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[Knightfall]

As some of you might already know, I'm fairly new to CIV 4, and have been getting killed by the AI every game. Following the advice of some people on this board, I have decided to post my most recent game here in order to get advice as I progress. I am playing as Hannibal, Noble, Pangea, all settings normal except huts off. I've attached a save, and will post pictures shortly. Any and all advice is appreciated.

EDIT: On advice of Lymond, have restarted again. Leader, map, and difficulty still the same as before (Hannibal, Pangea, Noble). Huts and events off, all settings normal to the best of my knowledge. Save attached to OP is the newest one. I await guidance.

EDIT: WB save attached for those playing on a different version of the game.

 

[lymond]

Hey KF - I recommend rolling a new start. Coastal starts are actually not ideal for Pangaea and I would at least recommend rolling an inland start with at least one good food resource like corn or pigs.

hmmm...not sure why you posted this here..I will request a move over to S&T

Aslo, I recommend installing BUG and BULL mods which can be found here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/download-bug-and-bat-here.274636/

BUG and BULL work together and provide UI enhancements without changing gameplay. When installing BUG, ,choose the SP (custom assets) option. BUG will be installed in the game's custom asset folder which means you don't actually have to load the mod..and the saves are compatible with or without the mod. BULL is simply extracted and some files copied over..instructions are included. All very simple. (Note: Don't overwrite your vanilla DLL file but rather rename it so you can revert back to it if needed)

You can also find Blue Marble mod under the above link too. Simply a graphical enhancement mod. Installation does not conflict with other mods or no mods.

 

[Knightfall]

Hey KF - I recommend rolling a new start. Coastal starts are actually not ideal for Pangaea and I would at least recommend rolling an inland start with at least one good food resource like corn or pigs.

hmmm...not sure why you posted this here..I will request a move over to S&T

Aslo, I recommend installing BUG and BULL mods which can be found here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/download-bug-and-bat-here.274636/

BUG and BULL work together and provide UI enhancements without changing gameplay. When installing BUG, ,choose the SP (custom assets) option. BUG will be installed in the game's custom asset folder which means you don't actually have to load the mod..and the saves are compatible with or without the mod. BULL is simply extracted and some files copied over..instructions are included. All very simple. (Note: Don't overwrite your vanilla DLL file but rather rename it so you can revert back to it if needed)

You can also find Blue Marble mod under the above link too. Simply a graphical enhancement mod. Installation does not conflict with other mods or no mods.

If you think I should re-roll, I trust your judgement. I thought this would be a good start though, since I have both a food resource and a luxury resource, and I have access to coast with a financial leader who starts with fishing and who's UB replaces the Harbor.

 

[AcaMetis]

If you think I should re-roll, I trust your judgement. I thought this would be a good start though, since I have both a food resource and a luxury resource, and I have access to coast with a financial leader who starts with fishing and who's UB replaces the Harbor.

Wait, Financial with a UB Harbor...? Oh, Hannibal, not Hammurabi. My mistake . Well, for what it's worth, Hannibal should be fine to play as well. Unique HA, but nowhere near the gamebreakers that other early UUs can be.

As for the start, can't take a look at the save right now but generally speaking coastal starts on Pangaea can be deceptively nasty depending on how coast is generated, to the point where the map ends up being a very unusual playthrough. Obviously for learning the game that's less than ideal.

 

[lymond]

If you think I should re-roll, I trust your judgement. I thought this would be a good start though, since I have both a food resource and a luxury resource, and I have access to coast with a financial leader who starts with fishing and who's UB replaces the Harbor.

luxury resources...ha. Seems you came here from Civ V. Marble does not provide happiness but does help to speed up wonders. (the effect is global as opposed to just the city that has it)

Cothons are nice on certain maps but not on a map where you are likely to settle very few coastal cities anyway. The key here is to focus on early mechanics and practice opening strategies and micros. Coastal often have some unique things to do that can prove confusing and detracts from what we recommend you learn right now. Not a terrible start but i would roll inland for now.

