what's where 2 food loss comes, no? You can farm pig too assuming it doesn't go to indigo monty at some time.
Full Monty
- Thread starter shyuhe
- Start date
what's where 2 food loss comes, no? You can farm pig too assuming it doesn't go to indigo monty at some time.
IMO there are 2 small techs we want, AH and PH. Since we can directly tech AH, its cheapness and instant use I'm definitely for teching AH first. We won't be gaining more than 1g from zigs just yet. Teching any big tech like alpha/aesth will take too long, we must get both basic techs first. Alpha vs aest is another very difficult question as we're in an unique AI situation. We don't have to decide on this just yet though. For now, AH > PH. Just to be able to work the pigs is worth it as without food, we can't work the gold.
We have rice and farmed pigs in that city, what's the problem?
I do not understand why you should ever want AH in situation like this. Let alone "must" part.
I tried some quick testings. Monty's should tech maths and alpha before we finish trade bait.
shyuhe
Deity
I'm thinking AH for now - pretty sure Bactrian has horses and it also has cows so it's worth the tech. I'll post a more detailed plan tonight.
Had a look:
-don't like the useless roads, we could use improvements instead... however we might as well finish this one road by Bactrian
-open borders now and get a wb exploring (might also encourage missionary spamming)... there might be more Montys about (Judaism in green, but I think Indigo founded since he has TGW)
-it'd be nice to farm a level 4 Vulture but with the last barb city on hill it'll be more difficult. Anyway, send a few units that way in case Monty/Monty is assaulting it.
Green Aztec is gonna DoW us in the near future with that stupid city he's about to settle in the middle of our land.
We should prepare for this (Masonry for cheap walls, Archery somewhere to counter Chariots etc.) and also have an offensive stack to hopefully snipe either the gems city (very unlikely) or the western city he'll settle soon.
Converting to Hindu will help not getting Indigo dragged in against us... maybe not convert right now but soon.
We could also consider DoW'ing Green before he is ready (catapults) for a cheap GG perhaps and grabbing a weak city.
Next techs:
Hunting>AH>?Archery?>Myst (for Ziggs eventually)>Masonry
Let's forget about trading chip for now. No point having one if you're gonna die.
You might disagree, and I'm fine with that but we need a long-term plan here or we're gonna get spanked.
-don't like the useless roads, we could use improvements instead... however we might as well finish this one road by Bactrian
-open borders now and get a wb exploring (might also encourage missionary spamming)... there might be more Montys about (Judaism in green, but I think Indigo founded since he has TGW)
-it'd be nice to farm a level 4 Vulture but with the last barb city on hill it'll be more difficult. Anyway, send a few units that way in case Monty/Monty is assaulting it.
Green Aztec is gonna DoW us in the near future with that stupid city he's about to settle in the middle of our land.
We should prepare for this (Masonry for cheap walls, Archery somewhere to counter Chariots etc.) and also have an offensive stack to hopefully snipe either the gems city (very unlikely) or the western city he'll settle soon.
Converting to Hindu will help not getting Indigo dragged in against us... maybe not convert right now but soon.
We could also consider DoW'ing Green before he is ready (catapults) for a cheap GG perhaps and grabbing a weak city.
Next techs:
Hunting>AH>?Archery?>Myst (for Ziggs eventually)>Masonry
Let's forget about trading chip for now. No point having one if you're gonna die.
You might disagree, and I'm fine with that but we need a long-term plan here or we're gonna get spanked.
Like your defensive plan, kos. I'd make a small adjustment in teching though, what about hunting,AH,myst,medi/poly,PH,archery. Not sure about walls, don't like them too much. Also I'm not sure on medi vs poly, medi is faster ofc and opens up philo bulbing (assuming a low slider, else academy for sure) but poly would open up GL...
Don't think getting a lvl 4 vulture soon is a problem.
