire in FfH2 ?
It depends on your map size, but I would say yes. I tend to prefer small empires, though. Remember that the Elohim really excell when they conquer OTHER cities, too. You can build all of the units and buildings of that civilization (except heroes).

- Barbarians: After killing the lizards and destroying the goblin fort and the barrow I have seen no barbarians whatsoever (50-60 turns and counting). Is this normal, or am I just really lucky here ?
You are lucky. It is most likely because of your isolation. This is both helpful, and a hinderance. You are safe, but your units are not getting precious experience from killing barbarians.

Some general advice for the Elohim is to aim down the Priesthood path. Try to get a religion (Empyrean is nice, or Fellowship of the Leaves if you like trees). The Elohim get a monk unit at Priesthood, which means if you are careful you do not need to go down the melee line until much later. Then you can build some priests to get some spells without needing the arcane tech tree, either.

Experiment, have fun! It is worth the confusion at first. :goodjob:

edit: Half-ninja'ed!
 
I notice I occasionally get completely cut off from other civs on Erebus maps due way mountains are arranged. If you're looking for more interaction early on, Pangaea would probably work better for you.

You should consider how you're going to win the game, though. If you're going for a conquest victory, you'll need to start building some ships. You'll probably want to keep some captured cities instead of wantonly razing everything, since your Tolerant trait lets you build the units and buildings specific to other civilizations within their cities that you capture. Since you're leader is also Philosophical, you create Great People faster, so you might want to consider aiming for an Altar victory by cranking out Great Prophets (it's the equivalent of building a space ship in vanilla Civ4, sort of...).

As for the mana node, you'll need to connect to it with a road, but it won't do anything until you work it with an Adept. Elementalism will let you create either an Air, Fire, Water, or Earth mana node, but researching Alteration, Divination, etc. will let you create other types of nodes. The types of mana you have determines what kinds of spell promotions your adepts will have access to.

Oh, and I thought Standing Stones gave you Earth Mana if you connected it to your cities with a road, but maybe I'm confusing it with something else...
 
That is actually being worked on. Assuming you are using the latest patch, it was recently even made faster. Which techs did you go for?

I am on the latest patch. BtS 3.17, FfH2 patch .40 (IIRC).

I went mostly with the "worker" techs. (exploration, agriculture, education, also mining and bronze working, and a few (2-3) I can't recall right now (among them the one that allows mage courts and adepts, I think))...

Thanks for the suggestions and pointers !!! :)
 
I am on the latest patch. BtS 3.17, FfH2 patch .40 (IIRC).

I went mostly with the "worker" techs. (exploration, agriculture, education, also mining and bronze working, and a few (2-3) I can't recall right now (among them the one that allows mage courts and adepts, I think))...

Thanks for the suggestions and pointers !!! :)

the latest as far as i know is FFH2 patch r if i recall correctly, it's in the bug thread stickied here.
The tech path seems pretty solid, depending on your surroundings obviously. With adepts and sword/axe men you should have a decent early game army, although you don't really need one due to your isolation. Just get some ships up, you should be fine.
Isolation is actually a pretty good start for the elohim, since they're pretty much built towards an altar victory (defensive civ, UB's that add additional prophet GPP's, UU's down the religious path, Einion is philo as well).
To get an altar victory, crank out great prophets and have them build the altar of the luonnatar in your GP farm (as it boosts your priests).
Most of them require techs down the religious line (bottom of the science menu, techs like priesthood and fanatism), the last one requires omniscience in the magic line.
The altar really is a builder victory, and can be a bit dull for a player trying to see what the big great world of erebus is about. As far as i can see you've got 2 options to try out combat: a naval drop into another valley, or a trip down the recon path (techs hunting +), where the more advanced units are able to cross mountains.

Have fun :)
 
I would recommend the Ljosalfar as a beginner civ. The elven building improvements in forests mechanic is easy to grasp (cottaginging grassland forests and keeping the production) and most of the rest is straight forward. Go for the Fellowship of the Leaves religion (beeline to get the holy city) and watch your forests turn into ancient forests giving +1 food as well. Using the Guardians of Nature civic makes your forests/ancient forests provide happiness as well. Overall an easy civ to play for begineers due to the production, food, healthiness (you're not chopping forests), and happiness bonuses.
 
