FTS-02 The Immortal One

mike p · Jul 23, 2006

Sounds pretty good. Glad to see we're building some more axemen. I started a OCC on Immortal today with Bismark and I'm still around in the industrial era, but whenever my military power started lagging the AI would try to take advantage.

If we can stay stronger than the weakest AI, we should be OK.

Conroe · Jul 23, 2006

Hey Team! I am stuck and need some input.

FDR is demanding that we cancel all deals with Alexander. Our only deal with him is an open borders treaty. Alex, of course, is the power leader; but FDR is our next door neighbor. Alex has recently declared war on Hatty.

Currently, Alex and Napoleon are the only civs pleased with us. Everyone else is cautious, with Izzy being furious over the war.

I'm thinking we need to cancel, but I thought I would solicit some advice before I do it. The power graph is attached.

mike p · Jul 23, 2006

Yeah, that's a real stinker. FDR isn't going to like us anyway, because our culture will be pushing back on his borders. So I'd lean towards staying loyal to Alex. Either way, we should probably build more axemen!

sooooo · Jul 24, 2006

Hrm, is Alex likely to attack us being so far away?

mike p · Jul 24, 2006

I've seen Alex send a stack at me across longer distances. Right now we're still in a war together, so we really ought to grab all the points we can with him.

On the other hand, if he is supreme in power, we probably can't ally with him and will need to take him down eventually.

In the OCC Immortal game I just played, I got a PA with Rome, who was the tech leader at the time, but Napoleon passed us out because team research is slowed. I didn't declare on France until too late, and he launched in 1956 while we still had about 4 turns to go to finish Fusion. So we might need to take out Alex eventually. It was a good learning experience though.

Conroe · Jul 24, 2006

Well, I spent my 10 turns concentrating on growing our city. We are up to 11 population, now. Civil Service is due in 13 turns. I used our GE to build the Great Library, and also trained a couple of Axemen and a Spearman.

Our next GP is in 8 turns, with a 60% probability for a Great Scientist (20% each for GA and GE).

I didn't do much trading, as the AI was keeping most of the good techs close to their vest. Although after this last turn, they have loosened up some and are willing to part with Currency and Construction. I don't like to do deals on the last turn, so I leave the negotiating to Mike P. I did, however, pick up Calendar and Monotheism after Code of Laws came in. I'm pretty sure that Literature is still a monopoly, but a couple of folks have Drama.

Saladin sent a Hindu Missionary our way. I think we should convert. It would help our relations with FDR. Alex is Confucian, but we have a +6 with him.

I had a tough time trying to decide whether to give in to FDR's demand to stop trading with Alex. In order for Alex to get to us, he would have to cross FDR's land. I felt we would probably be safe from any attack from Alex. But then, I noticed in the background that Saladin's borders were encroaching on Roosevelt's. It appeared to me that FDR was getting boxed in from all sides. I also felt that if FDR were to ever change religions, it could ease tensions enough between the two that Alex could get an OB agreement. Plus, I felt that FDR would get over our refusal quicker than Alex would if we cancelled our deals. So, I ended up declining.

The above map shows the borders at the time I refused Rosevelt's demand. Since then, he was able to get the free Great Artist from Music and did a culture bomb in Harappan. That cost us 4 border tiles.

Isabella wants a tech in exchange for peace. My guess is that she would accept 10 gold, except for the fact that neither of us has Currency. We are still at war with her. I've seen no hint of any troops.

Spoiler Turn Log :

mike p · Jul 24, 2006

It was an era of peace, prosperity, and good eats. Our health is a lot better. I managed to get us cows, rice, and fish. I made peace with Spain for 60 gold.

100 BC I take Conroe's advice and check the trade windows. I give Monotheism and Drama to Napoleon for Monarchy. Not a big deal, but it seemed harmless enough. Also make a gems for cows trade with Saladin. All of our happiness resources that won't also give us health are expendable.

75 BC I go back and forth on this one for a while but end up pulling the trigger. I ship FDR Code of Laws and Literature for Currency and 100 gold.

I must admit that my build orders were a mess at the start. I put one turn into an axeman, then decided to start a monestary for more beakers. The following turn I realized that the National Epic was available and started that instead.

50 BC FDR Adopts Vassalage. We'll start seeing longbows soon.

25 BC Nothing happens.

1 AD Anyone seen Jesus around?

25 AD Nothing

50 AD Hatty asks me to cancel our deals with Greece. I decline.

75 I talk to Alex, looking to make a trade. He has two rice available and we have nothing. "Could you spare this for a good friend?" He agrees.

We also spawn a Great Engineer. I was really torn as to what to do with him. We could have used him to discover Metal Casting,which no one has yet. Then build a forge and the colossus. Metal Casting is only 7 turns away at current research rates, and that will go down once we switch to Bureaucracy. It has a total cost of 730 beakers.

I figure the game will go at least 200 more turns, probably more like 250, but at 200 turns he'll give us 600 hammers and 1200 beakers, before any modifications for buildings or Civics. So I merged him. Don't be shy about telling me if you think there was a better option, but it seemed like the best and every turn we wait is time wasted.

If we take Metal Casting next, we'll probably still be the first ones to research it and even if we're second, we'll still be able to grab the Colossus, since we're industrious, have copper, and will be running Bureaucracy.

