For you, what would be the most important technology in the game?

[VSarius]

I'd rate Democracy, Bio, and Communism about equally obviously with some flux depending on leader and start, Kremlin+Aztecs would be completely insane for example, Emancipation+Financial, heavy grains+Bio. You are probably right about Rifling though, it's like being a suped-up super-Inca, easily conquer as many AIs as you wish.

 

[noto2]

Bio would easily beat any of the other economic techs. Biology would give you super farms like 0-10 turns into the game. To make use of communism you'd need metal casting for workshops, which is a very expensive tech, and then you'd need machinery which is medieval. You're already 100 turns into the game before you use those techs.

Hmm, this could make for an interesting custom game. Up the difficulty by one level or play 'always war' or OCC, but start with a tech like biology. Hmm...

 

[VSarius]

Technically Communism would be useful as soon as you settle your first city, maintenance costs are no joke and the happy bottleneck certainly constrains Bio, yes it gives a tangible benefit as soon as you have a single farm up but it really kicks off once you have happy resources galore or HR.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Technically Communism would be useful as soon as you settle your first city, maintenance costs are no joke and the happy bottleneck certainly constrains Bio, yes it gives a tangible benefit as soon as you have a single farm up but it really kicks off once you have happy resources galore or HR.

You need to settle a 2nd city. Communism eliminates distance maintenance; it does not do anything to maintenance based on #cities (which is eventually capped, but IIRC is the larger component of maintenance if your 2nd/3rd cities are close to the capitol).

The reason I didn't rate it higher is what noto pointed out; workshops are basically forests unless you're in caste, which means you'd need, at minimum, CoL and MC before you'd be able to build a single improvement which the civic is truly benefitting. At machinery you have a GREAT improvement, but we're talking about a majority of the BCs where the only benefit is no distance maintenance. I don't see that beating +1 on every farm, even with a cap. Drama or monarchy are both easier to reach than the MC ---> machinery + CoL route, and the benefit from a bio farm is better even still until guilds at minimum.

It's still a great early tech, especially if you build kremlin, but I'm not sure it beats bio or even democracy (which can troll the rest of the world with emancipation and make cottages a seriously good deal all over the place).

One thing going in communism's favor is spy abuse though. If you take that or even democracy there is some strong incentive to spam out espionage because you're going to have a considerable lead over everyone in it for a long time.

 

[paulcarri]

Disclaimer (newbie here on his second game)

For me its bronze working so i can whip and chop for a flying start.

Bureaucracy was a huge boost for me, so civil service too.

 

[VSarius]

Valid points, if I remember the Intelligence Agency is one of the best economic buildings in terms of hammers:espionage. I actually didn't consider how strong an EE could be with early access to that.
Democracy is certainly hilarious, T-Hawk's write-up was a pretty solid showcase of how that works out. Pair it with a Financial Leader and things can get pretty ridiculous.

As for early Machinery, an interesting play would be to pick an Industrious leader (plenty of good ones around, Stalin for flavor would be pretty funny) and sling MC with Oracle, build a cheap Forge in another city, and run an Engineer. Machinery happens to be #1 priority so a guaranteed bulb. All things considered I'd say they're pretty close and to decide this, you'd need to play it out on a map. I guess I just prefer Communism since it gives so much, so many flexible paths over just 'You have more food'.

 

[learner gamer]

The most useful: BW for everything it provides

The most critical: Writing.

If you overexpand early without Writing (axe rush, even HA rush), you can get into position of no return. If you have Writing, you open trade routes (money) plus you can run scientists for researching Alpha, then Maths and Currency (voila! you are back to the living), or you can bulb Alpha and research Maths and Currency (voila!).

Agreed.

 

[rfcfanatic]

Currency is the saviour. I completely agree with that. But other than that, Assembly Line+Artillery are my favourites.

 

[CivNoobie]

I forgot to mention biology... it's the first tech I rush when I reach industrial age

 

[noto2]

You need to settle a 2nd city. Communism eliminates distance maintenance; it does not do anything to maintenance based on #cities (which is eventually capped, but IIRC is the larger component of maintenance if your 2nd/3rd cities are close to the capitol).

The reason I didn't rate it higher is what noto pointed out; workshops are basically forests unless you're in caste, which means you'd need, at minimum, CoL and MC before you'd be able to build a single improvement which the civic is truly benefitting. At machinery you have a GREAT improvement, but we're talking about a majority of the BCs where the only benefit is no distance maintenance. I don't see that beating +1 on every farm, even with a cap. Drama or monarchy are both easier to reach than the MC ---> machinery + CoL route, and the benefit from a bio farm is better even still until guilds at minimum.

