pigswill
fly (one day)
Here it is:
Spoiler :
Fix the 5th trash game
- Thread starter cabert
- Start date
try to double click on the save
Other than that, it's reinstallation time
Rules reminder
1) Some others did give the timing for this first round, but let me put it here again : the first round is to be submitted before friday (mid)night american east coast time, which is saturday morning here in Europe and saturday evening in Australia. The first round is usually fast to play.
If everyone is done earlier, we can start to open the saves and select a "winner" earlier and have more time to discuss.
If we choose a game earlier, we'll have more time to play the next round (I won't change the deadline, even if we're very early).
2) It's not mandatory to play all turnsets, however please let us know if you want/need to skip a round, so we can start the voting thing without unnecessary delay.
Same for the voting. If you're not going to vote because your cat is dead, you're grandmother ate your mouse or you're flying around the world, let us know and we won't have to wait for you.
3) In the previous game, those not submitting a game weren't allowed to vote. I'm not sure it's a good rule (less votes = more random factors). I think it was a reaction to a large number of "missing saves" on the trash rounds. If we all remember that it's more a fun game than a competition (and thus it's not a big deal to be selected as trash game), we won't need this rule.
4) Reports need to be in spoiler tags. More so if you write a report on monday for a game due on friday.
Now, let's all fly away,
fashion.If one you guys (or girl, hi Kmad) manages a win in the first round, don't forget to put it in a spoiler
FeedBack
Time for some FeedBack!
Oh, man! You locked the modified assets!!! 
I usually do my reports based on the autolog, so I don't have to waste time home to report. I do this killing time at work. Now my wife will go crazy!!!
Well, what's done is done and I'll just have to get used to it.
How do you guys log it? Is there an in-game option to logging (like the ALT+E in the HoF mod and Ruff_hi's logger)? Or do I have to alt-tab to notepad?
I usually do my reports based on the autolog, so I don't have to waste time home to report. I do this killing time at work. Now my wife will go crazy!!!
Well, what's done is done and I'll just have to get used to it.
How do you guys log it? Is there an in-game option to logging (like the ALT+E in the HoF mod and Ruff_hi's logger)? Or do I have to alt-tab to notepad?
If you really want to use the autologging feature, you can use the external tool (see the DL section).Oh, man! You locked the modified assets!!!
I usually do my reports based on the autolog, so I don't have to waste time home to report. I do this killing time at work. Now my wife will go crazy!!!
Well, what's done is done and I'll just have to get used to it.
How do you guys log it? Is there an in-game option to logging (like the ALT+E in the HoF mod and Ruff_hi's logger)? Or do I have to alt-tab to notepad?
We don't really need a turnlog. What we want is to understand what you did, what you did it for and what you're aiming for.
The internal log will be available to anyone who opens the save and is not very informative.
I can try to get us another save/starting position without locked assets, if it's too much of a drag. But that wouldn't be nice to those who played the game already
.
FeedBack
Time for some FeedBack!
Thanks! I'll give it a look!
I know it. I don't post the autolog. It's just for me to know what was happening in the game. I'm just too lazy to write everything as I'm actually doing it.
By all means, don't! I'm the lazy one here. Let me have the onus!I can try to get us another save/starting position without locked assets, if it's too much of a drag. But that wouldn't be nice to those who played the game already
I'll try playing tonight. Then I'll see how difficult it is to log every move manually.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
lurker?
who's a lurker?
You're drafted KMad. Don't try to resist, there is no escape.
what, you popped nationalism from a hut before 2400 BC? i refuse to believe it
FeedBack
Time for some FeedBack!
what, you popped nationalism from a hut before 2400 BC? i refuse to believe it
C'mon! Give your husband something to complain about!
Roland Johansen
Deity
Thanks to everyone about your opinions about a turnlog. Now I know a bit in what detail you're supposed to show what you've done in the first few turns. Cabert is right that I usually play with some lightly modded game rules and some interface enhancements posted on this site. But I use them as mods, not as customassets, so I had no problem loading the game.
I think that I'll do a manual turnlog then. It won't be that much 'work'. I'll just note the things that I think are important decisions in my game and some important events.
For people who have problems loading the game due to customassets mods:
Delete (or move to another location):
C:\Documents and Settings\[User Name]\Application Data\My Games\Warlords\cache
C:\Documents and Settings\Dennis\My Documents\My Games\Warlords\CustomAssets
If this doesn't work, then I don't know what the problem is. I also would advice a reinstall. Don't worry about completely removing these directories. They will be recreated on starting a new game.
