First time FfH2 player -> Need help...

[DioBrando]

That's a real good idea actually. I may just tweak the self.softenpeakpercent some. Perhaps to 0.05 or 0.1 or something like that...

I myself found 0.12 to be a good setting. Most people that try it out usually ends up at 0.11-0.15.

 

[PekkaR]

Short of tweaking config files, playing Large Erebus map or Standard with Low Sea Level (there will still be a decent amount of ocean) helps a little at avoiding isolated starts. On average.

I'm ready to play an isolated start every now and then, but not too often because AIs don't seem to wage wars across seas efficiently. Which is odd since I think it got improved in vanilla Civ 4 at some point. Transports haven't been landing stacks of doom on my shores though. Another reason is that I'm already tempted often enough to worship the Octopus Overlords anyway.

 

[Darkness]

Let us know how it goes

I decided to play the scenario's.

Grand menagerie was a nice tutorial about the hunter unit and animals.

Now playing the momus scenario, which is basically a tutorial on war. It feels like a free-for-all grind-out with alternating opponents.

I spent the last 200+ turns turtled up in the corner with 6 cities, establishing 2 choke points (1 to the east and 1 to the north, each guarded by 4 swordsman (now upgraded to boarding parties), 3 archers and an adept (now a mage).

On noble level. Pretty depressing, ain't it?

Question:
How does the pirate cove / port thing work ? How do you build one ?

 

[Verdian]

Turtling for 200 turns on the Momus is not bad at all. That scenario can take some time.

Pirate Coves work by sacrificing work boats on the coast. They cannot be built within 3 tiles of one another, and the tile must be worked to grow. They are really nice for the Lanun, especially with Hannah.

 

[Darkness]

Turtling for 200 turns on the Momus is not bad at all. That scenario can take some time.

Is there a turn limit? I don't see it on the victory screen, but I've read other people mentioning a turn limit. I'm on the latest patch.

Pirate Coves work by sacrificing work boats on the coast. They cannot be built within 3 tiles of one another, and the tile must be worked to grow. They are really nice for the Lanun, especially with Hannah.

Thanks!

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Is there a turn limit? I don't see it on the victory screen, but I've read other people mentioning a turn limit. I'm on the latest patch.

There is a turn limit of 450 turns or so. You will be notified 100 turns earlier. Start preparing your attack, and mind that the infernals are your main enemy. They can get support from your losses if you follow Octapus Overlords, Counsil of Essus or Ashen Veil religion, as they do for the other civs that follow these. Read the thread for the Mommus in the Official FFH2 scenarios forum to get a hint of the strategies.

And don't build any naval forces on this scenario. The Krakens will make you sorry you did.

 

[hegemonkhan]

edited: decided to move this post from this thread and make it into a new thread

the new post-thread can be found in the strategy and tips stickied thread called:

beginners guide and basics for the new player
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here's the link for the threads in the strategy and tips stickied thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=257

here's the link for my thread called "beginners guide and basics for the new player":

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=308987

do not post in this thread ( ^ ) yet plz, since i'm not done, and i don't know how long the edit ability lasts. i may have to make additional posts to finish up the thread guide i'm making. and if other people's posts-comments are in between it'll be messy and cause confusion.

 

[Darkness]

@hegemonkhan: Good initiative. I'll keep that thread in mind...

So, after the monus thing I was quite ready for a change of pace. The clown's switch-on / switch-off personality gets really annoying once you start to go on the offensive...


So I decided to play a regular game as the Lanun (since I am already familiar with them now).
Erebus map, noble level, 8 AI civs, standard size map. I am Falamar.
Got a start at the coast, with a lot of flood plains and desert. Scout around a bit while I build some work boats (2 clams, 2 pirate coves). I am on a huge continent all alone and the continent basically has three things. mountains, flood plains and desert. I bee-lined for the octopus religion and get it. Because of all the deserts I decide to get a water 1 mage to cast "spring" on most of the desert. I've built a nice capital and 4 other cities by turn 180, but I still haven't met anyone. Going for optics now to get ships that can sail the ocean.
My capital has heron throne in it (which is great in combination with the civic that gives +50% hammers in the capital (god king?), also Tower of complacency and the wonder that gives a free mage guild in all cities.
So I think I'm doing pretty OK.

