Friend, I have a serious matter to discuss...

[Mutineer]

Not true. I keep track of what promises I've made, and who I've backstabbed. The times I've gotten the "serious matter" message haven't been related to that.

It's possible I had another diplo minus, such as becoming friends with a City-State or finishing a Wonder that they wanted, but you can't promise not to do those things.

No, it is always something that you have control over, One other think you declare friendship with enemy of this nation why have friendship with them, or declare war on there friend or something similar.

 

[happyturtle]

No, you're wrong about this. I have gotten this without having done any of the things you're mentioning.

 

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I've seen it happen once before. The celts where pretty universally hated. I had maintained cordial relations with them, but I guess they didn't like me being all BFF with the dutch. I was given the ultimatum to denounce the dutch. I refused and got a DoW for my troubles.

 

[LoneRebel]

As others have noted, this has not yet happened to me in over 400 hours of play. I wonder if the reason is mere chance or something different in playstyles.

Anyway, the mechanic seems pretty unpleasant from what I'm hearing of it now. A friend asking you to denounce someone and then declaring war on you if you don't? If that happens to me, I'll probably say no just to have him declare war so I can put him in his place.

Especially considering that apparently, they sometimes often ask you to denounce your friend, yet when you comply you still get the "backstab" red modifier with them? What in the world? It's like a trap for the player. It's similar to that other ridiculous situation, where AIs will sometimes ask you to declare war on a friend, yet when you say yes, you still get the red backstab modifier with the civ who asked you to do it in the first place.

 

[Mutineer]

As others have noted, this has not yet happened to me in over 400 hours of play. I wonder if the reason is mere chance or something different in playstyles.

Anyway, the mechanic seems pretty unpleasant from what I'm hearing of it now. A friend asking you to denounce someone and then declaring war on you if you don't? If that happens to me, I'll probably say no just to have him declare war so I can put him in his place.

Especially considering that apparently, they sometimes often ask you to denounce your friend, yet when you comply you still get the "backstab" red modifier with them? What in the world? It's like a trap for the player. It's similar to that other ridiculous situation, where AIs will sometimes ask you to declare war on a friend, yet when you say yes, you still get the red backstab modifier with the civ who asked you to do it in the first place.

It happened to me many times and every time it was after unfriendly action from me. Basically again it is last dich demand, usually there bad consequences what ever you do.

 

[happyturtle]

My playstyle is to play friendly in early game, choosing a few Civs to make nice with and hopefully get a DoF circle-jerk going. I'll keep that up until Industrial at least, at which point someone will break the alliance, and then everyone still in it will turn and chain-denounce... rinse and repeat until everyone hates each other.

 

[phillipwyllie]

I think the triggers are when you've somehow befriended two mortal enemies...

I think this is the trigger, but they must be mortal enemies and not that they just don't like each other. You're not meant to be befriend 2 mortal enemies as when the first DOF comes in the second civ is programmed not to like you denying any prospect of a DOF in the near future. In saying that I have seen the "second" civ ask for a DOF, which I suspect is a ploy to split a happy relationship.

In G&K this happened to me all the time, now as probably because I understand the diplomacy system better I think I've only ever been asked twice in BNW.

 

[beetle]

Not as often as with this situation, but turning down a DOW request can also mean that your are a target. I guess that is old news?

Especially considering that apparently, they ask you to denounce your friend, yet when you comply you still get the "backstab" red modifier with them? What in the world? It's like a trap for the player. It's similar to that other ridiculous situation, where AIs will sometimes ask you to declare war on a friend, yet when you say yes, you still get the red backstab modifier with the civ who asked you to do it in the first place.

Getting the red backstab modifier with the civ who asked you to do it in the first place is broken. I wish there was a way to check the diplomacy screen before saying yes/no. I often cannot remember if a DOF or RA is active. I agree that it seems to mostly be about setting a trap for the player, more so than harming the 3rd civ.

 

[LoneRebel]

Getting the red backstab modifier with the civ who asked you to do it in the first place is broken. I wish there was a way to check the diplomacy screen before saying yes/no. I often cannot remember if a DOF or RA is active. I agree that it seems to mostly be about setting a trap for the player, more so than harming the 3rd civ.

Well said.

 

[shaglio]

I wish there was a way to check the diplomacy screen before saying yes/no. I often cannot remember if a DOF or RA is active. I agree that it seems to mostly be about setting a trap for the player, more so than harming the 3rd civ.

There is . . . but it requires a mod which will prevent you from earning achievements. InfoAddict has the old-school Diplomacy web/wheel from previous civs, and allows you to access it from the Diplo screen.

 

[Feurisson]

Not as often as with this situation, but turning down a DOW request can also mean that your are a target. I guess that is old news?



Getting the red backstab modifier with the civ who asked you to do it in the first place is broken. I wish there was a way to check the diplomacy screen before saying yes/no. I often cannot remember if a DOF or RA is active. I agree that it seems to mostly be about setting a trap for the player, more so than harming the 3rd civ.

Sometimes hovering over their status (hostile/friendly/...) shows you the different modifiers. Not sure if that always works, though.

 

[happyturtle]

I keep waiting for it to happen in my current game. I spawned right next to Shaka. Half the world has denounced him, and if there's a hidden diplo modifier somewhere that tells the other AIs that I'm gifting Shaka luxuries and paying him to go to war with anyone who isn't me. This would seem to be a genuine provocation for someone to insist I denounce him, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[eldiablonoche]

I always assumed it was just ham-fisted programming ensuring you don't run a peaceful game without paying for a massive army...

 

[LoneRebel]

Sometimes hovering over their status (hostile/friendly/...) shows you the different modifiers. Not sure if that always works, though.

I think he meant he'd like to be able to see whether he has a DoF with the guy he's being asked to denounce.

 

[Feurisson]

I always assumed it was just ham-fisted programming ensuring you don't run a peaceful game without paying for a massive army...

I've often done that, only having a few pikemen and little else except for a few ships... and never had that happen.

 

[beetle]

I think he meant he'd like to be able to see whether he has a DoF with the guy he's being asked to denounce.

Yes, exactly. I didn’t understand Feurisson reply to me, so thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Feurisson]

Yes, exactly. I didn’t understand Feurisson reply to me, so thanks for clearing that up.

Sorry for the confusion then, I thought you were referring to diplomacy modifiers with the civilization currently talking to you.

 

[NASAROG]

I'll probably catch heat for this, but this is my opinion.

Diplomacy is garbage in this game as is the warmonger penalty. Way too easy to game the system.

 

[beetle]

Sorry for the confusion then, I thought you were referring to diplomacy modifiers with the civilization currently talking to you.

It’s a fair point. It seems to me that the denouncement requests (DOW requests too) are actually more likely to come from Civs that you are not getting along with. I am okay with that, but not if it means breaking a DOF and taking diplo hits all around.

Diplomacy is garbage in this game as is the warmonger penalty. Way too easy to game the system.

Both are fair points. It may be easy enough to game the system, but that just makes it harder to enjoy the immersive role play aspect. Which is the problem that I think inspired this thread.

 

[bcaiko]

It’s a fair point. It seems to me that the denouncement requests (DOW requests too) are actually more likely to come from Civs that you are not getting along with. I am okay with that, but not if it means breaking a DOF and taking diplo hits all around.

In my experience, these requests tend to come from a friendly Civ who may otherwise have a reason to dislike you. It seems to me that when the AI is having trouble choosing between which allies it wants to keep, it proposes this request with the "denounce/war" result if you refuse.

It's similar to the rare "demand" screen where if you refuse the demand, the AI will instantly DoW you.