The cache directory tends to store some information about the mod-assets used in your last game and that might come into conflict with your present game which uses different standard game rules.
To avoid caching, I changed some lines in the CivilizationIV.ini file:
; Disable caching of file system (may slow initialization)
DisableFileCaching = 1
; Disable caching of xml and file system (may slow initialization)
DisableCaching = 1
I don't know how well that works, but I think it might avoid some problems when you regularly switch between mods.
I do agree a bit with Cabert about the criteria that are important in the starting phase of the game (you start to wonder why he invited me, huh...).
For me expansion is also very important. I'll just generally formulate it as your ability to capture a significant piece of territory before everything is settled. Maybe first developing your first city in a powerful settler production center is better, maybe settling a second city as fast as possible is better. I won't decide that until I've played the game myself upto the first save point.
Finding interesting settling locations (and knowing what is interesting about them by knowing the locations of strategic resources) is important too. Improving your land and building enough workers to improve your land is important too in my opinion. A size 5 city without any terrain improvements is not very useful. Other things like founding religions, developing technologies, creating a war machine, scouting to stop the spawning of barbarians, maybe some world wonders can also be important depending on the situation.
I think that I'll do a manual turnlog then. It won't be that much 'work'. I'll just note the things that I think are important decisions in my game and some important events.
For people who have problems loading the game due to customassets mods:
Delete (or move to another location):
C:\Documents and Settings\[User Name]\Application Data\My Games\Warlords\cache
C:\Documents and Settings\Dennis\My Documents\My Games\Warlords\CustomAssets
If this doesn't work, then I don't know what the problem is. I also would advice a reinstall. Don't worry about completely removing these directories. They will be recreated on starting a new game.
The cache directory tends to store some information about the mod-assets used in your last game and that might come into conflict with your present game which uses different standard game rules.
To avoid caching, I changed some lines in the CivilizationIV.ini file:
; Disable caching of file system (may slow initialization)
DisableFileCaching = 1
; Disable caching of xml and file system (may slow initialization)
DisableCaching = 1
I don't know how well that works, but I think it might avoid some problems when you regularly switch between mods.
I do agree a bit with Cabert about the criteria that are important in the starting phase of the game (you start to wonder why he invited me, huh...).
For me expansion is also very important. I'll just generally formulate it as your ability to capture a significant piece of territory before everything is settled. Maybe first developing your first city in a powerful settler production center is better, maybe settling a second city as fast as possible is better. I won't decide that until I've played the game myself upto the first save point.
Finding interesting settling locations (and knowing what is interesting about them by knowing the locations of strategic resources) is important too. Improving your land and building enough workers to improve your land is important too in my opinion. A size 5 city without any terrain improvements is not very useful. Other things like founding religions, developing technologies, creating a war machine, scouting to stop the spawning of barbarians, maybe some world wonders can also be important depending on the situation.
Thanks Roland, if nothing else, you solved the locked assets problem
IMHO most of us in this game will have similar early game moves. Mine are usually weaker than the rest, because I seem to be unable to focus on growth, and I also seem to be quite unlucky with huts.
When fixing time comes, I hope we'll see creative moves to get to the stars fast. It's good to have new people in this roster
Good learning for me, at least.
IMHO most of us in this game will have similar early game moves. Mine are usually weaker than the rest, because I seem to be unable to focus on growth, and I also seem to be quite unlucky with huts.
When fixing time comes, I hope we'll see creative moves to get to the stars fast. It's good to have new people in this roster
Good learning for me, at least.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
ah! i looked at the 01 fix the trash game and now i see the reason for the "not afraid of deity" question *giggle*. put me with the lower group, i play higher than monarch only OCC for laughs since it takes so little time. cabert your PMs did indeed convince me, most of all, reminding me that there shall be friendly bickering and learning, such fun! and i won't have to keep looking up the lurker comment code i can't ever remember.