Questions:
- Hill Giants: Can't they attack cities? I've got half a dozen hill giants running around, but they haven't attacked my cities yet. They try to kill everything outside my borders, but they don't enter my lands. And what's the best way (unit) to kill these guys. They are very strong...
- Octopus overlords doesn't have a shrine? 'cause I can't find it in the civiclopedia...
- What mana types are best? I realize this varies for situations and civilizations, but it's a bit hard to decide what mana I need. There are so many spells, which makes it very difficult to decide...

 

[bonedog]

You're using the Erebus map again, so that might explain your isolation.

Hill giants behave like animals, in that they won't enter civilized territory (unless they're named Larry, Moe, or Curly).

The OO shrine is The Necronomicon. You can build it with a great prophet.

 

[hegemonkhan]

there's actually two type of "animals"

this is right in the civpedia under the units tab or unit category tab (inside the unit category tab should have it right there for u)

unit category tab in the civpedia:

animals
*beasts* <-see
melee
mounted
archery
naval
recon
seige
arcane
discipline

1. animals. they can NOT enter your culture/territory. unless they are owned by another civ. (beware some mean-sneaky humans players who use subdue animals from scouts/hunters and wipe u out all your units with their invisible spiders....V.V)

2. beasts. (they are like super animals). i'm not sure if these can enter your culture/territory or not. (i wanna say that NONE of them can, unless again owned by another civ. but i'm not certain)
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hills giants are either animals or beasts. i wanna lean toward them being beasts (makes more sense than animal...but i can't remember what they actually are and too lazy to look up). but whether they are beast or animal, they can NOT enter your culture/territory, unless they are owned by another civ. as has already been mentioned.
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the recon units' (scouts, hunters, and the ranger path, but NOT the assassin path) gets a bonus against BOTH (i think. this could be wrong or changed) beast and animal (most just know of course their bonus against animal). however, the scout is too weak (2 str) to kill hill giants despite the bonus against them. hunters have a hard time too (unless they got some exp/lvl/promotions), but ranger+ waste hill giants.
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grigori dragon slayers are NOT the only unit with a bonus against dragons, the recon and ranger line units get a bonus against dragons too since dragons are beasts.
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easiest way to kill hill giants is to simply wait (get higher military techs and units) until u got a strong enough unit (str wise. or slightly less str but enough promotions to make up for it). an axemen by it self will usually lose against a hill giant. however, with some promotions or copper or (enchanted blade from an enchant lvl 1 spell/promotion adapt), the axeman can win. or simple use 2 or 3 axemen or hunters or horsemen. etc...i think u get the idea...
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btw... it seems like u might be trying to explore around with units....don't it's not really worth it. early game the units (animals=wolf, lion, tiger, spiders, bears, etc and beasts=hill giant?) outside your culture/territory are much more powerful than the units u got at the moment. it's not really profitable trying to explore for the most part. it's much better to be using your city production for things that don't go to waste from some spider or bear or hill giant or gang attack of lions/wolves

however, if u are subduing animals than this is profitable and it is the tactic/strategy u are intentionally doing/using.
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(i actually had this exact same problem when i first played and took me forever to figure out how to build them....finally i learned u use great people to build them..but then had another road block...didn't know different holy shrines required different great people lol. so i'm very sympathetic/compassionate to this question u have)

what do u mean by shrine? the holy shrine (the religions "palace-like" building) or do u jsut mean its basic temple building ?

the holy shrine is called the necronicon

i can't at the moment remember the name of its basic temple building though (sorry). but u jsut build it once u can. nothing tricky like the holy shrine.
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as for mana types/spells, as u said it is subjective based on situation and personal preference.

well first off, ask yourself, WHAT DO U NEED/WANT ? than search the civpedia for the spell that does it