Don't think getting a lvl 4 vulture soon is a problem.
as we are Protective, that's a 1-pop whip only)as we are protective. It helps also as we don't have hills in our cities.Forgot about doublespeed for walls. But we also have better archers and axes... 
Masonry isn't the cheapest of techs especially when we're in a tight economical situation.
AFAIK we have neither stone nor marble... masonry is looking less and less nicely, is it?
Masonry isn't the cheapest of techs especially when we're in a tight economical situation.AFAIK we have neither stone nor marble... masonry is looking less and less nicely, is it?
IIRC, both our neighbours have ivory.
You sure archers and walls make cut being on wrong side of elepult?
I'd still say jump to hindu [probably] and start gathering diplo bonuses from trades.
If you calculate green monties espionage on us and indigo it is quite less than 4EP per turn. There must be someone beside him probably blocked by closed borders.
We need to find that extra monty [or multiples], to get view on diplo situation.
I guess next turn kish will expand borders there is very slight chance it will cause green settler go somewhere else... [in case he aimed for second ring bananas i think.]
I also admire person who started road going eastwards by building directly north.
Oh wait that was not me....
You sure archers and walls make cut being on wrong side of elepult?
I'd still say jump to hindu [probably] and start gathering diplo bonuses from trades.
If you calculate green monties espionage on us and indigo it is quite less than 4EP per turn. There must be someone beside him probably blocked by closed borders.
We need to find that extra monty [or multiples], to get view on diplo situation.
I guess next turn kish will expand borders there is very slight chance it will cause green settler go somewhere else... [in case he aimed for second ring bananas i think.]
I also admire person who started road going eastwards by building directly north.
Oh wait that was not me....
shyuhe
Deity
Walls are good - we should tech masonry soonish but after archery. I think the immediate tech order is hunting--AH, and if either Monty goes hands full we immediately go archery. followed by masonry.
Green has ivory = elephants eventually so we need to be careful of those.
Green has ivory = elephants eventually so we need to be careful of those.
IIRC, both our neighbours have ivory.
You sure archers and walls make cut being on wrong side of elepult?
I'd still say jump to hindu [probably] and start gathering diplo bonuses from trades.
If you calculate green monties espionage on us and indigo it is quite less than 4EP per turn. There must be someone beside him probably blocked by closed borders.
We need to find that extra monty [or multiples], to get view on diplo situation.
I guess next turn kish will expand borders there is very slight chance it will cause green settler go somewhere else... [in case he aimed for second ring bananas i think.]
I also admire person who started road going eastwards by building directly north.
Oh wait that was not me....
Elepult: before he hits Construction Green will likely DoW so not worried yet.
Roads: remember where the second city was planned? that's right, North by the gems.
Green settler: don't worry, he'll settle next to our border somewhere and hate us afterwards. That's a guarantee.
You can't seriously expect green to be happy with us so we might as well get ready for war, the sooner the easier to deal with it. If he hits Indigo first, we'll get hit in the 10-turn peace most likely.
Indigo has 2EP/turn on us and Green 4EP/turn atm iIrc. It's very likely there are more AIs but again it's hard to confirm so.
We definitely have time to get archers and walls up before any monty can tech construction and build their army.
Out of curiosity, I looked up your signup soirana... you said you could win OCC on immortal sometimes... what does this mean, do you mostly play OCC?
Out of curiosity, I looked up your signup soirana... you said you could win OCC on immortal sometimes... what does this mean, do you mostly play OCC?
shyuhe
Deity
Ok, PPP:
Set research to hunting, 0% slider:
IT: Nada, cancel all pending worker actions. Uruk stays on library, Eridu on worker. Other 3 cities build granaries.
T+1: Uruk worker roads iron mine. Three Eridu workers start chopping gems, Bactrian worker heads to gem tile. Circassian worker heads to gem tile.
T+2: chop jungle and activate gems - Bactrian works it. Uruk completes library, change plainshill to rice to grow to 6 (soon 7) while building granary. Eridu whips worker. Slider to 100%.
