Frequently Asked Questions

[Nimbus]

In 0.22 Hyborem and Basium both spawn without player actions, although from the player side, by the time I research either, it's not worth the effort, as there isn't much room for them to expand, and generally they get "cultured" out of the game almost immediately.

I know Hyborem is supposed to be spawned without player action but in my last 6 games in .021 or in .022 where the human player did not bring Hyborem into the world the computer never did. All games played on Huge world on Normal speed. As Amurites Ashen Veil founded 247 Last Turn played was 421, As Grigori AVf-236 LTp- 460, As Doviello AVf- 255 LTp- 440, As Khazad AVf- 256 LTp 420, As Luchuirp AVf- 287 LTp- 500, As Bannor AVf- 257 LTp- 490. From when the Veiul was founded to when I quit the game there was plenty of both time and space for Hyborem to come into the world. The computer player never switches over to the Veil religion or brings him into the world.
As to the culture problem for Hyborem, how about either letting him start with a Great bard or letting the manes unit he gets have a +10 great culture modifier like a prophet.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I haven't had problems spawning either in a long time.

 

[iamjooish]

Neither have I, but I've noticed order and veil rely heavily on human intervention, where as human players that don't found any religions will usually surrender much of the map to Fellowship. Ljosalfar always breezes right through researching Way of the Forests like it wasn't there, and Khazad stagnates on it's path to founding Runes, probably because it can't build any farms without agriculture. Balseraphs tend to favor Overlords for some reason.

The remaining 5 religions seem to flounder under the weight of Fellowship because it always comes first, playing against the elves anyways. The trick is founding any of them yourself, sending out the missionaries, and asking everyone to convert via diplomacy. It helps to have the patriarch of whatever your friends are into atm, change religions, and ask everyone to team up, since you don't lose the patriarch of anything until the next turn. I got more than half of the map covered in coagulated, bloody farms that way, once.


BTW, you founded the Veil playing as grigori? o.O

 

[it-ogo]

Sorry, wrong topic. Removed.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

By the way, if you play a game with a classical era stat them AV is almost always the first religion founded (even though Leaves, Runes and OO have no prerequisites left to research and AV still requires Way of the Wicked). Hyborem will then usually spawn while much of the map is still empty.

 

[Nimbus]

BTW, you founded the Veil playing as grigori? o.O

no, in all of those games I never founded the AV, that is just when the computer founded it. I play on Prince Dif/Normal speed and the last two times I had played and founded the AV it changed me to Normal Dif/Epic Speed. So I stopped going for it. But now that I don't go for it at all I have not seen Hyborem come into a game.

 

[Gabriel21]

I know Hyborem is supposed to be spawned without player action but in my last 6 games in .021 or in .022 where the human player did not bring Hyborem into the world the computer never did.

I realized quite often in 0.21 that the AI summons Hyborem itself, Basium as well.

 

[CMHistory]

I've played an Amurites game, founded the Veil, Summoned Hyborem in and helped him stay current with the other civs in the game with a Defensive Pact...but when I go to offer him a Permanent Alliance like the AI Bannor has with Basium, he says I've "grown too powerful" for him.

What is the cut off for "too powerful", how is that determined?

Is there a workaround to turn the option back on/force the alliance, either in-game or with some tool work?

Thanks for all of your work on this mod, guys...it has really redeemed Civ4 for me...

 

[Grey Fox]

Maybe give him some cities and units, even out the power.

 

[CMHistory]

Is that how the equation is figured? Comparitively between my cities + units and his cities + units?

Would it be possible to go into the Worldbuilder then and beef up his cities and give him some units to effect that change? Does someone on this forum have the equation that figures into his decision to refuse the option, to make it easier to determine just how many more cities/units/buildings he might need to bump me back into "alliance-worthy" status again?

What's the justification for that call, anyway? Wouldn't it make sense for a less powerful society to ally itself with a much more powerful one, given the permanent nature of said alliance? It's not like I could ever turn it off again...

Thanks for the suggestions and assistance, Grey Fox...they are greatly appreciated.

 

[Grey Fox]

Dunno, it might be a score comparison too.

 

[Gabriel21]

The remaining 5 religions seem to flounder under the weight of Fellowship because it always comes first, playing against the elves anyways.

I quite often found as very first religion RoK.
[/QUOTE] The trick is founding any of them yourself, sending out the missionaries, and asking everyone to convert via diplomacy. [/QUOTE]
Do you have open borders? Do you recommend this?

 

[Gabriel21]

FfH .22: Is there a possibility to change the place of the new mana counters at the right side? They give indeed a good overview, but they block sometimes the mouse pointer to click the underlying icons of new buildings, units etc.
For me, the place under the small filter icons below seems to be better.

 

[Gabriel21]

In 0.22 Hyborem and Basium both spawn without player actions, although from the player side, by the time I research either, it's not worth the effort, as there isn't much room for them to expand, and generally they get "cultured" out of the game almost immediately.

May I put your attention to a recent disussion in the - unfortunately wrong - bug thread where Sarisin, Grey Fox and me discuss pros and cons about them? Believe me, there are some advantages esp. with Basium as ally.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

What's the justification for that call, anyway? Wouldn't it make sense for a less powerful society to ally itself with a much more powerful one, given the permanent nature of said alliance? It's not like I could ever turn it off again...

It probably makes sense from a flavor perspective, as the nation wouldn't want to have their culture and identity subsumed by a much more powerful one.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

but when I go to offer him a Permanent Alliance like the AI Bannor has with Basium, he says I've "grown too powerful" for him.

Any chance you already had a permanent alliance with another civ? You are only allowed one (unchanged vanilla rule).

 

[snarko]

What is the cut off for "too powerful", how is that determined?

If your power plus their power is greater than that of everyone else combined they will not join you. If you are more powerful they say "you've grown too powerful for us". If they are more powerful they say "we're doing fine on our own" or something like that. Donating things to them will only make things worse, instead donate things to other civs. Also this check is made before the check if you've had a shared war/defensive pact long enough so time your donating well. (This order should be reversed imo.)

Any chance you already had a permanent alliance with another civ? You are only allowed one (unchanged vanilla rule).

If you already have a permanent alliance with another civ the option won't even show up.

 

[CMHistory]

Wow, thanks guys. So basically the only thing to be done in the current game is to either artifically pad-out the competition (gifting units, cities, tech, etc) until Hyborem thinks we don't hideously overmatch the others (You know how he LOVES to play fair like that...), or restart and try to catch him earlier, if possible.

How many turns do you have to share a war/defensive pact before that denial goes away?

I still wonder if there is a debug/worldbuilder/game edit that can be performed to tweak the settings on the Permanent Alliance filters....anyone have any ideas on that end?

Thanks again for all of your help and suggestions!

 

[snarko]

Almost everything about permanent alliances is in the SDK.

You need a shared war counter + defensive pact counter of 40 or more. They go up by one per turn if they apply. Defensive pact counter will go down by one every turn you're not in one until it's back to 0. Shared war is reset to 0 if you go to war with that civ but do not go down even if you don't share a war anymore.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Almost everything about permanent alliances is in the SDK.

You need a shared war counter + defensive pact counter of 40 or more. They go up by one per turn if they apply. Defensive pact counter will go down by one every turn you're not in one until it's back to 0. Shared war is reset to 0 if you go to war with that civ but do not go down even if you don't share a war anymore.

Regardless of game speed?