I thought a few of us already said Mining.
Full Monty
- Thread starter shyuhe
- Start date
shyuhe
Deity
Fair point, I'll play through mining then.
shyuhe
Deity
Played halfway through BW and made contact. We're on a crappy peninsula:
And our first loon from the east:
Got 34 gold from a hut. That's about the only interesting thing so far. The worker just finished though.
Roster:
shyuhe just played
mystyfly - UP
bbp (on deck)
kossin
soirana
Silu (lurking)
And our first loon from the east:
Got 34 gold from a hut. That's about the only interesting thing so far. The worker just finished though.
Roster:
shyuhe just played
mystyfly - UP
bbp (on deck)
kossin
soirana
Silu (lurking)
mining first surely, after depends on map a bit, but BW should be high enough. Vultures are so good in getting barb cities
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edit: Damn, forum ninjas. Rather okay land for me. especially if gems are in cluster as they happen to be in jungle belt.
.edit: Damn, forum ninjas
. Rather okay land for me. especially if gems are in cluster as they happen to be in jungle belt.
Hopefully, there's some non-jungle food along that east river. With CRE, fish/cow isn't too bad for a second city, though I guess we wait for BW before starting that discussion.
I think we can just finish BW and farm the resources.
I think we can just finish BW and farm the resources.
Aww crap, looks like my post written on the iphone didn't make it quite to CFC 
Thank god my internet is running again 
Anyway... doesn't look too juicy to be honest, I really hate those huge jungle areas, though they're a nice kind of land to capture from AIs... Kinda strange how few food there is, just 1 seafood... At least we won't have to go looking too far to find a GPFarm. Exploring east clearly is priority with the current warrior. Mining > BW is good too, I find that often you get the resource of your (early) UU in/near the capital.
Since there is really nothing to discuss until we get BW I'll just go ahead...
@shyuhe: Where exactly did you get that name (thread) from?
I just noticed that a thread with a very similar title exists
Thank god my internet is running again Anyway... doesn't look too juicy to be honest, I really hate those huge jungle areas, though they're a nice kind of land to capture from AIs... Kinda strange how few food there is, just 1 seafood... At least we won't have to go looking too far to find a GPFarm. Exploring east clearly is priority with the current warrior. Mining > BW is good too, I find that often you get the resource of your (early) UU in/near the capital.
Since there is really nothing to discuss until we get BW I'll just go ahead...
@shyuhe: Where exactly did you get that name (thread) from?
I just noticed that a thread with a very similar title exists Played 9 turns till BW.
Negative notes:
Positive notes:
The guy who was hoping for a cluster of gems was right. However there's still negative note #1... There's gold too though, MC is high priority.
Land:
Now, to the discussion points:
What techs...? Without a library it's going to take Uruk 101 turns to get the copper into the borders. Thanks to the river we'd only need to road 1 tile if settle a city there so it's quite quick but still a risk, so long without any defence. You might have noticed the barb city... which seems to be quite good
Well, if we're settle copper it'll be NE of it, it would be instantly connected to uruk (+2C), and we don't need to tech archery. However there's still the possibility of horses... do we want to gamble and just tech AH while growing the capital on warriors until we get AH? Copper city will be crap until we get fishing and a WB out. So far, fish + cows looks to be our best GP site, and we're about to blow it...
Every good tile close to the rivers is covered in jungle. We need to know where blue monty has his home to block him. Pig + Gold looks quite tasty though
Is it just my eyes or does this monty have EXACTLY our colors?
View attachment Full Monty BC-3040.CivBeyondSwordSave
Negative notes:
- Jungle. A lot of Jungle.
- Barbs, quite plenty of 'em as well
- Copper just not in reach
Positive notes:
- Forest spread in Uruk... yay
The guy who was hoping for a cluster of gems was right. However there's still negative note #1... There's gold too though, MC is high priority.
