Flynn cops a plea

[Timsup2nothin]

The next domino tips. Since the only reason to let Flynn take a plea deal is if he will testify in a "bigger case," the immediate question has to be "who is bigger than the National Security Director?"

 

[Arakhor]

I'm sure we can rely upon Trump to tell us that Flynn was a low-level nobody, a teasmade at best...

 

[Lexicus]

Personally I'm excited to see the line The Intercept will take on this.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm pretty sure we can rely on D'ump to issue him a pardon, and then claim it is because Flynn is "a good family man," not just a transparent way to keep him from testifying.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Scheduled photo op at White House cancelled. Spokesman says "It was an error on the schedule and there never was a photo op today, no we didn't cancel because the president is ducking questions about Michael Flynn."

We have finally achieved transparency. The administration are so bad at lying that the truth is visible.

 

[Arakhor]

I'm pretty sure we can rely on D'ump to issue him a pardon, and then claim it is because Flynn is "a good family man," not just a transparent way to keep him from testifying.

Except that won't keep him from testifying, because accepting a pardon explicitly means that he accepts that he was guilty of the crime and therefore can't keep silent for fear of incriminating himself. (Not that I expect Trump to actually realise that, of course.)

 

[dutchfire]

I must admit, I hadn't expected them to be so guilty and so bad at concealing it.

The way I look at it, there are four layers in the Trumpland cake:
1) Trump
2) The Trump family
3) Leading figures in the campaign and administration
4) The nobodies.

You only let someone take a plea deal if it allows you to nail someone in a higher layer. We already knew that some people in level 4 had been flipped. Flynn I'd put in layer 3, that he has flipped should frighten Jared.

 

[metalhead]

Yep. The list of people above National Security Advisor in the pecking order is pretty short. Trump, Pence, perhaps Reince Priebus, and Jivanka. That's really it as far as Mike Flynn is concerned.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Except that won't keep him from testifying, because accepting a pardon explicitly means that he accepts that he was guilty of the crime and therefore can't keep silent for fear of incriminating himself. (Not that I expect Trump to actually realise that, of course.)

A pardon means that he can't be punished for the crime. If he can't be punished it no longer matters if he incriminates himself. That's the point. Scooter Libby accepted the blame, kept his mouth shut, and rode off into the sunset. Flynn will be doing the same.

 

[Lexicus]

Except that won't keep him from testifying, because accepting a pardon explicitly means that he accepts that he was guilty of the crime and therefore can't keep silent for fear of incriminating himself. (Not that I expect Trump to actually realise that, of course.)

Doesn't matter. The only reason he's doing a plea deal is to stop from going to jail for the rest of his life. A pardon removes that inducement and leaves no incentive for him to cooperate with the investigation.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Yep. The list of people above National Security Advisor in the pecking order is pretty short. Trump, Pence, perhaps Reince Priebus, and Jivanka. That's really it as far as Mike Flynn is concerned.

Don't forget Hope Hicks. She is one of Trump's "pretty young things" that has been at his side since he opted to run.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Doesn't matter. The only reason he's doing a plea deal is to stop from going to jail for the rest of his life. A pardon removes that inducement and leaves no incentive for him to cooperate with the investigation.

Don't forget his son. He hasn't been charged yet and part of the deal might be that he tells all to keep his son out of jail.

 

[Lexicus]

Flynn's son? Someone fill me in if the answer is yes, I didn't know about this. But even if you're right, can't Trump just pardon his son too?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Flynn's son? Someone fill me in if the answer is yes, I didn't know about this. But even if you're right, can't Trump just pardon his son too?

Yes, Flynn is almost certainly taking the deal to keep his son out of it, and yes, I assume D'ump will be pardoning Flynn Jr as well.

EDIT: To clarify...Flynn is copping to lying to the FBI, and apparently all investigation into his clearly criminal financial dealings with Turkey is being stopped. The Turkey dealings are where his son shares his vulnerability.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Flynn's son was his partner in crime. He has been part of the money laundering and Turkish business all along. Also remember, if any state laws have been broken in Flynn's business, a pardon does not apply. Lying is only one aspect of Flynn's deceit.

 

[Birdjaguar]

If, to get this deal, Flynn has already talked and spilled the beans on who directed him to chat with the Russians, then a pardon doesn't matter. We don't yet know how much Flynn has already said to get to this point. If he has told Mueller that Trump told him to work with the Russians, a pardon doesn't help Trump.

 

[Lexicus]

If, to get this deal, Flynn has already talked and spilled the beans on who directed him to chat with the Russians, then a pardon doesn't matter. We don't yet know how much Flynn has already said to get to this point. If he has told Mueller that Trump told him to work with the Russians, a pardon doesn't help Trump.

But can charges be brought on the basis of such information alone?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The "we will use state laws to circumvent a pardon" threat doesn't actually go very far. It may carry a little weight with Flynn, but the chances of a "this case is totally unprecedented since no state has ever brought this kind of charge in an area that is clearly federal jurisdiction: this is just persecution" defense carrying the day are very good.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If, to get this deal, Flynn has already talked and spilled the beans on who directed him to chat with the Russians, then a pardon doesn't matter. We don't yet know how much Flynn has already said to get to this point. If he has told Mueller that Trump told him to work with the Russians, a pardon doesn't help Trump.

Recanted testimony, given under duress. Carries no weight.

 

[Cheetah]

EDIT: To clarify...Flynn is copping to lying to the FBI, and apparently all investigation into his clearly criminal financial dealings with Turkey is being stopped. The Turkey dealings are where his son shares his vulnerability.

What? No. We need whatever crimes Erdog is part of to come to light as well!