seriously tho, disclaimer ... i'm quite good at the games that i play, but i play my own oddball KMad games. i don't sit down and do "random everything" like normal people, i play by my mood. i haven't done space race in a long time, and i'm a terrible whipper since when i'm playing a game i don't do math in my head (but i'm getting better at that part). so we will all turn out grateful for mice's rule so that we're not always playing my turns as the least successful ones
mini-report on the unpredictable way i already managed to go trashy. it's not a spoiler even if you haven't yet played, it's just silliness. i'll write up a report with techs and stuff that happened later (yes cabert i typed notes as i played )
seriously tho, disclaimer ... i'm quite good at the games that i play, but i play my own oddball KMad games. i don't sit down and do "random everything" like normal people, i play by my mood. i haven't done space race in a long time, and i'm a terrible whipper since when i'm playing a game i don't do math in my head (but i'm getting better at that part). so we will all turn out grateful for mice's rule so that we're not always playing my turns as the least successful ones
mini-report on the unpredictable way i already managed to go trashy. it's not a spoiler even if you haven't yet played, it's just silliness. i'll write up a report with techs and stuff that happened later (yes cabert i typed notes as i played
)Spoiler :
why did i not scout just a bit further there? so i scouted the same areas and in particular did NOT let myself scout those tiles the second time either (oh that was painful). i got the same two huts and the same results, so that worked out fine. the best part of my turn-set is that my warrior got more exp than Cam's did. BOTH play-thrus. the scary part about that is that i've played mostly no barbs lately. oh dear.
shyuhe
Deity
I think I got the worst luck of the bunch. I hate lions! Oh and a question to all - if I got a resource revealing tech that others didn't, should I reveal those results in the spoiler or not?
Spoiler :
FeedBack
Time for some FeedBack!
Nice question. Well, I think it'll be revealed to everybody as we'll open everyone's game to vote. If you think you need to hide them, write in a double-spoiler tag. I don't read the spoilers until I play the set, but I can't say for the others!
And I'm chanting again with the mantra: "you shall not read the spoilers"....
well, if the "trash game" isn't showing the special resource, you should not show it in screenies.
Not even spoilered.
We're bound to play pretend anyway, there will be games with copper, others with horses, some with iron...
We'll try to play honestly, pretending not to know...
It's easier if you don't put it right under our noses
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
oh right! i tend to put signs all over the place in my games. i put them enemy cities that i can tell where they are but can't see the city, and on resources. that'll drive you guys nuts besides being a spoiler. i'll reopen my save and take those out before i screenie it and upload it, thanks for the reminder.
for the save, do we change the name of it so that we don't end up with a bunch of saves that have the same name? i are easily confused.
for the save, do we change the name of it so that we don't end up with a bunch of saves that have the same name? i are easily confused.
FeedBack
Time for some FeedBack!
I saw it coming, but I forgot to write about it. In the last trash game we put our names in the saves. It makes things less confusing!
Maybe we should put it in this time too!
shyuhe
Deity
@cabert
I shall keep silent on the resources then! Although it'll definitely be altering my vote for which save is the best/worst.
Now to go rename my save to avoid confusion...
I shall keep silent on the resources then! Although it'll definitely be altering my vote for which save is the best/worst.
Now to go rename my save to avoid confusion...
Roland Johansen
Deity
I don't quite get it. If someone has discovered the revealing technology for a strategic resource and has found that resource on the map, then that is a positive thing for his/her game. I will be looking around the map to see if the player has found some resources (and if he/she has found some that haven't been discovered in the game that we're going to continue, then I'll try to forget it again ). Now, the discovery of resources is not one of the most important things when I'm judging the game. But if the resource is in reach and about to be settled, then it can be interesting.
I've finished the first section of the game, but before I upload it, I want to ask something. Just like KMadCandy, I have all kinds of signs and lines on my map. But they aren't spoilerish. They show where I'm planning my cities and where some critical resources are that I've discovered. But anyone can place cities and anyone can see the resources on the map. Should I really remove those signs?
I think that I'll upload my game log and future planning in a seperate text file if that's allright with you.
How can you know about a special resource while your game isn't showing it?
edit: How do you upload something with a counter (n views) next to it?
). Now, the discovery of resources is not one of the most important things when I'm judging the game. But if the resource is in reach and about to be settled, then it can be interesting.I've finished the first section of the game, but before I upload it, I want to ask something. Just like KMadCandy, I have all kinds of signs and lines on my map. But they aren't spoilerish. They show where I'm planning my cities and where some critical resources are that I've discovered. But anyone can place cities and anyone can see the resources on the map. Should I really remove those signs?
I think that I'll upload my game log and future planning in a seperate text file if that's allright with you.