Land:
Spoiler :
Now, to the discussion points:
What techs...? Without a library it's going to take Uruk 101 turns to get the copper into the borders. Thanks to the river we'd only need to road 1 tile if settle a city there so it's quite quick but still a risk, so long without any defence. You might have noticed the barb city... which seems to be quite good
Well, if we're settle copper it'll be NE of it, it would be instantly connected to uruk (+2C), and we don't need to tech archery. However there's still the possibility of horses... do we want to gamble and just tech AH while growing the capital on warriors until we get AH? Copper city will be crap until we get fishing and a WB out. So far, fish + cows looks to be our best GP site, and we're about to blow it...
Every good tile close to the rivers is covered in jungle. We need to know where blue monty has his home to block him. Pig + Gold looks quite tasty though
Is it just my eyes or does this monty have EXACTLY our colors?
View attachment Full Monty BC-3040.CivBeyondSwordSave
Ugly.
Copper location's unfortunate. I think the cow/fish/rice site is the only decent food city we have, so we shouldn't give it up. Maybe a crap city 3W of capital just for copper? Don't exactly like that, though.
1SW of pig is awesome, but I suspect that will be gone before we get there. One can always hope...
Copper location's unfortunate. I think the cow/fish/rice site is the only decent food city we have, so we shouldn't give it up. Maybe a crap city 3W of capital just for copper? Don't exactly like that, though.
1SW of pig is awesome, but I suspect that will be gone before we get there. One can always hope...
I noticed that in tests (you can see one of the screenshots in my post yesterday). It's silly, 'cause you can't even tell where your border with him is.
Nice findings!
We need to find out if there's any potential sites directly east of the capital, otherwise it looks as though we're going to need Fishing for city #2 right away. A size 2 city isn't exactly great for pumping workers but if that's all we can get right now...
Settling beyond the jungle is too costly atm, even for the gold, it would barely pay the maintenance.
Can't look at the save just yet but will look at it this evening before saying more.
We need to find out if there's any potential sites directly east of the capital, otherwise it looks as though we're going to need Fishing for city #2 right away. A size 2 city isn't exactly great for pumping workers but if that's all we can get right now...
Settling beyond the jungle is too costly atm, even for the gold, it would barely pay the maintenance.
Can't look at the save just yet but will look at it this evening before saying more.
shyuhe
Deity
I'll edit his color if it makes a difference. Didn't realize it's so close to ours, although he's supposed to be indigo (not sure what color we are).
My rambling thoughts:
The large amount of land without seeing AI culture borders = lots of barbs I think. We can go hunting--archery for defense and then pick up AH for the cows. With the Monty's running around, I'm pretty sure we'll want archery sooner or later. Then again, we also want IW for the jungle too... The lack of commerce in the capital is a killer here.
So I suggest that we build an early-ish settler (size 3 capital I think) to go settle 1NE of the copper to grab the copper. We hold down the fort with a few well placed warriors in jungle hill tiles until the copper is up. Will that be too slow to fight off barbs? We can pre-road the copper so it'll be settler build turns (10-ish?) + 1 turn moving settler + 4 turns mining copper before we can get vultures. We can revolt to slavery in the settler moving turn so that we can whip a vulture as soon as settler build + 6 turns (to avoid whipping penalty). That should beat the barb invasion date.
1NE of copper can eventually work 2 hills + copper with the fish so it'll be a pretty good production city.
My rambling thoughts:
The large amount of land without seeing AI culture borders = lots of barbs I think. We can go hunting--archery for defense and then pick up AH for the cows. With the Monty's running around, I'm pretty sure we'll want archery sooner or later. Then again, we also want IW for the jungle too... The lack of commerce in the capital is a killer here.
So I suggest that we build an early-ish settler (size 3 capital I think) to go settle 1NE of the copper to grab the copper. We hold down the fort with a few well placed warriors in jungle hill tiles until the copper is up. Will that be too slow to fight off barbs? We can pre-road the copper so it'll be settler build turns (10-ish?) + 1 turn moving settler + 4 turns mining copper before we can get vultures. We can revolt to slavery in the settler moving turn so that we can whip a vulture as soon as settler build + 6 turns (to avoid whipping penalty). That should beat the barb invasion date.
