FTS-02 The Immortal One

[mike p]

I finished Scientific Method, and Physics. The Great Scientist nearly replaces the free specialists from the Great Library, and now we can trade Sci Meth and Physics around.

There's a bunch of cavalry running around Greece. We probably should start moving towards Rifling. Physics came in on my last turn, so we can start whatever.

1300AD I decide to go for Physics, so Berlin is reconfigured for Science. I stop working the mines and hire some researchers.

1320 AD Roosevelt revolts to Free Speech, Free Market, Free Religion and Representation. Napoleon also has Constitution now.

1330 AD Alex offers us peace. All he asks for in return is Philosophy. What a jerk.

1360 AD Musketmen won't cut it with all the grenadiers and cavalry running around. I trade Astronomy and 380 gold to Saladin for Chemistry.

1400AD I get another XP for our Macemen. Someday we might even get the Herioc Epic started. We also get the Great Scientist from Physics. Should probably be merged, but I'll leave that up to you.

sooooo, you've got several trading options. My favorite might be Music and Divine Right to Napoleon for 130 gold and war with FDR. Not sure we want that relationship hit with our nearest neighbor though.

We might want to consider the Hermitage, especially since FDR went to Free Speech. I'd like to get those horses some day.

 

[Methos]

I'm curious, where did you send the three Hindu missionaries?

 

[mike p]

I wandered around Arabia for a little bit, but I really wasn't sure what to do with them.

 

[sooooo]

OK, I'll play this afternoon. Unless anyone objects, I'm going to research biology and farm over that new cottage.

 

[Methos]

I suggest holding off for a bit sooooo, as we need to figure out what type of victory we're heading for.

 

[sooooo]

Will do. The simplest victory would probably be a disruptive space race. A PA with Saladin looks impossible because he is by far the most powerful. I guess that leaves Hatty. I notice she is willing to go to war with Alexander again for liberalism, which will rack up more mutual struggle bonus. I'm pretty sure she'll agree to a PA when we get communism, if we want it. I also like mike's idea of bribing Napoleon to attack Roosevelt.

 

[Conroe]

If we are going for a spaceship victory, do we really need a PA? If that is the victory condition that we want, then I think we should beeline for Computers (Laboratory) and then head straight for the Internet. I can see the advantage of Biology first and I am fine if we want to go ahead and grab it.

If we really want to do a PA, though, would it be wise to bribe someone to attack Saladin? If we could get his troops levels whittled down to where he is not the power leader, we could do a PA with him.

We might want to consider the Hermitage, especially since FDR went to Free Speech. I'd like to get those horses some day.

I'd rather see us build some troops rather than the Hermitage. I think the best way to grab those horses is to raze a city. But, FDR has a ton of troops in those cities (at least as of my turns). I assume the troops are fighting cultural pressure. I think we should be building Macemen, promote them to City Raider, and then upgrade them to Grenadiers.

soz i been on my hols i didnt hav time 2 post dat i woz goin away im so sorry im leavin on tuesday again so u might want me to play a turnset wenever itz my go

Glad to have you back, adamlan! You say you are leaving again on Tuesday? When do you expect to be back?

 

[sooooo]

Well exactly. This is why I lobbied to leave PAs turned off. The other AIs will probably PA up and we'll have to fight monster pairs of civs. If we don't PA then we have to fight 2 armys at once. If we do PA we're stuck with a AI partner who will undoubtedly screw things up like try to build the space elevator in an iceball city. EDIT: I guess we could go for domination. That might be fun.

I'll play tomorrow and see what Mike and Methos say.

 

[mike p]

I'd think twice about farming over the cottage. Once we have Biology, we'll be at +7 food (though still at -4 health) with our current configuration. That's enough food to work every tile and have two left over for surplus.

A farm with biology will give enough food for one more specialist. Except that we are in unhealthiness so until that's fixed we effectively need three food for a new specialist.

A mature cottage will provide up to +8 commerce. That will also get modified by the bureacracy bonus to +12, which is twice as good as a merchant or scientist specialist. Since the cottage is west of Berlin, it's unlikely to get pillaged. So I think the cottage is better than a farm.

