For some reason the first time I saw Alexander with Aggressive I was confused...

hey does anyone know about his proclamations of being a "god"? I faintly recall that Alexander, in one of his more crazy years, sent a bunch of letters to Greece stating he was a god and everyone should worship him...
 
King Jason said:
I can almost gaurantee that the Greek empire would have encompassed the scope of what the Roman empire became, and the great city of the world (Rome) would instead be Alexandria, in Egypt.

Unlikely. Alexanders army was on it's last legs, and his troops wanted to simply go home. The Indians were never going to be walked over quite so easily as the Persians either.

For all that he was a truly great general, possibly the greatest ever alongside Napoleon.
 
Danghis Khan said:
Yeah, and what about Napoleon, he was Corsican. :p
Irrelevant. Corsica was (and still is) a part of France, Macedonia wasn't (and still isn't) a part of Greece but an independant kingdom.
 
King Jason said:
.Unlikely. Alexanders army was on it's last legs, and his troops wanted to simply go home. The Indians were never going to be walked over quite so easily as the Persians either.

He was only 33 when he died. It's quite likely that, had he lived, he would have gone on to raise other armies and further his conquests. It's also very possible that had he had a clearly determine succession (rather than one that devolved to his generals), the empire would have continued to exist in a singular fashion and thus prevented the rise of Rome as a significant power in the Mediterrenean, even if he hadn't gone on to conquer anyone else.

For all that he was a truly great general, possibly the greatest ever alongside Napoleon.

And Ghengis Kahn.
 
cyrusIII85 said:
hey does anyone know about his proclamations of being a "god"? I faintly recall that Alexander, in one of his more crazy years, sent a bunch of letters to Greece stating he was a god and everyone should worship him...

I've never read on anything about this, So I'd say it's false.
 
He was welcomed in Egypt as the incarnation of Amon-Ra, and his mother claimed he was the son of Apollo (with at least some evidence that he believed it personally).
 
read a book in me youth that stated some military historians think that his army could have beaten early gunpowder armies- so well was it honed

He never lost a battle- which i assume few have achieved. (anyone know any generals with a undefeatred record? McArther?)
Maybe he faced lame enemies.

Chess players have an old tradition -as do many nations i suspect-of talking about how great the enemy was- (Rome- Hannible) - and they are referring to those that they kicked the crap out of. (Fischer said something about how great Spassky was....)
 
ShaLouZa said:
Irrelevant. Corsica was (and still is) a part of France, Macedonia wasn't (and still isn't) a part of Greece but an independant kingdom.

Actually it's very relevant. Corsica was only added to France a few decades before the French Revolution. Napoleon was as French as Alexander was Greek; only the Macedonians conquered Greece, whereas the French conquered Corsica.
 
Uh, I do belive that MacArthur lost in the Philipines (1942).
 
troytheface said:
read a book in me youth that stated some military historians think that his army could have beaten early gunpowder armies- so well was it honed

He never lost a battle- which i assume few have achieved. (anyone know any generals with a undefeatred record? McArther?)
Maybe he faced lame enemies.

Chess players have an old tradition -as do many nations i suspect-of talking about how great the enemy was- (Rome- Hannible) - and they are referring to those that they kicked the crap out of. (Fischer said something about how great Spassky was....)
Hmm...I don't think Julius Caesar ever lost a fight (other than the one on the floor of the Senate ;) ), but I'm not familiar enough with all his campaigns to say for certain. I can't think of any that Patton lost, either.


As for "lame enemies"...yes and no.

See, nothing beats a Phalanx head-to-head. Ever. The thing about the Persians though was that they were VERY big and VERY rich, which meant they could throw so many soldiers at the Phalanx that in all but the tightest of confines (read: Thermopylae), sooner or later somebody was going to get around the edges to start butchering Greeks from the side. This is why AFAIK the Greeks never actually beat the Persians on land the second time they invaded.

There was no way in hell that the Persians were going to beat the Phalanx head-to-head, so the Persians' job was to use their numerical advantage - reportedly 3:1 at Issus and 5:1 at Guagamela - to get around the flanks and start chopping up Alexander's army with nigh-impunity. Alexander's job was to use his badly outnumbered Cavalry to prevent this from happening.

