Freedom for Catalonia?

[luiz]

Anyone noticed that when the question is whether say Scotland or Catalonia should be free we get responses like "Let the people decide. I'm not Catalonian." with a genuine concern for self determination. But when the same question comes up for California, we get militant responses from Americans talking about the "next civil war" (and i'm the crazy one ).

But do the majority people of California want independence?

 

[Verbose]

I voted Other, but then I think cobbling together a European Union would actually be interesting. You can have all kinds of self-governing regions for Catalans, Scots, Welsh, Bretons, Basques, Mienkielän, Jämtar, Sorbs, Sami etc., etc. (So far the EU is highly "pataphysical". "Pataphysics = the science of imaginary solutions" according to dr Faustroll, invented by writer Alfred Jarry.)

 

[Duddha]

But do the majority people of California want independence?

If you took a poll today the anwser would probably be no, but that doesn't mean it can't be a possibility, it is the same for Scotland, Catalonia, and California. Another thing to mention is that the question of independance is one that has never been ask or generally discussed in Cali, different from Scotland or Catalonia, and I don't know what the result would be if it was asked.

 

[Archer 007]

I doubt it, as it would only hurt California.

 

[MrPresident]

Let the people decide my ass. Why should 51% of the people decide my nationality?

 

[Duddha]

Let the people decide my ass. Why should 51% of the people decide my nationality?

Why should you decide the nationality of 51% percent of the people?

 

[Narz]

I think they should get a new flag.

 

[luiz]

If you took a poll today the anwser would probably be no, but that doesn't mean it can't be a possibility, it is the same for Scotland, Catalonia, and California. Another thing to mention is that the question of independance is one that has never been ask or generally discussed in Cali, different from Scotland or Catalonia, and I don't know what the result would be if it was asked.

I'm no californian and obviously I'm not very familiar with the situation, but if the subject is not very discussed then probably most people don't want independence.
This subject is very discussed in Scotland or the Pays Basque because many there want independence.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

Seems a little childish to think a nation should be punished for electing leaders of their own choice. Also, and maybe some of our Spanish members can conferm this, the party that was in power wasnt all that popular, and was orginally elected due to a corruption scandal amongst the Socialists.

Spain is free to elect whoever it wants, but I would also argue the United States should likewise be free to attempt to punish Spain for making an Anti-American decision.

Of course, this is a purely hypothetical situation, so let's not get too off-topic.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Catalonian independence would hurt Spain, because it is so rich. Catalonia would not be leaching off the EU.

 

[Zardnaar]

Questions of independence are always tricky. I don't know enough about this issue to comment but I do know theres something like 5 distinct groups in Spain.

 

[MrPresident]

Why should you decide the nationality of 51% percent of the people?

They are choosing to change my nationality without consent. I am not choosing to change theirs.

 

[Edelbroy]

Not only Andorra ... There should be a referendum in València and the Balearic Islands ("Ses Illes", in catalan), and if it could be in Northern Catalonia (now in France, "la Catalunya Nord" in catalan, "Pyrénées-Orientales" in french) and Alghero in Sardinia province (now in Italy, "Sardenya i l'Alguer" in catalan), also in a small part of Murcia, el Carxe... But the most important is "Franja de Ponent" (literally strip west) in Aragon from the construction of autonomy, which in these regions makes the Catalan language is not official, although it lies with higher porcenatje Catalan speakers (in most municipalities is 100%) and yet can not learn their language in school, or use it to communicate with public officials, so the return of Franja to Catalonia is very important to that the rights of Catalan citizens of this region are respected and preserved their language.

 

[ComradeDavo]

They shouldn't be independent.

Though I haven't been to Spain I have been to Andorra, and they are functioning perfectly well at the moment as they are.

 

[Dachs]

What, people cared about Catalonia before gangleri started coming to OT?

Nice necro. I vote no "just because".

 

[Tani Coyote]

Being against pretty much all secession and nationalism in general... (I support strengthening my own country solely out of self-interest, not out of some nationalist stupidity... I do of course, endorse trying to spread the benefits to other countries, of course. I am not a nationalist, as I'm a cosmopolite, even if I don't mind warfare.)

No, I'm afraid. It takes a lot to get me to welcome secession, and I'm not aware of any real grievances... are Catalonians heavily taxed, their homes searched without warrants, or in general deprived of their basic human rights? (i.e. they are tortured and killed in large numbers?)

I don't mind more autonomy, however. I like the idea of numerous self-governing regions within a EU. The EU, I imagine, will be a federal republic(probably not the same as the US, but in general with a similar model, likely far more multi-party) in the future, and the idea of federalism allows for a strong national government, yet plenty of freedom at the local level. "Independence" by other means is what Catalonia will get, or at least that's what I want.

 

[Munch]

Catalonia is Spain. They are already an autonomous community, and are doing just fine; Zapatero is not a tyrannical leader, and Catalan culture is not repressed. They have nothing to complain about except perhaps how touristic their capital has become.

 

[Edelbroy]

Catalonia has more people and more territory that the Netherlands, their historical significance is much larger, has more production and more indutrial gross domestic product that the Netherlands, receives more tourists and although the port of Barcelona is smaller than that of Rotterdam, receives and send more goods and passengers. The Catalan Parliament is the governing body of Europe's oldest Constitutionalists (the eleventh century and twelfth century !!!), preserves the earliest texts of the laws feudal Europe, the Book of Trials (Liber iudiciorum (Llibre dels Judicis in catalan) or Forum iudicum)... So I continue endlessly, and my question is: Why Holland can be independent but not Catalonia?

Ironically enough people in a country like USA, which belonged to England and became independent, have the gall to say that other countries should not be independent to prevent political decentralization ... well really must be very ignorant to say that the European Union is a federal republic ... Europe has no constitution, then, is not a government ...

 

[Dachs]

their historical significance is much larger

 

[Mowque]

Woah, necro!