Our problem right now isn't food, it's unhealthiness. And that's only going to get worse when we add in factories and power plants. I think the cottage is a better move from the unhealthiness standpoint as well, because we can a better result from one pop point working the cottage than we will from two working the farm and hiring a specialist. The three farms we have already should be enough.

Also, I forgot to add that we have uranium to the south east, within our cultural borders. I sent the worker to start hooking it up.

I'd also advise against signing a PA right away. My understanding is that science costs get doubled, and we won't be bringing nearly as many beakers to the show as our partner, so the longer we wait to sign the PA, the less of a drag we'll be on their science - if that makes sense.

 

[Conroe]

Actually, after reading Mike's comments, I'm left wondering if 3 food is worth the turns to research Biology. I'm thinking maybe we should start towards Computers and just try and trade for Biology along the way.

A mature cottage will provide up to +8 commerce. That will also get modified by the bureacracy bonus to +12, which is twice as good as a merchant or scientist specialist.

A minor correction, I think. You have to give up Bureaucracy to get that last +2 commerce from a town (Free Speech, IIRC). I think a mature river cottage will give us +6 commerce or +9 after the Bureaucracy bonus. Still better than a single specialist, though; which I believe was the point you were making.

Also, I forgot to add that we have uranium to the south east, within our cultural borders.

What about oil? If somebody mentioned it in their report, then I missed it.

 

[adamlan]

i get bak on saturday

 

[sooooo]

OK. As I see it there are 2 options we can take in this game. 1st option is head towards Computers for the laboratory. 2nd option is head towards artillery and pound someone before they get infantry. But ... before we decide on either of those two options we need to get some techs to improve our production. Our health problems means we lack food to work our mines. I choose to research replacable parts because Saladin won't give a fair trade for it (his monopoly tech). I think that if I get RP then I can trade Sci Meth to Saladin for Rifling plus or minus some gold. Then we could get Artillery (we already have Physics) and go and beat him up. By the way, we have no oil, so Arti is our only chance of getting a decent attacking unit before our opponents get enough of its corresponding defensive unit. RP is needed for the space win anyway, and our production could really do with a hand from those lumbermills. Not sure an absolute beeline to computers is so amazing. Those are some very expensive techs on the way, none of which gets us much. A lab will give us 25-30 beakers, but also -1 health, so in reality 16-21 beakers because we loose a scientist. Lab is important, but I think we can get some other techs first to improve our long term production and research. Health is key.

I don't think we need to go up the top branch. Don't think all that research is warranted just for the Statue and 1 specialist. I'd much rather get biology earlier and hire my own specialist. We don't care about emancipation or universal suffrage. Eventually I'd like to trade for Constitution (leads to corporation) but that can wait until the tech becomes cheaper.

IHT: I merge our great scientist from Physics. I bribe Napoleon to attack FDR for Music and Divine Right. He throws in 130 gold to the deal.



T1: Grenadier -> Grenadier. I beg 350 gold from FDR, and use the money to upgrade 2 axes to grenadiers. Soon our power will be higher than Alex's.

T2: FDR asks us to cancel deals with the french. No sir.

T3: We get a great scientist. I merge him. Scientists are good, but I'd like a few engineers too. Argos (greek) is captured by the Arabians. So far Saladin has captured 2 greek cities, both are useless to him because they are swamped by foreign culture. More maintainence for him!

T4: RP comes in. We can't trade Sci Meth for Rifling, even though they are the same beakers and we have over 1000 gold in the bank. Probably because it's a monopoly tech for Saladin. I wait a while. I set research on Biology for the production. No point researching rifling/artillery if we can only build one in 4 turns, or have to sack our scientists. Lets get ourselves able to work all those mines we built. Grenadier -> Grenadier.

T5: I notice Isabella is no one's worst enemy (must be all those wars that started ). So I sell her Philosophy for 200 gold. I stop our worker mining the uranium and send him to lumbermill. Remember the uranium mine only has 3 turns to go.

T6: Parthian captured by the French. I'm not sure who owned this before. Napoleon is only at war with FDR, so it is probably his city.

T7: I somehow get both our missionaries killed on the same turn. Oh well. FDR fights back against Napoleon and captures Chatres.