T+3: Eridu overflow to granary, work fish/copper. Uruk worker heads to farm river grass near Uruk. 2 workers head to Circ for gold. One worker heads to hill 1N of Bactrian and starts chopping. One worker each heads to 1NW of Bactrian and 1W of Bactrian and starts chopping.
T+4: Start mining gold. Other workers start chopping jungle. Uruk worker starts farming. Hunting done, set research to AH.
T+5: Uruk finishes granary, starts a warrior while growing at max (steal rice from Eridu).
T+7: Gold online. Workers head to pigs.
T+8: Chopping workers done. One starts farming, one moves to cows, Bactrian 1N starts mining to prevent jungle spread. Pig workers start pasturing. I think AH should be done on this turn. Set research to masonry. Probably stop here to re-assess.
Obviously I'm not working off of a test save but this is the general flow that I see going. I am not prioritizing the iron near Kish as the city needs food (farms) first. Plus we need commerce (riverside tiles). The Bactrian worker is to clear the jungle near Bactrian to deny forest cover to any siege of Bactrian. As for religion, do we want to take Hindu now? It'll make indigo easier to work with but green will be likely to declare war quickly.
Once we get hunting, we should build a scout to send east.
Set research to hunting, 0% slider:
IT: Nada, cancel all pending worker actions. Uruk stays on library, Eridu on worker. Other 3 cities build granaries.
T+1: Uruk worker roads iron mine. Three Eridu workers start chopping gems, Bactrian worker heads to gem tile. Circassian worker heads to gem tile.
T+2: chop jungle and activate gems - Bactrian works it. Uruk completes library, change plainshill to rice to grow to 6 (soon 7) while building granary. Eridu whips worker. Slider to 100%.
T+3: Eridu overflow to granary, work fish/copper. Uruk worker heads to farm river grass near Uruk. 2 workers head to Circ for gold. One worker heads to hill 1N of Bactrian and starts chopping. One worker each heads to 1NW of Bactrian and 1W of Bactrian and starts chopping.
T+4: Start mining gold. Other workers start chopping jungle. Uruk worker starts farming. Hunting done, set research to AH.
T+5: Uruk finishes granary, starts a warrior while growing at max (steal rice from Eridu).
T+7: Gold online. Workers head to pigs.
T+8: Chopping workers done. One starts farming, one moves to cows, Bactrian 1N starts mining to prevent jungle spread. Pig workers start pasturing. I think AH should be done on this turn. Set research to masonry. Probably stop here to re-assess.
Obviously I'm not working off of a test save but this is the general flow that I see going. I am not prioritizing the iron near Kish as the city needs food (farms) first. Plus we need commerce (riverside tiles). The Bactrian worker is to clear the jungle near Bactrian to deny forest cover to any siege of Bactrian. As for religion, do we want to take Hindu now? It'll make indigo easier to work with but green will be likely to declare war quickly.
Once we get hunting, we should build a scout to send east.
@Soirana
HBR+Masonry+Mathematics+Construction is a while even on Deity, especially for Monty
We will know after shy's round for certain when the economy stabilizes somewhat. Even in the worst case scenario where you are right, we should look to win something from the skirmish -> defensive position to kill stack -> offensive stack to snipe city.
@PPP
Plan looks good. We're losing a tad bit of hammers+food yield in Uruk by finishing the granary after growth but we need food way more than hammers so it's fine to prioritize food. Maybe consider turning mines into scientists to boost research?
We're not ready for war yet so hold off on Hindu unless hit by a demand. In ~20 turns we should be able to handle Indigo DoW.
HBR+Masonry+Mathematics+Construction is a while even on Deity, especially for Monty
We will know after shy's round for certain when the economy stabilizes somewhat. Even in the worst case scenario where you are right, we should look to win something from the skirmish -> defensive position to kill stack -> offensive stack to snipe city.