You should take a look at the FFH Manual - it's on the stickied thread of the same name. There's a New Player Guide there - written by some totally awesome person - which covers some of this stuff.
 
One thing I would add that is often missed is that in Fall From Heaven, highly leveled units are far more important than in vanilla Civ. Most promotion effects have been doubled and many more new (fun) effects have been added. It is not unusual for a highly promoted unit to take down an enemy twice his strength, or for a one-man army to level a nation.

Also, one thing I tend to do with the Erberus mapscript is to go into the worldbuilder on turn 1 and link all the isolated valleys together. I love that map but I hate micromanaging a naval transport operation.
 
Beginner's civ: Play Capria of the Bannor, because it has no bonuses in the early game, and plays the most like regular Civ. Spiritual and Industrious are also exactly the way it is in Vanilla civ.

The biggest mistake people make is trying to get all the "basic" worker techs. In regular Civ it's a given. In FFH it's suicide. Here's what I recommend:

a) Move settler around for a nice combination of arable land and production tiles. Same thing as regular civ, just settle assuming you won't be chopping forests.
b) Research agriculture first, then mysticism. Build worker (still same as Civ4), then build warriors and settlers like it's a raging barbarians game. You can build settler earlier or wait until capital grows to happy cap, doesn't matter, it's personal style.
c) Ancient chants provides monuments. Then, choose education for cottages OR mysticism for elder councils and pagan temples. You can rely on cottages or specialists to research technologies, it's up to you. If you choose mysticism, build academy in capital is almost always a good move (again, same as regular Civ4)
d) Notice calendar comes very early. It's very tempting to get that, and then boast your happy cap. I would suggest you do not do that. Instead, research crafting and mining. Mining reveals copper. If you see copper, you can go for bronze working and get bronze weapons and/or axeman. If not, mining unlocks archery, which makes no logical sense "except" to allow you to defend yourself with archers.

Now that you're safe, start experimenting!!
 
Also, one thing I tend to do with the Erberus mapscript is to go into the worldbuilder on turn 1 and link all the isolated valleys together. I love that map but I hate micromanaging a naval transport operation.

That's a great idea! I hadn't thought about that but it would help to further trade and warmongering if you could get to someone else before astronomy.
 
Welcome to FFH.

DL the guide, browse over it.

The only real way to figure this game out is to play, play, play!

I would start with one of the Barb civs, or maybe Grigori.
 
OK, I'm up to turn 270ish now.

I've got 7 cities. Still not much activity (probably due to my relative isolation (no land connection to other civs or barbarians)).

It looks like this:
civ4screenshot0060kc4.jpg


2 new questions:

Economy: Any pointers to keep my economy running better? It 'feels' like I need to raise the tax rate more than in regular BtS to keep running a positive cashflow. I have very few units (7 warriors, 2 axeman, 2 adepts, 2 workers, 1 caravel and 1 scout), so I don't think that is the problem. Any good buildings? I'm building an inn now in one of my cities. Maybe that will help? I've also got courthouses in 4 or 5 cities, so that should help too.

Terraforming: IIRC I read somewhere that you can change land tiles in FfH2. Is that correct? And if it is, how do I do it? I would like to make a connection to the next valley, to get some action from the barbarians...

Thanks again! :)
 
The civics are very important for your economy. Depending on what you are in now, you may want to consider city states even though you are not particularly big yet. It is good for pece time.

You have alot of undeveloped forests. Consider chopping about 2/3 or more of them down for better improvements. your cities are pretty small for this point in the game. Bigger cities either work more cottages, or have more specialists, both of which can keep your tax rate down.

Buildings arer markets, money changes, and tax offices for cash. Inns and taverns halp a little, but not as much. Make sure you have the holy building in your hoy city, which will give you gold (except for with the ashen veil, which gives you beakers). Put the Bazaar of Marmon(sp?) in your holy city for extra money.