Despite the horrid numerical odds, Alexander not only kept the Persians from simply zerging his army to death, but managed to do a LOT of damage to the Persians' main body with his Cavalry. The Battle of Guagamela ended in a reported 50:1 kill ratio in Alexander's favor, and the Battle of Issus was even more lopsided, with a reported 200:1 kill rate. Pretty impressive if you ask me ;)
 
Danghis Khan said:
Actually it's very relevant. Corsica was only added to France a few decades before the French Revolution. Napoleon was as French as Alexander was Greek; only the Macedonians conquered Greece, whereas the French conquered Corsica.
Macedonia was and still is independant, Corsica hasn't never been in all his history. Before Gênes gave it to France, it was a genovese province. And before that it was Roman I think. It's like comparing Canada and Idaho.

My point wasn't that Napoleon was a 100% natural French : I said that Alexander was not Greek. Macedonia was influenced by Greek (mostly) and Persian culture, but was none of both.
 
cyrusIII85 said:
hey does anyone know about his proclamations of being a "god"? I faintly recall that Alexander, in one of his more crazy years, sent a bunch of letters to Greece stating he was a god and everyone should worship him...
"During this time, Alexander adopted some elements of Persian dress and customs at his court, notably the custom of proskynesis, a symbolic kissing of the hand that Persians paid to their social superiors, but a practice of which the Greeks disapproved. The Greeks regarded the gesture as the preserve of deities and believed that Alexander meant to deify himself by requiring it. This cost him much in the sympathies of many of his countrymen."

Likely where you got the impression from. We learned about him to some degree in a past history course :)

He strongly attempted to merge Persian and Greek culture, in order to form a unified empire.
 
Macedonia was Greek, but they were the Greeks everyone else only half-heartedly accepted as Greek. They were the hicks of Greek society, living on the Northern border, slow to accept Greek traditions and frolicking with barbarians and the like, but they were still Greek. It was actually this semi-seclusion from Greece proper that enabled them to become so powerful - they weren't as embroiled in power politics wars, they were able to do a lot of military experimentation without their citizens feeling like they were going against "what it meant to fight like a Greek," but they still had the resources available to a Greek city-state, and nobody took them seriously enough to see their huge conquest coming and nip it in the bud. All things considered, a good showing from a previously "backwards" state. I think Alexander makes perfect sense as a Greek leader, he's the first leader to unify all of Greece and he left behind a military and philosophical legacy all throughout the Classical world.
 
ShaLouZa said:
Macedonia was and still is independant, Corsica hasn't never been in all his history. Before Gênes gave it to France, it was a genovese province. And before that it was Roman I think. It's like comparing Canada and Idaho.

My point wasn't that Napoleon was a 100% natural French : I said that Alexander was not Greek. Macedonia was influenced by Greek (mostly) and Persian culture, but was none of both.

The Macedonia of today is nothing like the Macedonia of the Classical age. They're not even really situated in the same place, and the racial background of those living in Modern Macedonia is primarily Bulgarian and Algerian, with little to no Greek blood present at all. Old Macedonia is now part of Greece, and the Greeks HATE the modern Macedonian state and consider it an insult towards their history and culture.
 
Hi there!

Alexander is perhaps the most controversial person I've ever read about. Some people love Alexander, as a cultured man who spread Greek philosophy across the world. Some people hate Alexander as a despot who had a bad temper, got very roudy when drunk, and had a short term mentality (like Victor David Hansen)

Unlike just about anyone else in history, he was both unbelievably cruel and capricious at times, killing people for no reason -- yet he was also merciful and enlightened at others (like to Darius' wife and family). Others had those characteristics, like Caesar, but Alexander's actions seem to have the least ability to be easily placed in context.

He certainly was a conqueror. After the Indus campaign, he wanted to go into the heart of India when his troops rebelled and said 'no more'.


Alexander DID go for the god bit in Egypt. When he was in Persia, he adopted the absolutism of Eastern kings, which angered his Macedonian subjects (for which kings had limited powers.). Detractors (like Hansen) believe that he got more headstrong with success. Indeed, he started adopting Persian troops. Again, people debate if he was 'inclusive', trying to be equaninimous towards his new subjects, or if he was trying to create an alternative power base from the Macedonian army.