 

[Knightfall]

Wait, Financial with a UB Harbor...? Oh, Hannibal, not Hammurabi. My mistake . Well, for what it's worth, Hannibal should be fine to play as well. Unique HA, but nowhere near the gamebreakers that other early UUs can be.

As for the start, can't take a look at the save right now but generally speaking coastal starts on Pangaea can be deceptively nasty depending on how coast is generated, to the point where the map ends up being a very unusual playthrough. Obviously for learning the game that's less than ideal.

luxury resources...ha. Seems you came here from Civ V. Marble does not provide happiness but does help to speed up wonders. (the effect is global as opposed to just the city that has it)

Cothons are nice on certain maps but not on a map where you are likely to settle very few coastal cities anyway. The key here is to focus on early mechanics and practice opening strategies and micros. Coastal often have some unique things to do that can prove confusing and detracts from what we recommend you learn right now. Not a terrible start but i would roll inland for now.

That makes sense. Re-rolling.

 

[dankok]

Move Settler 1SE. If nothing interesting revealed, settle in place. Carthage starts with Mining/Fishing. Research Agriculture first for Corn and start on a Worker.

 

[dankok]

I see no reason not to play this game.

 

[Knightfall]

Alright, let's try this again. Re-rolled an inland start adjacent to a lake. Corn, Wine, and Fur all within easy reach.

 

[Knightfall]

Alright, going to settle in place (fresh water, multiple food resources, hill for production and defense). My short-term plan is to scout the area with my Warrior while I build a Worker. Will prioritize Agriculture and Pottery techs, as well as Hunting so I can improve the multiple Fur resources. From there will hit Bronze Working so I can whip and chop, followed by Mysticism so I can build monuments (Hannibal is Charismatic, so they provide Happiness as well as Culture). Long-term goal is to have about 6-8 cities by 1000 BC, then go for HBR, Mathematics, and Iron Working to do some conquering.

 

[Knightfall]

Alright, reporting in at turn 15 (3400 BC). Researched Agriculture and Wheel, first Worker built. Scouted out the area, found the coast and three neighbors (Native Americans, Germans, Egyptians). Keeping an eye on the Natives and Egypt, as they both seem to be potentially dangerous in the early game. Planning to research Pottery next, then Bronze Working.Wondering what I should build next though. I assume I'm not ready to build a Settler yet, so my plan is to build a Warrior for extra protection in case some barbs roll up, and then either a Settler or a Granary after that. Save attached.

 

[lymond]

Hey KF..getting a little ahead of yourself there ..ha. Again, we generally like to analyze the start position with you before even settling your city. This is actually an important aspect of the game as you can possibly improve your start position.

edit: why do you add all these unusual settings. please don't do that. all you need was huts/events off. And locked modified assets (though used for HOF and GOTMs) creates a huge problem for forum games. You've disabled our ability to use the BUG mod. That is going to severely limit folks playing along with you.

well, I started writing a bunch of stuff on the start here and then noticed the settings were borked so lost interest for now:

Spoiler :

I will give some advice on that shortly and suggest you replay, but I will just note of few things on your current comments.

First, thinking far beyond worker techs at this stage is not important.

The key thing first is always teching what you need to improve your food resource(s), if you don't start with the needed tech. I this case Agriculture (which you did).

In most cases, your next priority is Bronze Working. Spotting copper is always good but that is actually the least of the reasons. BW opens Slavery - the most powerful mechanic in the game, and forest chopping which can greatly speed up your early game. There may be exceptions to this depending on the start, but generally Food>BW is the way to go. From there it depends..often to writing via Pot or AH..whatever is most suited to the land.

Note: IW is generally not something you will tech yourself especially on higher levels...but we will discuss that more later when the time comes.

NOW ..back to this start:

While settle in place (SIP) is usually not bad and would be recommend for those not with experience, experience players analyze the start first to see if they might improve the position of their starting cap. This involves analzying the area - including the fog - and then making a judicious decision on where to move the scout or warrior to offer better information on the immediate surroundings. Moving that unit first always before either settling or deciding to move the settler.