T8: Grenadier -> Work Boat (for the other clams). Hatty builds Versailles. I notice she's trading her fish now, so I get it off her for copper (Rather she builds Statue than Saladin). +2 health baby! Hire another scientist in celebration.

T9: Our shock mace on a hill is attacked by a greek crossbowman and wins. Up to 9 XP. Saladin builds the Taj and starts a golden age. FDR has rifling! He won't trade it yet, but maybe since Saladin no longer has a monopoly he'll trade it for Sci Meth (also a monopoly tech goddamn it) ... What a meany. He aint trading nuffin. Work boat-> Grenadier.

T10: Nothing. Oh, I renegotiate our gems to Napoleon deal to get an extra 1 GPT. Cool!



So, biology is 2 turns away. Once we get that we can work some mines and keep our specialists. At the same time! One day we'll be able to trade for rifling and get artillery. We still have our monopoly on Sci Meth.

One thing we should consider is Athens:



Saladin has many cavs in the area and there aren't many defenders left in the city. Our 3 troops are 1 tile outside Athens, but are only macemen. I think it would be really bad if Saladin captures the city, because it will allow his 2 other ex-greek cities to function. And of course he will have a capital city. So I we should consider breaking our Sci Meth monopoly for getting Saladin to agree peace with the Greeks. He will throw in Constitution to this deal, so it might be a good one to do. He has 2 cavs (1 injured), 2 cats and 1 grenadier, so cannot capture next turn, so we have at least 1 turn to decide.

I think we should get both artillery and medicine before we head towards computers. Mmm ... environmentalism! The ultimate civic right now. Hospital and Red Cross are pretty awesome too. Red crossed artillery every turn. Sounds great.

 

[Conroe]

I bribe Napoleon to attack FDR for Music and Divine Right.
I beg 350 gold from FDR,

This just strikes me as too funny. We get Napoleon to attack FDR and he is still willing to give us a free handout afterwards!



Roster Check:
Conroe - On Deck
Methos
mike p
sooooo - Just Played
adamlan - UP

 

[Conroe]

It's Tuesday, so adamlan has probably already left town and won't be back until Saturday. I've got it and will most likely play it tonight. Methos is on deck.



Does everyone agree with the course that sooooo has laid out? It sounds pretty good to me. Although, I'm wondering if we should just ask Saladin to attack a different city rather than making peace.

 

[mike p]

That's a good idea. Asking him to attack another city keeps him on a war footing and won't cost us a tech.

 

[Methos]

It works for me.

 

[Conroe]

I found the power graph to be quite interesting. Isabella has built herself an army after her early war with Alexander. And look at what Saladin was able to accomplish after kicking off his golden age!

Turn 210 (1500 AD)

I notice that we are selling our only spice resource to FDR for 5gpt. I cancel this deal since spices give an extra health with a Grocer.

I then dial up Saladin and ask him to attack Thermopylae. If he goes ahead and attacks Athens, then I will do the peace trade that sooooo suggested.

IBT:
FDR captures Paris.

Turn 211 (1505 AD)
Our 9xp Shock Maceman has 0.4 health and needs 19 turns to heal! It looks like we won't be building the Heroic Epic anytime soon. We are in bad need of a Medic. Meanwhile, it looks like Saladin suicided his Catapult into Athens. He has only 2 healthy Cavalry that could attack next turn, so I ask again for him to attack Thermopylae.

IBT:
Tech learned: Biology
Berlin finishes: Grenadier

Turn 212 (1510 AD)
Soooo suggested either Artillery or Medicine should be researched next. Artillery requires us to research both Rifling and Steel first. However, with the extra food from the farms, Medicine is no longer as important as it was.
Research begun: Rifling
Berlin begins: Catapult

Saladin continues to attack Athens, while at the same time sending forces in the direction of Thermopylae. Saladin is down to a single healthy Cavalry and does not have the forces on hand to take the city. It will need to be monitored, though.

Roosevelt has a couple of Galleons loaded with troops sailing through our waters headed towards France. It looks like Napoleon may be getting whooped in this war. Feeling sorry for Napoleon, I offer to trade him Chemistry for Constitution. The greedy SOB thinks I should throw in Education and Printing Press, as well!

IBT:
Saladin and Alexander sign a peace treaty!