(it's actually easier if u search by the promotion tab and look at the mana types within it in the civpedia, instead of the spells and abilities tab in the civpedia)

basically u wanna look mainly at the lvl 1 (though u can look at lvl 2 also but that requires mages and is a bit farther off. lvl 3 is too far off, unless u spefically need it for your strategy or u wanna try them out) spells that the adapt can use and simply build the mana node of those spells that u want/need the most.
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one final suggestion,

for the most part it's better to NOT stack up on a or only a few mana types (for example: getting 3 air manas)

it's much better to try to get as many mana types as u can (for example: getting 1 air mana, 1 water mana, 1 fire mana) since this gives u more spells and variaty of abilities.

only in competitive games, and when u know what your doing with a already well known strategy/tactic for your war-military force and magic u want to use with it, THAN do u want to stack up on a or a few mana types (for example: if u plan on using fire affinity units, than the more fire mana u have the more powerful those units get)
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finally a great way to learn everything about FFH2: (make a custom game)

easiest difficulty level, inland sea map, low sea level, whatever map size u want (though i'd stay with the lower sizes, since u do have barbarians option on or u should anyways), have barbs be in the game (so u can practice and learn military-units and military magic-units) but NOT raging barbs, and NO other civs. choose whatever civ/leader u want.

it's kinda boring, but it's a great way to see and try and test and learn everything.

if it's too boring add 1 other civ, raise the difficulty, add more civs, have raging barbarians on, agressive ai, etc...
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last point about what magic, mana types/spells, to choose:

think of the spells in terms of categories:

(it makes it easier to understand and choose/decide what u need/want)

(i wish some one would do this for us in the civpedia. make a spell category tab jsut like there is a unit category tab)

"terraforming" spells: change the land (vitalize=lvl 3 nature spell, blaze=lvl 1 or 2 fire spell, spring= lvl 1 water spell, etc...)

"summoning" spells: makes summon combat units (don't have memorized, most lvl 2 spells are/have summon spells)

"unit enhancement" spells: enhances units (haste=lvl 1 body spell, enchanted blade, lvl 1 enchant spell, etc..)

"city" spells: spells that when the magic unit casts the spell and stays in/on the city tile, that city gets bonuses (inspiration=?, don't have these rememorized....)

"direct damage combat" spells. (fireball..etc...)

etc..hopefully u get the idea...

 

[Darkness]

You're using the Erebus map again, so that might explain your isolation.

I thought Erebus' problem was that valleys were not connected? That's actually not the case here, 'cause all valleys on my continent are connected... But you may be right. It doesn't really matter though. This isolation allows me to play a builder game and learn a lot...

Hill giants behave like animals, in that they won't enter civilized territory (unless they're named Larry, Moe, or Curly).

The OO shrine is The Necronomicon. You can build it with a great prophet.

Thanks!

Any ideas about the mana question?

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Any ideas about the mana question?

Opinions vary so much, that even a whole thread with dozens of people participating couldn't reach a verdict
If you look for that thread, it is relatively fresh, you could get an idea.

As Lanun, however, I would recoment Air and Body, for their 1st level spells. I think Air is generated from the palace, so you should be OK. If you are at the point you can build nodes, consider an enchantment node. Enchanted weapons are cool

 

[Demus]

about the mana:
it really depends on the situation.
If you want some offensive spells, go for air or fire mana. Air mana gives maelstrom, which damages all units in an area with a radius of 2 around the caster (even neutral and friendlies, so only use it within a SoD!). Fire mana gives fireballs, which have 2 movement and do collateral damage. Both are the level 2 spells, so you'll need to upgrade your adepts to mages. At the 3rd level (archmage), both spheres give a pretty decent summon.
For buff spells, try body or enchantment. At lvl 1, haste will add 1 movement point to the entire stack (non-mechanical only though, so ships and siege equipment can't be hasted). The lvl 2 spell, regeneration, basically gives your entire stack march (+ heal rate, heal while moving). If you get into larger wars with stacks vs stacks, body mana is recommended.
You don't really need that many enchantment adepts, since it's effects are permanent. At lvl 1, enchanted blade gives a damage bonus to all melee units on the same tile(not sure about disciple or mounted). The 2nd level, flaming arrows, adds 1 fire damage to all archery units on that tile.
More situational, but still usefull to read into, are spirit, life and law mana.
Death mana is only recommended for magic-only civs, it's very useful for a civ like the sheiam, but only if you spam it (all 3 spells are summons, with the higher 2 having death mana affinity: the more death mana you have, the stronger the summons become)

fixed a slight oversight

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

just wanted to point out that Body III is Flesh Golem, not Wonder ( Wonder is Chaos III )