Here you know you have corn. Food is always the focal point on making a decision on where to settle. One thing you always know is that you are not going to move away from your food.

Next thing I look for is center tile bonuses. Tiles one can settle a city on that provides a bonus to the city center - whether food, production, commerce or sometimes, though rarely, a combination. For example, an unforested Plains Hill (PH) has a 2H yield (a forested PH loses the forest when settled so it is the same thing). If you settle on a plains hill you will get an additional hammer to the default 2F1H1C center tile. That is an immediate boost to production that can speed up early builds including your worker.

Another example is staring right at you at the start. Notice that wine 1S of your settler. It has 3C. It is showing 3C because your leader is FIN. If he was not FIN, you would see only two. Regardless, settling on that wine would give an extra 1C to the center tile for non-FIN and an extra 2C for FIN (like Hannibal).

 

[dankok]

Knightfall

Some players on this forum play on a very high level (i.e. Deity) and will give you lots of advice that is obviously useful but you don't need it to win Noble. Up to turn 15 you've played quite satisfactorily. Settling in place was good. Agri first to improve Corn was a good move. Food is essential. I'd go Bronze Working next to reveal Copper and enable chopping and slavery. Hunting should be a priority tech after that. The commerce from working a Fur Camp can help in teching and hooking up Fur also boosts your happy cap. With Charismatic which already helps city happiness, you can get size 8 or 9 cities quite early which can be a big boon. After the early techs to hook up resources, economic techs like Pottery for cottages (especially great with Financial) and Writing for libraries is in order. Considering it's an inland map, you can probably avoid Sailing until later.

After the first worker, go ahead and build a Warrior and then build a Settler. It should be done around the time you got Bronze Working and have revealed Copper. Try to settle your second city to claim Copper and preferably that city also has some type of food but it's not even essential. Early metal is important even worth settling a mediocre city to get it in order to protect from barbs (first animals but quickly become warriors and then archers) and also to protect yourself in case AI's get ideas or you want to Axerush them. Your neighbours are not particularly peaceful or warlike, sort of middle of the pack. No psychopaths like Shaka or Montezuma.

Definitely play a few turns at a time and not too fast because early game mistakes snowball easily... The first 50 turns is crucially important.

 

[Fippy]

While tech choices are certainly relaxed on Noble, i think it's good if you start considering them carefully already.
They are one of the most important decisions thruout the games.

Here you have so much to do for your workers, Furs could be improved, floodplains farmed cos with a high happy cap you will want more than corn only (and furs are also food negative tiles), and Bronze Working hugely helps with covering this cities weakness: production. Plenty trees around for chopping, 20 each which is huge here early.
Especially for getting more workers.

So Wheel does not much for you right now, only delaying a crucial tech.

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Knightfall. No one expects you to play at deity levels. The idea is to give you ideas on the basics. Getting the early turns right is important.

Getting insight from players like Lymond is always good. He knows the game well.

Settling 1SE on flood plains is not a good idea as you immediately lose 1 food from the tile. Flood plains are great for cottages.

Settling on wine here was best play. More green land further south. A second city can help with the fur. Plus over 15 turns you have gained 30 commerce compared to settling in place.

Fippy advice on techs is good. You should base techs on land around capital. Which is why scouting is so important.

Warrior should of perhap scouted land round your capital. You can't make great tech or settling decision if your scouting is poor.

 

[lymond]

I see no reason not to play this game.

Actually, after conferring with the committee (), I have come to realize that I mistakenly opened up some other dude's save initially. The first save was actually quite good, although still has the same wonky settings. My apologies though to KF for that mistake.

I do recommend that KF roll a new start with just huts/events off..nothing else really...choose religions is fine though. You can just post the new save in the OP with an update.

 

[Knightfall]

Actually, after conferring with the committee (), I have come to realize that I mistakenly opened up some other dude's save initially. The first save was actually quite good, although still has the same wonky settings. My apologies though to KF for that mistake.

I do recommend that KF roll a new start with just huts/events off..nothing else really...choose religions is fine though. You can just post the new save in the OP with an update.