You can do limited terraforming, but no removing mountains. All these are spells. Spring eliminates desert, Vitalize improves one level in any terrain, scorch causes deserts, snowfall temporarily causes ice. Following fellowship of the leaves will cause your forests to become ancirnt forests.
 
Ew, you're using the Erebus mapscript? I'd avoid that in the future and stick to more familiar mapscripts, which are much unchanged from the Civ4 versions.
 
Speed is slower in FFH 2 (officially on purpose).

Expect it to play like one speed bump slower than vanilla.

Also very important to note: Experience / Promotions are far more important than in Vanilla (usually double the effect) + the base power of most units in the early stages of the game up to early midgame is more drawn out (in your game that might be until ~ Turn 350) so the power of your units is more down to battle-hardened they are. That might be a much bigger factor than the difference between Axemen and Warriors. Warriors are rather powerful for a rather long time in FFH2 compared to vanilla. No better offensive units than Warriors for the first 100 Turns or so is very possible in a game of normal speed. And while not really good you might still survive with a big force of warriors until around turn 200 allright. At least on the lower difficulties.

Also the early game is designed to give more time to play with the "new tools" so be-lining into military does pay off in that your Axemen / Hunters / Horsemen will be quite good for quite some time to come.
It has been smothened a bit! in the most recent patches but its still like it should be.

If you really dislike the slower pace switch to quick allright. (and stay the hell away from marathon unless you absolutely love games spanning days if not weeks. Epic more than enough provides for long games. And normal should be comparable to a good epic session of vanilla)


All in all for one of your first games and provided you are isolated you seem to do quite well :). (No need to do really good on your first few tries, given how fast you seem to grasp things that'll come to pass fast enough... Also don't hesitate to go up in difficulty a notch or two if the AI proves to low of a challenge. A direct comparison to BtS-difficulty will not really be helpful. Don't shy away from monarch or even emperor when you squash / dominate the AI time after time... Immortal and up still is quite demanding but for many players the jump to Monarch / Emperor comes sooner or later.)

Economy: Some things are key to keeping your science-slider up.
Early game: Getting markets from festivals tech helps very much (running merchants and settling great merchants if you get one / some might also help.), cheap and effective.
If at peace city states civic (from cartography, government category) works wonders. (Aristocracy might help as well and is not so problematic in war but will take some consideration because it makes Farms less effective in terms of food-production.)
Running pacifism civic (one of 3 starting possibilities, social values category) is very expensive in terms of upkeep so you might want to consider switching to Religion or Nationalism or whatever else suits your fancy. (Its actually a fairly weak civic overall and is not really advisable to people new to the mod)

You founded a religion if i spot that rightly (Empyrean) so as in Vanilla building a shrine with a great prophet and spreading your religion liberally will sure help.

Small empires might win just as well as large ones do. That is very much down to civ / settings and strategy. On overall tendency if you can handle large-scale-empire micromanagement in vanilla very well you might likely get along well with that in FFH 2 as well. Otherwise you might want to stick to a smaller one.
But monitor your civic-choices and your choice of civ + abilities and preferences very much
(God-King civic is a godsend for very small empires for example. Large ones might rather want to stick to city-states instead...).
Quite a number of civs here has advantage from smaller / larger empires (Kuoritates / Calabim under Flauros might be good examples of civs strongly favoring one above the other.


And on mapscripts: downright starting with Erebus might prove tricky. (by all means at least set sea-level to low. Then the naval part becomes a bit less of a hassle.). Cephalo still works on that script and may one day make sure at least as an option that connection via Land is guaranteed. So don't expect it to work without any problems / imbalance just yet.
Also on Erebus-maps its advisable to overpopulate a bit (1-3 additional civs compared to your usual number of civs provides a better experience usually.)

If you like warmongering play Lakes or Pangea allright.
Otherwise you might want to stick to continents or other Scripts you did like in Vanilla (usually a decent idea anyways.).