Whether you love Alexander, hate Alexander, etc, he was an unbelievable general. I would say more of my military history brethren would put him as the greatest ever (I don't incidentally -- I put Napoleon first. But Alexander is 'up there'.)

A lot of people are taught in the US that the Greeks were these artful, peace-loving guys and that the Romans were a brawny, unimaginative military people. These are poor and inaccurate stereotypes. The Greeks were very good at war. However, they were amateurs until the 4th century BC. They could be aggressive and very warlike. Ironically, the professional and militaristic Spartans rarely went for offensive wars, while their more enlightened neighbors were aggressive.

Their innovation was bronze weapons and the hoplite tactics. Alexander's hoplites were more professional (fifth century Greek phalanxes could include very old men, blind men, etc. After all, you can't see anything in the middle of a phalanx!) and had better equipment, using a 'professional' military. His phalanx held the center. His strike force was his heavy cavalry, not his phalanxes. He personally lead the cavalry. He also introduced light troops. He was a combined arms master.

I also don't think Rome would have had troubles. If you even took the 'Greek World' as a whole in the Diodachi period, it was fearsome -- but Alexander was beginning to face revolt right when he died. I personally doubt he could have kept his empire together, and his behavior was getting more out of hand. Also, remember he was a conqueror of Greece. In the complex world, he was oppsod by the Greek governments but supported by many Greeks who joined his army.

Of course, there is speculationt hat he was poisoned. Unlike the Romans, the Macedonain conquest had a poor governmental/succession system. It was really based on the personal power of Philip and Alexander, and didn't survive their deaths (both of which may have been from assassination, or from hard living!) After his death, the difference between 'Greek' and 'Macedonian' became less important.

There is big debate about the 'Macedonian phalanx vs. the Roman legion'. The Romans fared better in real life (Pydna, Magnesia, etc.), but this was past the glory days of the phalanx. The phalanx has more straight on power -- if they met face on, the phalanx wins. But the legion is more flexible. The Romans abandoned the phalanx system during the Samnite wars since it wasn't useful in the hilly terain nearby. (Incidentally, I hear Rome: Total War does a great job of simulating this).


Anyway, aggressive is a good trait for him, as is philosphical. A fascinating man.

Best wishes,

Breunor
 
the Greeks HATE the modern Macedonian state

Hey, that is not true. We don't HATE the modern Macedonian state (FYROM).
However, it is our belief (which is neither outrageous nor without reason) that the term "Macedonia" and its derivatives should not be defining of a people who had little to no relation to the ancient people of Macedonia. We aren't saying that "Macedonia" is a term exclusive for Greek use either. But it is also not their right to call themselves Macedonians, descendants of the ancient people of Macedonia, because they are not. To me, as a Greek Citizen, a term like 'Republic of Northern Macedonia' would sound a lot less insulting. They do live in a part of what used to be the ancient Kingdom of Macedonia after all...
 
There is big debate about the 'Macedonian phalanx vs. the Roman legion'. The Romans fared better in real life (Pydna, Magnesia, etc.), but this was past the glory days of the phalanx. The phalanx has more straight on power -- if they met face on, the phalanx wins. But the legion is more flexible. The Romans abandoned the phalanx system during the Samnite wars since it wasn't useful in the hilly terain nearby. (Incidentally, I hear Rome: Total War does a great job of simulating this).

It was past the glory days of the phalanx because the tactic had become outmoded by the time the legion was introduced. It was useful in its context because warfare was not sophisticated enough to over come it. The tactical monoeuverability of the legion and the changes in warfare since Alexander's time, however, had rendered it obselete. It's not as if the Romans, pragamatists that they were, would have a) adopted the legion or b) defeated Greece if the phalanx had still been effective.
 
I dont think the phalanx was outdated. Alexander used it effectively at Gaugemela. The long spears were just about the only thing that could stop chariots on flat ground and once it was moving forward the immortals could not stop it. It served as an anvil to hold the enemy while the Companion Cavalry were the hammer. The two elements together are what produced such spectacular victories which would not have been possible with out each other.
 
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