How can you know about a special resource while your game isn't showing it?
edit: How do you upload something with a counter (n views) next to it?
shyuhe
Deity
Roland - I just hit the attach button on the advanced post. The paper clip icon...
Regarding the resource thing, as you said, we should just try our best to forget resource locations for saves that haven't discovered the appropriate tech yet (i.e., if a city will later spawn horses, we shouldn't take that into consideration when deciding best/worst save).
Regarding the resource thing, as you said, we should just try our best to forget resource locations for saves that haven't discovered the appropriate tech yet (i.e., if a city will later spawn horses, we shouldn't take that into consideration when deciding best/worst save).
(a.) Naming conventions
'Yes' ... please save your game with 'something like' "Trashy gandhi BC-2400 Your Name".
Despite numerous reminders, I was surprised how many P666-04 games were uploaded without the players' 'handles'.
(b.) Remove signs, keep future plans to 'bare bones'
The P666 series is about education; while part of it is about guidance, part of it is about having players make their own mistakes. If everyone gets instructions about how to micro-manage 'the next 40 turns' (especially from an experienced player) then few participants will be thinking for themselves. Being able to do your own 'dot maps' - whether literally with screenshots, or at least having a mental plan, is part of this process. If someone lays it out for you, I'd say you learn less than if you have a go yourself and compare results at the end of the round.
Likewise, future plans should be fairly vague at best. "We should gear up for war against Korea" is one thing, but giving lengthy instructions on how to set up your invasion force, with which cities doing what and how they're doing it, is not helping others learn from their mistakes.
Lots of chat about how things were done in a past round rather than how things should be done in a future round may not create the strongest games, but they will allow players some freedom to make mistakes and learn from them, or conversely the freedom to pull off great moves not considered by others on the roster.
Again, this one is about finding a sensible balance between putting forward strategic thoughts versus laying out tactical instructions.
Bottom line? I'd advocate that players remove the position flags from the games that they submit in this thread.
(c.) Hidden resources and other map features
Unfortunately we've yet to come up with any bright ideas about how to address this one other than to play the inherited game as you would normally without the knowledge of; a big Gold seam that's under fog of war in another game, or the one nearby Copper tile, or whatever. The players each just have to make an honest judgement call on what they would do without having 'the knowledge' sourced from another submission.
(d.) Voting for 'players' only
I still believe in the past rule that if you don't make a submission then you forfeit your right to vote (unless you're the 'Returning Officer' in which case you get the casting vote). Roster members who don't make a submission in a round still have the opportunity to comment and make a contribution to the process.
'Yes' ... please save your game with 'something like' "Trashy gandhi BC-2400 Your Name".
Despite numerous reminders, I was surprised how many P666-04 games were uploaded without the players' 'handles'.
(b.) Remove signs, keep future plans to 'bare bones'
The P666 series is about education; while part of it is about guidance, part of it is about having players make their own mistakes. If everyone gets instructions about how to micro-manage 'the next 40 turns' (especially from an experienced player) then few participants will be thinking for themselves. Being able to do your own 'dot maps' - whether literally with screenshots, or at least having a mental plan, is part of this process. If someone lays it out for you, I'd say you learn less than if you have a go yourself and compare results at the end of the round.
Likewise, future plans should be fairly vague at best. "We should gear up for war against Korea" is one thing, but giving lengthy instructions on how to set up your invasion force, with which cities doing what and how they're doing it, is not helping others learn from their mistakes.
Lots of chat about how things were done in a past round rather than how things should be done in a future round may not create the strongest games, but they will allow players some freedom to make mistakes and learn from them, or conversely the freedom to pull off great moves not considered by others on the roster.
Again, this one is about finding a sensible balance between putting forward strategic thoughts versus laying out tactical instructions.
Bottom line? I'd advocate that players remove the position flags from the games that they submit in this thread.
(c.) Hidden resources and other map features
Unfortunately we've yet to come up with any bright ideas about how to address this one other than to play the inherited game as you would normally without the knowledge of; a big Gold seam that's under fog of war in another game, or the one nearby Copper tile, or whatever. The players each just have to make an honest judgement call on what they would do without having 'the knowledge' sourced from another submission.
(d.) Voting for 'players' only
I still believe in the past rule that if you don't make a submission then you forfeit your right to vote (unless you're the 'Returning Officer' in which case you get the casting vote). Roster members who don't make a submission in a round still have the opportunity to comment and make a contribution to the process.
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