1NE of copper can eventually work 2 hills + copper with the fish so it'll be a pretty good production city.
I don't think we can justify not settling copper with a probable-future-gp-powerhouse. Yes, we'll want archery eventually, but no, we can't afford to research the 2 techs right now. I see uruk as a future buerocracy capital so we might as well get started with building cottages now as we need a way to fund our expansion and teching. ATM I prefer teching fishing > pottery > AH > writing and settling NE of copper. This way we should be reasonnabely safe from barbs (vultures + easily defendable 2 cities), the cash from a city or three should come in handy too, and we can start developing uruk while not wasting any beakers on archery just yet. We'll get our GPs somehow... I hope...
We can't really hope to block off monty(ies) just yet as we haven't even found 1 of them. I think we should wait with blocking until the 3rd city both to find spots and to get units to actually defend this (faraway) city. Jungle means we'll have some more time to settle and creative means we can afford to be aggressive with settling without getting our cities crushed. With protective archers later we should be able to defend our cities reasonnabely easily - looking out for hills to settle on might be worth it
We can't really hope to block off monty(ies) just yet as we haven't even found 1 of them. I think we should wait with blocking until the 3rd city both to find spots and to get units to actually defend this (faraway) city. Jungle means we'll have some more time to settle and creative means we can afford to be aggressive with settling without getting our cities crushed. With protective archers later we should be able to defend our cities reasonnabely easily - looking out for hills to settle on might be worth it
Where you see that powerhouse? you can settle cows/banana/rice if you need. As food goes it is not far away and has more green land for biofarms really late.
I would settle fish/copper/shared rice without doubts... we already have barb city which we wanna to take...
Getting vulture or two also means you can aggresively try settle towards gold and so on. [so on means getting money and cities from barbs mainly.]
There is some coast signs eastwards so i would not hope for much land. If that "little" has some resources is another question.
For me main question is long strategy. Sort i do not want chop trees without seeing how big forest is.
Do we aim for writing for creative libraries? [let say copper fish, could build library and run two scientists ASAP]
Do we aim for priesthood? cheap UB [at least cheaper than curthouses], possible oracle [not sure it is worth much on thhis map]
Do we aim at settling gems/getting barb city and IW? three gems and gold would give more than our cap with library and academy...
What we would do if one of monty's gets full hand mode in 2000BC and we have neither archery or settled copper?
Personally i'd prefer IW over cottages in here. non riverside cottages, IMHO, never make cut anyway.
Short term for me is get copper and tech fishing.
I don't see what we'd cottage here, either, despite the probable early commerce issues. There are only two river grass. We have more of a need for hammers early, and I would consider moving an academy/bureau cap to pig/gems/gold later, if we could grab that site.
I like with Fishing > ... > Writing. Unsure about the timing on the AH/Pottery bit - need to think about it. Early CRE libraries would mean a lot.
Copper/fish next, ok. We can have the settler T35 / copper T40 / (emergency whip) vulture T42? Maybe just a touch late if we're expecting to get completely swarmed, but I don't see a better option. Hunting/Archery beakers we don't really have to spare, IMHO.
I like with Fishing > ... > Writing. Unsure about the timing on the AH/Pottery bit - need to think about it. Early CRE libraries would mean a lot.
Copper/fish next, ok. We can have the settler T35 / copper T40 / (emergency whip) vulture T42? Maybe just a touch late if we're expecting to get completely swarmed, but I don't see a better option. Hunting/Archery beakers we don't really have to spare, IMHO.
shyuhe
Deity
Uruk has good production but it will never produce many beakers from cottages. I'd much prefer to send a settler out to settle the gold/pig/gem site as that's a much better bureau site. That means prioritizing iron working.
MatrixTheKitty
Skitty
I am a bit drunk so take this post with care...
@matrixkitty: I was more referring to this thread...
OK looks like we're set on settling copper and screwing this GPFarm. @soirana: GPFarms are mostly about foodOVERFLOW so fish is great with 6F. Cows/banana/rice is "only" 4F 5F 4F after we get calendar and until CS... GPFarms should start earlier than this though...