 

[hegemonkhan]

err... i finally got done with anotehr huge post...scroll up and take a look at it, i give a bit of feedback for u, including about mana. (it's post # 50, not too far to scroll up...until u get to the bottom of my post lol...and than try to scroll to the top of my post lol)
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here's how i like to construct my magic units/forces:

arcane

*can ONLY have 3-4 archmages (national unit) (conventionally)
*mages are unlimited in amount u can have
*adapts are unlimited in the amount u can have

discipline (depends on what your state religion is. when u change religions u lose some units..i think. not sure which ones u keep and which u lose)

*can ONLY have 3-4 high priests (national unit)
*can ONLY have 3-4 inquisitors (i'm not sure if these still exist or were removed) (national unit)
*priests are unlimited
*lowest unit (the thane of kilmorph, disciple of leaves, savant of veil, etc..) (the "missionary" unit) (NO spells unit) are unlimited

my types/jobs of magic units:

1. "utility" city unit = city spells and unit enhancement spells and terraforming spells
2. "utility" combat-embedded unit = unit enhancement spells and terraforming spells
3. terraforming unit = terraforming spells
4. combat units= combat 1-5, spell extension 1 and 2, mobility 1, a single (direct damage=attack spell or summon) spell type promotion.
5. etc.. u probably get the idea. (SPECIALIZE most of your magic units but also keep some "do it all or utility" magic units)

1. 1 "utility" combat-embedded unit in each force/stack or SOD's (stack of doom 's) (adapt->mage->archmage). simple get EVERY spell promotion u can (except direct combat spells, aka direct damage or summons). also the +1 movement promotion too (mobility 1 ?). also u might also want to get the spell extension? promotion as it "might" help some of the spells u might use.

2. 1 "utility" city unit for each city (stack of doom 's) (adapt->mage->archmage). simple get EVERY spell promotion u can. also the +1 movement promotion too (mobility 1 ?). also u might also want to get the spell extension? promotion as it "might" help some of the spells u might use. this unit ALWAYS ends it's turn back in the city with the city spell(s) casted-activated.

3. 1-2 terraforming units. these are your mobile terraforming units going around your empire/cities improving your land.

4. as many as u can/want/need/able to support combat units= fireball mages, etc

5. etc.. u probably get the idea. (SPECIALIZE most of your magic units but also keep some "do it all or utility" magic units)

 

[Darkness]

err... i finally got done with anotehr huge post...scroll up and take a look at it, i give a bit of feedback for u, including about mana. (it's post # 50, not too far to scroll up...until u get to the bottom of my post lol...and than try to scroll to the top of my post lol)

Seen it. Thanks!

 

[hegemonkhan]

jsut finished post #55 now lol

if u don't mind i'll think i'll take a break from this thread...i don't wanna be making a pattern of late finsihing up long posts as i kind got going now...but it gonna end now... no more "jsut finished post #? now lol"

 

[Thunder_Gr]

about the mana:
*post*

Well, I do not think Lanun should go very deep in the Arcane line. Basicaly level I spells matter, and Level II availability will come much later, and even then he might not have a single adept at Level 4...

 

[Grey Fox]

Falamar is charismatic however, and if you manage to get Form of Titan and the Commander at Mil.Tactics he can make instant Mages with just Apprenticeship+Conquest.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Falamar is charismatic however, and if you manage to get Form of Titan and the Commander at Mil.Tactics he can make instant Mages with just Apprenticeship+Conquest.

Nice points!
But I consider these advanced strategies for a non arcane civ.
I suppose that if he wished to play with magic, he would have chosen an arcane civ.