On terraforming:

Small-scale is possible quite early (As mentioned mountains can never be terraformed. That's down to the civ 4-engine and how it handles peaks i believe.)

Spring (The spell you can have your Adepts cast when having Water-Mana after you promote one to the Water I sphere-promotion) turns deserts (without Floodplains feature!) into plains (and is thus very useful if you settle in desert-heavy terrain.). Just move your adept on a desert tile and cast the spell with it. (trying the Gift of Kylorin Scenario gives a neat insight into spellcasting. It might be a good tutorial if you want to learn how to terraform...)

Scorch (The spell you can have your Adepts cast when having Sun-Mana after you promote one to the Sun I sphere-promotion) turns Plains into Deserts. So it might be useful to lay traps for incoming invaders / barbarians.
It also turns Ice-Tiles into tundra. Which might make it a bit helpful (surely not stellar though) if you have a city to hook up some resources in colder pastures and want to beef up the terrain a bit. (It might also help to terrorize some enemies by turning their terrain into plains. I'm not utterly sure right now if you can cast it in enemy territory though.)

Blaze (Spell gained by Fire 1 Promotion) can be used to burn down jungels which regrow as forests afterwards as a possible substitute for chopping them (proceed with caution though! Forest fires do spread.) which will take some time.
Raging forest-fires can be put out by an Adept casting Spring (Water 1 Spell) right next to the burning Tile.

Some time during the game hell terrain may spread on Erebus if bad things happen in the game (thats actually quite bad for most civs. There are a few exceptions though.)
Here the Life 1 Promotion (Sanctify spell) might help to turn hell back into normal terrain.


The real deal with terraforming though comes actually very late into the game.
At Druids / Archmages (for Archmages you'll also need Nature-Mana hooked up) both need to be Promoted to Nature 1+2+3 (so 3 Promotions needed or 2 for Druids because they allready start with nature 1) to learn the Vitalize Spell (and end-game techs as well with Commune with Nature and Strenght of Will respectively) which turns most terrain into Grassland gradually
(so Ice ---> Tundra, Tundra/Desert---> Plains Plains ----> Grassland, also works on Deserts with Floodplains unlike Spring which will produce superb tiles.).

Then there is also Snowfall (Which is mostly just available to Illian civilization. The followers of the God of Winter) which will turn terrain cold (temporarily?) and Temples of the Hand (Illian substitute for Pagan Temples) which turn all the cities fat cross into Ice (permanently).

Another if completely unreliable way to perform some terraforming is Wonder (Spell gained Chaos 3 Promotion) which casts multiple random effects. Including some which turn surrounding terrain into hell-terrain and also possibly the other terrain-modifying effects. Just listed here for sake of completeness. Use for purposeful terraforming not reccomended. (unless you really love hell breaking loose of course. :p)


If i remember rightly that's all what can be said about terraforming in FFH 2.




PS: Also count me in with Mesix that the Elves (Arendel, Amelanchier, Thessa and Faeryl) should give a good experience for starters, with them you can just build your improvements in forested tiles instead of having to chop them.

The Ljosalfar focus a bit more on Archery-Line (of techs and units) and turteling / defense,
The Svartalfar are a bit more offensive and favor the recon line and to a lesser degree the arcane line (of techs and units.)
Overall the elves both are rock-solid and easy-to-play civs for builders. (Religionwise Fellowship of Leaves from Way of the Forests tech is very! advisable for both of them. At least until you really get a grip on them. But usually ever.)


As well as the Hippus (especially under Tasunke) if you like Warmongering very much (just focus on the mounted line with them very much, they have terrifying cavalry...).
(Rohanna might do a tad better for you than Tasunke if you like an amalgam of strong Warmongering and building + conquering big empires. Financial trait is a godsend for getting that maintenance covered. Just like it is in Vanilla.)