Getting vultures has nothing to do with settling, only with capturing barbs and "feeling" safe... Archers just mean we get our "good" units later...
Soirana, what do you mean by forest and long-term? We seem to have plenty of health without those forests... And early hammers are much more worth than late health. I don't see any harm chopping them.
I do agree though that we don't have many tiles to cottage... However, 2 tiles + 2 food tiles (rice + corn) + a few hills is all we will be able to work until HR so this is ok imo...
Oracle is out on deity. And we don't need zigs quite yet...
@shyuhe: Do you mean to move the capital? "A bit commerce" with "lots of hammers" might be not that bad with buero when fighting tons of monties... I'm not a fan of moving the capital anyway... I see this game a bit like AW so we have 2 options: Try to outproduce the AI or outtech them... With this land I don't see us teching much until much later in the game so we'd need production now... I don't see much reason to move the capital, especially if we want to start drafting at some point...
So I think our shortterm plans are fishing > ah > pottery(?) > writing and growing to size 4(?) to whip a settler? Since city 2 is so easily defendable we could also start at size 2 and whip it...
@matrixkitty: I was more referring to this thread...
OK looks like we're set on settling copper and screwing this GPFarm. @soirana: GPFarms are mostly about foodOVERFLOW so fish is great with 6F. Cows/banana/rice is "only" 4F 5F 4F after we get calendar and until CS... GPFarms should start earlier than this though...
Getting vultures has nothing to do with settling, only with capturing barbs and "feeling" safe... Archers just mean we get our "good" units later...
Soirana, what do you mean by forest and long-term? We seem to have plenty of health without those forests... And early hammers are much more worth than late health. I don't see any harm chopping them.
I do agree though that we don't have many tiles to cottage... However, 2 tiles + 2 food tiles (rice + corn) + a few hills is all we will be able to work until HR so this is ok imo...
Oracle is out on deity. And we don't need zigs quite yet...
@shyuhe: Do you mean to move the capital? "A bit commerce" with "lots of hammers" might be not that bad with buero when fighting tons of monties... I'm not a fan of moving the capital anyway... I see this game a bit like AW so we have 2 options: Try to outproduce the AI or outtech them... With this land I don't see us teching much until much later in the game so we'd need production now... I don't see much reason to move the capital, especially if we want to start drafting at some point...
So I think our shortterm plans are fishing > ah > pottery(?) > writing and growing to size 4(?) to whip a settler? Since city 2 is so easily defendable we could also start at size 2 and whip it...
Pretty much agree with the Fishing>...>Writing consensus.
Uruk is a production city with that many hills... maybe an early cottage to help pay the bills but that's about it. If we grab the multi-gems site, that's a much better commerce city.
The 'GP farm' is actually pretty weak with ->0 production to help set it up, settling it on the only hill in the vicinity. I suppose we can survive the barbs with warriors while we wait on the first vultures.
Digging deeper in techs, do we want to beeline IW or gamble and go for Alphabet&co. ?
Monty isn't hyper-likely to go for Alphabet but he's not super-trade friendly either.
While Oracle is a bad bet here, we should consider Ziggurats not too late as their reduced cost (90H) makes them much faster to return their hammer cost. It also will help with the espionage should we need a tech or two.
What's the map type again?
Uruk is a production city with that many hills... maybe an early cottage to help pay the bills but that's about it. If we grab the multi-gems site, that's a much better commerce city.
The 'GP farm' is actually pretty weak with ->0 production to help set it up, settling it on the only hill in the vicinity. I suppose we can survive the barbs with warriors while we wait on the first vultures.
Digging deeper in techs, do we want to beeline IW or gamble and go for Alphabet&co. ?
Monty isn't hyper-likely to go for Alphabet but he's not super-trade friendly either.
While Oracle is a bad bet here, we should consider Ziggurats not too late as their reduced cost (90H) makes them much faster to return their hammer cost. It also will help with the espionage should we need a tech or two.