@PPP
Plan looks good. We're losing a tad bit of hammers+food yield in Uruk by finishing the granary after growth but we need food way more than hammers so it's fine to prioritize food. Maybe consider turning mines into scientists to boost research?
We're not ready for war yet so hold off on Hindu unless hit by a demand. In ~20 turns we should be able to handle Indigo DoW.
And they say my worker usage is dreadful?
why you need road second iron? instead of moving that poor guy via new highway?
T+1 if you stop worker on iron in kish you can stop from wasting turn on moving. It still arrives in time to do something on gems.
T+2 you can't whip worker yet. Whiping saves about two turns i guess... i rather borrow tin mine from cap after it finishes library
the fact kish low on food does not devalue iron tile. It is okay slow build granary from that tile in my book and as said it can be done mostly with moving through workers. if there is actually two chops on gems already done you do not need to move guy from gold onto gems.
Scout.... why not send one of military units? We really do not want pay upkeep for scouts...
I also miss part where we hire two guys in the only library we have instead of working mines.... These two guys would give at least 1/3 of our teching potential.
I guess you have not looked what we loose on 100% science, right? We could tech AH on turn you say but we do not have enough gold stockpiled... We could raze barb city in deep north for xp and money i guess but this would take a while...
Realistically you can make to AH at end of 10 turns i believe. Skipping humo and personalities aside - you really sure it is worth it?
Putting good chunk of research for 2 hammers and 2 food? The fact people normally do so is not reason it should be always done...
re hindu... isn't it vice versa? since indigo is not founder of his stupid religion i guess he would end in hindu one way or other...
re defense plans: are archers really that much better than vulures [skipping hammer costs]?
My concern is while we tech Hunting>AH>archery>Myst>masonry>poly/mediation>PH we will end being era behind. In end we will have elephants calling at our gates with or without siege support. both monties have horse so we can't even expect delay on tecching HBR or not seeing HA's honestly.
On other hand going let say Masonry>aesthetics, let's use vultures+walls for immediate defense, while providing some chance for catchup in mid terms. [most likely after bulbing something]
re OCC: i do play OCC lately, mostly cause this is faster, but i have played enough games with multiple cities allowded
Archers can't be much better than Vultures against anything but chariots. I imagine we get attacked by something like jags or HAs? I'd be inclined to give Hunt-Arch a skip until Feud age, but you guys probably know better... Masonry's good.
We don't have a counter to elepult realistically, so I'm not sure it matters so much. If we get attacked by that too early, it'll be tough.
What kind of trading could we even do beyond Alpha and Monarchy, unless we meet 1 or 2 more?
We don't have a counter to elepult realistically, so I'm not sure it matters so much. If we get attacked by that too early, it'll be tough.
What kind of trading could we even do beyond Alpha and Monarchy, unless we meet 1 or 2 more?
shyuhe
Deity
CG2 archers are better than vultures at defending for chariots and axes. Vultures are really only better against spears, which is a pretty marginal difference anyways. I guess vultures are better against elephants but that's an uphill battle.
Good point about the iron. We don't have iron right now but I still think it's safer to connect the southern one as back-up. I will change the northern worker heading south to mine for a turn on the way down.
With gems + gold online, we will be positive. I want to grow Uruk to max size before hiring the scientists. I won't whip Eridu - I'll just juggle tiles with Uruk.
I can send a vulture out to scout east but it'll take forever with a one move unit. Is it really worth it?
I'll wait a few more hours before playing.
Good point about the iron. We don't have iron right now but I still think it's safer to connect the southern one as back-up. I will change the northern worker heading south to mine for a turn on the way down.
With gems + gold online, we will be positive. I want to grow Uruk to max size before hiring the scientists. I won't whip Eridu - I'll just juggle tiles with Uruk.
I can send a vulture out to scout east but it'll take forever with a one move unit. Is it really worth it?
I'll wait a few more hours before playing.