100 BC I trade Monotheism and Drama to Alex for Horseback Riding and 120 gold. There's probably a good joke in there about giving my Greek boyfriend Mono in exchange for bare back ride, but there might be kids reading this thread. (And I don't swing that way anyway!)

125 BC I need a cigarette.

150 BC I look longingly at Napoleon's fish. I wish we had something to trade for it. Checking out our current deals, I see we are giving him Corn for nothing. I renegotiate that to get Fish for Corn.

Our worker is almost done with a plantation on the sugar, which is basically trade bait. (though will provide health with grocers, if I'm not mistaken)

I'd suggest building a farm on east of town. Right now we're working 2 grassland mines for a total of 2 F 6H 1C. Working another grassland farm on the river and the copper instead will give 3F 6H 1C. At least we should pick up another food when the Corn gets irrigated from Civil Service, due next turn.

Religionwise, I think converting to Hinduism right now isn't necessary. Napoleon and Alex will probably drop from Pleased if we do. But if one of the Hindus ask that we convert, then maybe we should to avoid a hit with them. Organized Religion would help with buildings though.

sooooo · Jul 25, 2006

Merging the great engineer was definitely the correct plan. I think we should merge every specialist we get except the scientist we will (hopefully) get next who can build an academy.

BTW, Saladin has had Metal Casting since my last turnset (see my screenshot of the trading screen) and FDR has it now. Neither will trade it, and I expect they are building the colossus.

Here's my plan, what do you think:

Research philosophy next (10 turns). There's a chance to found Taoism but that's fairly useless. But it allows pacifism. I know Mike says we should stay with no state religion, but I think pacifism is really important for an OCC. When the national epic is also done, this should allow us to get many specialists.

Alex doesn't really care about relations, all he worries about when he declares war is how powerful you are. So I think we can go to Hinduism once philosophy comes in. He has no open borders with FDR (they hate each other) so all we have to worry about is a naval invasion, which the AI are notoriously bad at.

Also, I plan to trade civil service for feudalism and build some longbows.

I'll play tomorrow so there's plenty of time for discussion.

EDIT: And I think we need more farms. I don't like the cottage on the plains tile but I'll leave it alone for now. I'd like to farm over all of those forests and the free river tile. Forests provide 0.5 health, which equates to an extra 0.5 food. Farms provide an extra 1 food. More specialists!

Conroe · Jul 25, 2006

I normally merge all of my great people, as well, when playing OCC. However, taking a look around first to see what he can do first will never hurt. Pacifism sound like a good plan, as well. After that, I think we should head for Education and then take a look at Liberalism.

mike p · Jul 25, 2006

I think it might be worthwhile to take a Metal Casting detour. Even if we miss the Colossus, a forge will improve production.

sooooo · Jul 26, 2006

IHT: Nothing at all

T1 (175 AD) - Civic Service came in and we chose Metal Casting. Revolt to Bureaucracy.

T4 (250 AD) - Hatty made peace with Alexander

T5 (275 AD) - National Epic completes, start hindu monastery that was part-built

T7 (325 AD) - Metal Casting -> Philosophy. Hindu monastery completes, start axeman (also part-built)

T8 (350 AD) - Izzy demands Metal casting. I say no. Axe completes, start forge.

T9 (375 AD) - Taoism founded in Atlanta.

T10 (400 AD) - Begged 180 gold from Napoleon. Forge completes. I set Berlin to build a spear, but no hammers invested. We can build the colossus in 5 turns at max production, but even at that pace I doubt we'll get enough use out of it before it expires. We are getting 36 GPPPT and should have a scientist next turn (academy

).

mike p · Jul 26, 2006

True that we'll only be getting one commerce per turn from the Colussus. Building it will still provide GPPs and culture and will deny a big commerce bonus to the AI. If there's nothing else compelling for five turns, it might be worth it on those grounds alone.

Conroe · Jul 26, 2006

I also think Colussus would be good for denial purposes. It also looks like we could use an Aquaduct, as well. I think we ought to head towards Education after Philo comes in.

Roster Check:
Conroe- On Deck
Methos- [Skip between July 21-29]
mike p
sooooo- Just Played
adamlan- Up

sooooo · Jul 26, 2006

Well, I was thinking about getting machinery next for macemen. There is a trade available for Feudalism too, but I haven't made it yet. We still have a monopoly on CS.

Conroe · Jul 26, 2006

Well, unless we are planning on needing Macemen right away, we should be able to pick up Machinery in a trade for either Paper or Education. In the meantime, we pick up a University and have a head start on the free Liberalism tech.

adamlan · Jul 27, 2006

got it will play tonite i agree with heading to education next nd we do need an aqueduct to grow sum more i dont no bout the colossus tho i think we shud hav a vote wether 2 build it or not it might be gd

mike p · Jul 27, 2006

We're always going to be at or near the health cap, so we may as well get used to it. Aquaduct is also a good build, but it will still be there once the Colussus is done. Are the Hanging Gardens gone already?

I suggest trying to trade sugar for another health resource.

Conroe · Jul 29, 2006

@adamlan: Have you had a chance to play, yet?

Methos · Jul 30, 2006

Just letting you all know I'm back. Looks like the game is going great!

Conroe · Jul 30, 2006

It looks like Adamlan has gone AWOL on us and the game has stalled.

Ok, I've got it and will play now. Methos is on deck.

FTS-02 The Immortal One

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