OK, rolled new game as recommended; check OP for save and details. I think I've gotten a good start point; Corn, Cattle, and Stone all within easy reach. Do you guys think it might be worth it to try to go for Stonehenge after I've developed and expanded a bit? I figure this would make sense because I have easy access to Stone, meaning I can build it twice as fast, and because Hannibal is Charismatic, meaning I get extra bonuses from Monuments.

 

[lymond]

Well, the settings are okay. However, please roll a start with at least 1 strong food resource. Dry rice is rather weak. It is not a terrible start by any means, but for learning purposes I'd like to see you start with good food.

Note that once you roll a map, you can use the regenerate map button or hot key (alt-G I think) to create a new map.

Did you get the BUG mod installed ok?

 

[Knightfall]

Well, the settings are okay. However, please roll a start with at least 1 strong food resource. Dry rice is rather weak. It is not a terrible start by any means, but for learning purposes I'd like to see you start with good food.

Note that once you roll a map, you can use the regenerate map button or hot key (alt-G I think) to create a new map.

Did you get the BUG mod installed ok?

Thanks, did not know that. Re-rolled again (new save in OP). Have What and Corn, so I think I should be good now. As far as the BUG mod is, concerned, I'd prefer not to use it right now if at all possible. I appreciate that you think it would be helpful, but I honestly think it looks kind of ugly, and I'm playing on a laptop with a small hard drive and only integrated graphics, so I don't want to add any additional processing load. BTW I genuinely appreciate you patience and willingness to help, especially since most of the holdups have been me not understanding what different options do or what constitutes a good start.

 

[lymond]

Yep, this start looks very good. Hmm..not sure what you mean by ugly. BUG is not a graphical mod. It just improves the UI and information is easier to access. BUG should not add too much to processing needs and just a few megs of memory. IV is an old game and should work fine on more recent machines even with integrated graphics. IV has a known memory leak issue that even the best machines encounter but BUG isn't going to impact that. Anyway, it is your choice of course, but BUG is highly recommended.

Anyhoo, I was starting a spiel on analyzing your start in an earlier post, so some of that applies. What does not apply in this case is obvious tiles to possibly settle for a bonus to center tile. I don't see that here. But you do have two good food resources, so you are not going to move away from them.

You have what looks to be quite a few river grass tiles, so this city should make decent Bureau cap (cottages and Bureaucracy civic), and a good bit of forest for chopping. So here, we will still move the warrior first, but there is nothing really that stands out that makes the decision where to move him important other than just a better view. I can tell in the fog that you are surrounded by more forests in the 2nd layer, so likely no more resources in BFC (Big Fat Cross) from settling in place.

I see some open tiles to the SW so I'm inclined to move the warrior 1SW on the hill just to get a good view. If nothing notable presents itself, then I would just SIP which is probably what you would do regardless in this case.

Build worker first, of course, and tech AG. Likely BW next.

Warrior should move in apprx. a 5 to 10 tile radius around our cap borders to scout resources and new city spots..not farther than that ..and then spawnbust the next city spot.

Couple of notes:

1) Spawnbusting means standing a unit outside your borders to limit/eliminate barb spawn. A unit will spawnbust a 5X5 tile area from the tile he stands on. No barbs can spawn in this area. Very helpful trick. You do not need units in your cities very early..they should be out spawnbusting

2) Another little trick is deselecting your tech for the first 5 turn of the game. So select a tech..doesn't matter..and deselect...end turn. The game stores beakers for the first 5 turns. On the fifth turn select agriculture. Next turn the stored beakers and that turn's beakers apply. What this does is allow you to meet AIs during the first 5 turns. If the AI knows that tech ..say AG..you get a small bonus to the tech. (just make sure you select the tech you want on Turn 5 ..you don't lose the stored beakers but the game randomly applies them to a tech)

Play a turnset until the worker pops.

Lastly, just for perspective as you start this shadow game, I want to make clear that early turns are so important in the game. Every thing counts so you want to make good decisions. That is what we are trying to do for you here...get you to think about these things and not make wasteful choices.