It's still a great early tech, especially if you build kremlin, but I'm not sure it beats bio or even democracy (which can troll the rest of the world with emancipation and make cottages a seriously good deal all over the place).

One thing going in communism's favor is spy abuse though. If you take that or even democracy there is some strong incentive to spam out espionage because you're going to have a considerable lead over everyone in it for a long time.

ooooh, I completely forgot about espionage. Yes, that's right, either democracy or communism would open up the game's super spy buildings, giving you a MASSIVE espionage lead. That would basically allow you to have sight on every city on the map for the entire game, you'd be able to see where everyone was, what they're doing, what they're building, and you'd be able to steal a ridiculous number of techs too

 

[plastiqe]

If you were going to start with one tech, Artillery is better than Rifling. You'd be able to build Anti-Tank and Artillery from the start.

 

[Tall German Joe]

ooooh, I completely forgot about espionage. Yes, that's right, either democracy or communism would open up the game's super spy buildings, giving you a MASSIVE espionage lead. That would basically allow you to have sight on every city on the map for the entire game, you'd be able to see where everyone was, what they're doing, what they're building, and you'd be able to steal a ridiculous number of techs too

I think Constitution would be a better choice for this route, as you'd not only get what is effectively a free pyramids, but also jails, which are a lot easier to whip early-game than intelligence agencies.

 

[ben-jammin]

Early intelligence agency would be powerful, but of course you can't use those EP points until alpha. And 180 hammers is a huge investment in the early game. One could argue that the Great Wall is a better investment with the EP points from an inflitration mission by your eventual GSpy.

 

[Fippy]

If you were going to start with one tech, Artillery is better than Rifling. You'd be able to build Anti-Tank and Artillery from the start.

First build = Arty = one super happy Tmit $$$
CR3 Arty omg, even Shaka would hide in a church.

 

[ben-jammin]

If you were going to start with one tech, Artillery is better than Rifling. You'd be able to build Anti-Tank and Artillery from the start.

I think this is the line of thinking that defines which tech gives you the biggest advantage from turn 0.

You could also do Rifling for instant rifles, which wouldn't need any siege for 99% odds against classical age units.

You could also do Engineering for instant Trebuchets, which are of course considerably cheaper than artillery and would only require archers to accompany them.

Maybe the best would be Military Science for Grenadiers (a good balance of strength vs hammers...not easy to build 100+ hammer units in the early game) and a Military Academy with your first Great General (to help out significantly with the huge hammer cost).

 

[plastiqe]

Well in a theoretical game where everyone started with one tech of their choice, I still think Artillery is the winner. Heh, no need for city raider at that point I'd probably want drill and march.

I think the old thread about this was that you'd get the tech, but not any bonuses you get for being first to research the tech, so like no GS if you pick Physics.

Military Science might be the way to go for an Imperialistic civ, good point about the Military Academy.

 

[ben-jammin]

Bio would easily beat any of the other economic techs. Biology would give you super farms like 0-10 turns into the game. To make use of communism you'd need metal casting for workshops, which is a very expensive tech, and then you'd need machinery which is medieval. You're already 100 turns into the game before you use those techs.

Hmm, this could make for an interesting custom game. Up the difficulty by one level or play 'always war' or OCC, but start with a tech like biology. Hmm...

The extra food wouldn't be of any use because of the happy cap. You would only see the benefits after Hereditary Rule and a lot of units, which cost a lot of maintenance in themselves in the early game when you don't have many cities. Particularly if all that extra food can't be used to work commerce tiles.

 

[ben-jammin]

Well in a theoretical game where everyone started with one tech of their choice, I still think Artillery is the winner. Heh, no need for city raider at that point I'd probably want drill and march.

I think the old thread about this was that you'd get the tech, but not any bonuses you get for being first to research the tech, so like no GS if you pick Physics.

Military Science might be the way to go for an Imperialistic civ, good point about the Military Academy.

Also with rifling you would only need to go animal husbandry->HBR for cavalry to follow up however many riflemen you managed to produce. That would make quick work of any pangea.

 

[plastiqe]

Also with rifling you would only need to go animal husbandry->HBR for cavalry to follow up however many riflemen you managed to produce. That would make quick work of any pangea.

Well you'd need to go, AH --)> HBR --)> Military Tradition. But yeah you'd eventually get Cavalry. : P

 

[ben-jammin]

Well you'd need to go, AH --)> HBR --)> Military Tradition. But yeah you'd eventually get Cavalry. : P

Oh yeah, how could I forget you need MT. Facepalm