Berlin finishes: Catapult

Turn 213 (1515 AD)
Berlin begins: Catapult
The spare clams are hooked up and I sell them to FDR for 5gpt.

IBT:
FDR captures Marseilles.

Turn 214 (1520 AD)

IBT:
Berlin finishes: Catapult
While defending, Maceman loses to: Greek Crossbowman (2.76/6) at 25.1 percent.
Don't worry, that wasn't our 9xp Shock Maceman. But, since his cover has been blown, it is time to get him out of harm's way. I have a Grenadier in our Galleon heading his way for reinforcements.

Turn 215 (1525 AD)
Berlin begins: Grenadier

IBT:
Tech learned: Rifling

Turn 216 (1530 AD)
Research begun: Steel
Saladin already has Steel, and frankly I would love to take it off of his hands. Unfortunately, neither Saladin nor Roosevelt seem interested in Scientific Method.

IBT:
Berlin finishes: Grenadier

Turn 217 (1535 AD)
Berlin begins: Grenadier

Napoleon is taking a thrashing at the hands of Roosevelt. I decide to buy Constitution from him in exchange for Chemistry and Liberalism. The deal moves Napoleon to friendly status, but drops FDR to cautious as we have traded with his worst enemy. In hindsight, it may not have been a wise move on my part. However, if FDR does declare on us, his Riflemen will be facing our Grenadiers.
Tech learned: Constitution

IBT:
Roosevelt is the first to discover Democracy and switch to Universal Suffrage and Emancipation. Meanwhile, Saladin researches Scientific Method thus ending our monopoly.
Sinan (Great Engineer) born in Berlin The lightbulb will give us 1000 beakers (20%) towards Steam Power. He should probably be merged, but I will put him to sleep until we decide what to do with him.

Turn 218 (1540 AD)
I am trying to shop Scientific Method around, but none of the AI's seem to think it is that valuable. You'd think I was offering them Archery in exchange for Rifling. But, I would really like to pick up the extra trade route from Corporation, so I decide to do a deal with Hatty. We pick up Corporation and some gold in exchange for Scientific Method.
Tech learned: Corporation
I then decide to sell Biology to Saladin in exchange for Steel and all of his gold. He is getting a really sweet deal, but it saves us 4 turns on researching Steel and lets us get started on Artillery. Plus, we now have 2000 gold to upgrade anything we want.
Tech learned: Steel
Research begun: Artillery

IBT:
Berlin finishes: Grenadier

Turn 219 (1545 AD)
Berlin begins: Catapult

Turn 220 (1550 AD)

We have 6 turns remaining on Artillery. We are currently the tech leaders. Our closest tech rival is Saladin, who is probably busy researching Democracy at the moment.

As for where we go from here, does anybody think declaring on FDR would benefit us? I'm undecided. FDR was keeping up with Saladin in techs for awhile. But because of my trading, Saladin has jumped ahead. FDR remains the GNP leader, though. The three American border cities are all manned by Riflemen, which would not stand a chance against our Grenadiers. He does have Cavalry, though, but we can upgrade our muskets to counter that threat. We've already got a handful of Catapults which can lower the city defenses. My big fear, though, is would this enable Saladin to get stronger? Any thoughts?

 

[Methos]

Got it, but it won't be until tomorrow before I can play.

 

[sooooo]

We're looking good especially in the tech situation. We have plenty of money (and can get more if we sell DR to Isabella) so lets produce more cats until we get artillery and then upgrade them. After Artillery comes in we can fire some scientists and work more mines. Maybe railroad and combustion next for a decent navy? We should merge the sleeping engineer IMO.

 

[Methos]

Sorry guys, but I'm going to have to ask for a skip. My wife's grandmother finally got out of the hospital and into a skilled nursing care. Now we have to move all her stuff out of assisted living so I'm not expecting to be able to play until sometime tomorrow.

My apolgies as I've been quiet here for a couple weeks. Her grandmother went into the hospital a week and a half ago. Originally the doctors said she probably wouldn't make it through the night. When she did they said she probably wouldn't make it over 48 hours. After that they gave her a matter of days to weeks. Now they're saying they're just not for sure. One doctor stated it's due to her being a Brit, and the fact we never have knocked those Brits off that rock! She's a warbride btw.

Again, my apologies.