A very interesting thing to know from you in turn would be how well you can handle the Doviello (after grasping the very basics with whatever civ you fancy. At your leisure of course. ;)) / how easy they are really play from a vanilla-players perspective.
It's quite often advertised as a good civ for starters (when lead by Mahla, Stay away from Chardaron though, that one downright sucks imo) but i have my serious doubts about that one.
But my perspective could be radically wrong (i will sure be not completely convinced by just a single voice, but each insight is worth it) and since i also try to spread the word about FFH2 here and there + give some helpful tips for a start (possibly to players who are not so much into forums) an unbiased perspective might prove quite helpful to give good advice in the future.
 
OK. Thanks for all the pointers.
I actually like the Erebus script (provided there are at least some valleys connected).

I think I've got a fair grasp of the basics now. I think it's time for a new game in which I can implement the things I've learned about the early game. :)

Thanks guys! :)
 
OK. Thanks for all the pointers.
I actually like the Erebus script (provided there are at least some valleys connected).

I think I've got a fair grasp of the basics now. I think it's time for a new game in which I can implement the things I've learned about the early game. :)

Thanks guys! :)

Let us know how it goes, I woulda given some pointer but I was busy copying some down myself from other people!

One thing Im having trouble figuring out is how people can get such high populations in citites and yet build nothing but cottages? I over heard that is a strategy. Not sure how to do that, I have to place a farm on every tile to get and keep a population in the teens.
 
In regards to economy, this may be a stupid question, but are you running Pacifism? That can be murder mid and late game (and sometimes early game) due to high unit upkeep costs. Godking can start to wear thin when your empire gets bigger, which yours seems to be. Courthouses can also do wonders to keep you above the red.
 
@ StormbringerGT: Settle near lots of Food-sources or lots of Flood Plains.

Adopt Agriculture + go for Sanitation early. (this one really turns down the number of Farms needed to sustain lots of cottages.)

Oh and the elves just adopt FoL and get ancient forests everywhere + adopt Guardian of Nature... That'll do for them to grow as big as they fancy.

The other option i know of is only available after adopting the Ashen Veil religion: Running sacrifice the weak civic in the social values category...

Also Garanaries and Smokehouses while expensive do help a city to grow fast from quite low to 2-digit. Provided you can spare the hammers. (usually only really viable if either having lots of lifestock or grain resources respectively.)

Much more isn't to it, at least not in general and independent of civ. (unless of course you have a steady supply of Greath Merchants. Those also provide one food each. So not that hard to do as Sidar for example if you really want it...)
 
I got sick of the erebus mapscript never giving me any passages to the outside world, so i modded it a bit myself. I think i got the tip from someone on this forum a couple of months ago, so i'll give it to you since it really made my game experience a lot better, and can be done in about two minutes.

First, go to your Beyond the Sword->Mods->Fall from Heaven 2->PublicMaps folder. Open up Erebus.py in notepad. Look for the line (the third configurable line in the script) that says "self.SoftenPeakPercent = 0.0". Change this value to somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2. Save the script as "Erebusia"

Voila! Just choose Erebusia in your next game and watch 10-20% of the mountains become hills! You can tweak the number yourself to suit your own demands, if you really like chokeholds you could probably just set the value to 0.02 or something.
 
Let us know how it goes

Will do. I am fairly certain I'll run into plenty more questions in my next game... ;)


I got sick of the erebus mapscript never giving me any passages to the outside world, so i modded it a bit myself. I think i got the tip from someone on this forum a couple of months ago, so i'll give it to you since it really made my game experience a lot better, and can be done in about two minutes.

First, go to your Beyond the Sword->Mods->Fall from Heaven 2->PublicMaps folder. Open up Erebus.py in notepad. Look for the line (the third configurable line in the script) that says "self.SoftenPeakPercent = 0.0". Change this value to somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2. Save the script as "Erebusia"

Voila! Just choose Erebusia in your next game and watch 10-20% of the mountains become hills! You can tweak the number yourself to suit your own demands, if you really like chokeholds you could probably just set the value to 0.02 or something.

That's a real good idea actually. I may just tweak the self.softenpeakpercent some. Perhaps to 0.05 or 0.1 or something like that...
 
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