What's the map type again?
Well with whip overflow and the forests we should be able to get a decent GPFarm quite soon, I see tech (to literature) as the limiting factor. However we might easily find another good GP site soon.
Gambling on alpha is quite risky... with all the jungle we should probalby just tech writing > IW.
Regarding the multi-gems site, I don't see why we'd want to have them all in 1 city, with the barb city placement we can split the gems easily between 2 great citites. My thinking just is; by the time we get the palace to a decently developed city working 3 gems we can get another (better) city work 3-5 villages... But moving the capital depends on the amount of hammers required, if we survive without any DOW until, say, 500AD, we can screw hammers and tech rifling to stomp on tha AIs, but most likely we'll need to have a lot of hammers early for units so buerocracy would be very useful for uruk. And we can get a few villages there easily. NE of copper could develop 2 cottages for uruk.
Gambling on alpha is quite risky... with all the jungle we should probalby just tech writing > IW.
Regarding the multi-gems site, I don't see why we'd want to have them all in 1 city, with the barb city placement we can split the gems easily between 2 great citites. My thinking just is; by the time we get the palace to a decently developed city working 3 gems we can get another (better) city work 3-5 villages... But moving the capital depends on the amount of hammers required, if we survive without any DOW until, say, 500AD, we can screw hammers and tech rifling to stomp on tha AIs, but most likely we'll need to have a lot of hammers early for units so buerocracy would be very useful for uruk. And we can get a few villages there easily. NE of copper could develop 2 cottages for uruk.
Given Monty peaceweights (they'll like each other...), I very much expect an AW-setting and no easy run to Rifling
That is, unless we can manage to constantly bribe them to war to keep them busy... where Alphabet can be useful.
Not saying I prefer Alphabet, just evaluating our options.
That is, unless we can manage to constantly bribe them to war to keep them busy... where Alphabet can be useful.
Not saying I prefer Alphabet, just evaluating our options.
shyuhe
Deity
We'll definitely have to do lots of bribing (and choose sides early) to keep some of the Montys off our back. Unless we're isolated with this one 
The copper/fish site can use the fish + rice to feed 3 specialists, throw in a grass farm and it can run 4 specialists. Not great, but good enough for the early-mid game period. And it has hammers to build the necessary buildings so I'd just plop the NE there unless we find something more convincing. With rice going to copper city though, that means more farms in Uruk to work the hills. So I see maybe 1-2 riverside cottages, max. Mostly to foot the bills for early expansion.
Fishing -> AH -> pottery -> writing seems to be the consensus. The only remaining question is how to get the settler out faster. I think a slow build at size 2 working the corn and rice (or 3 with a grass hill) is faster than growing to size 4 + whip.
@kossin - map type is fractal.
Oracle on deity is doable, but I'd rather save our hammers on more useful things. We won't be running our own religion (suicide) and the only good "military" tech we could take is metal casting. But we're not industrious and lack mysticism so I don't think it's worth the early detour in our commerce limited start.
As for the thread name, I was thinking more of the British comedy...
The copper/fish site can use the fish + rice to feed 3 specialists, throw in a grass farm and it can run 4 specialists. Not great, but good enough for the early-mid game period. And it has hammers to build the necessary buildings so I'd just plop the NE there unless we find something more convincing. With rice going to copper city though, that means more farms in Uruk to work the hills. So I see maybe 1-2 riverside cottages, max. Mostly to foot the bills for early expansion.
Fishing -> AH -> pottery -> writing seems to be the consensus. The only remaining question is how to get the settler out faster. I think a slow build at size 2 working the corn and rice (or 3 with a grass hill) is faster than growing to size 4 + whip.
@kossin - map type is fractal.
Oracle on deity is doable, but I'd rather save our hammers on more useful things. We won't be running our own religion (suicide) and the only good "military" tech we could take is metal casting. But we're not industrious and lack mysticism so I don't think it's worth the early detour in our commerce limited start.
As for the thread name, I was thinking more of the British comedy...
