[FULL] Putmalk's Ancient World Discussion Thread

[Putmalk]

why not adding the spartans instead of minoans they are far more interesting

Because both the Mycenaeans and Greeks (who represent Macedonia) are in this game. This means that Spartans are technically already covered. I think it would be pointless to continue to add Greek civilizations to the game when the need for them is low.

Having many Greek civilizations is integral to ambrox's and Numitor's mod - it's called "Greek Epic". This mod, however, is called "Ancient World", as is not designed to be so specific to one part of the world. As it is already, it's very ethnocentric in the form of Western and Middle Eastern Empires, which is why in future releases I am thinking about moving a bit Eastward and handling civs such as the Shang Dynasty and maybe the Maurya...

Minoans, however, would be historically separate and not already covered in the mod. Also it would give another trading civ into the game - as opposed to another conquest civ. I always welcome new naval civs.

 

[mlund]

One note I have after playing more last night:

Even after tweaking the tech XML and moving all the costs up 10% I'm still hitting the last tier of technologies before my 9th social policy on standard, on pace to finish the whole tree before policy #10. It'd be nice to be able to clear two social policy trees (12 policies, minimum) with basic builds (monument, temple, random wonders) by the time you clear the whole tech tree on just libraries, great scientists, and the National College.

Is the social policy cost progression rate something that can be edited in the XML files? I'd be interested in testing out some tweaks for something a little less steep earlier on.

- Marty Lund

 

[Putmalk]

One note I have after playing more last night:

Even after tweaking the tech XML and moving all the costs up 10% I'm still hitting the last tier of technologies before my 9th social policy on standard, on pace to finish the whole tree before policy #10. It'd be nice to be able to clear two social policy trees (12 policies, minimum) with basic builds (monument, temple, random wonders) by the time you clear the whole tech tree on just libraries, great scientists, and the National College.

Is the social policy cost progression rate something that can be edited in the XML files? I'd be interested in testing out some tweaks for something a little less steep earlier on.

- Marty Lund

You can tweak them by editing GlobalDefines.xml. You'd have to create a separate file in the mod for this.

Tech pace is too fast? Numitor PM'd me about possible early techs to expand the tree a bit...I may consider them...

Loving the feedback...

In GlobalDefines:
- BASE_POLICY_COST: 25
- POLICY_COST_INCREASE_TO_BE_EXPONENTED: 3
- POLICY_COST_EXPONENT: 2.01
- POLICY_COST_VISIBLE_DIVISOR: 5
- SWITCH_POLICY_BRANCHES_ANARCHY_TURNS: 1
- POLICY_COST_DISCOUNT_MAX: -75

City count mod in Worlds.xml.

 

[mlund]

That's awesome. I can't figure out the equation exactly, though. I know they round to the nearest multiple of 5, but what's the divisor and where does the number of policies completed factor in?

- Marty Lund

 

[Mavs]

I have a question...


This latter-era swordsman unit, the "Elite." That sounds really generic. It just bugs me for some reason. Is there anything else you've considered naming it?

 

[Putmalk]

That's awesome. I can't figure out the equation exactly, though. I know they round to the nearest multiple of 5, but what's the divisor and where does the number of policies completed factor in?

- Marty Lund

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Mathematics_of_Civilization_V

I have a question...


This latter-era swordsman unit, the "Elite." That sounds really generic. It just bugs me for some reason. Is there anything else you've considered naming it?

Heavy Swordsman.

No idea what that unit could be called but I liked Elite over Heavy Swordsman.

 

[Mavs]

I got ya.


Okay, my crashing problem hasn't resolved itself...
It crashed again. I was Alexander's Greeks, playing on your Mediterranean map, and made it to turn 126 I believe.
I had 5 cities, so it crashed at a similar point as the last 3. Lame lame lame...

 

[Putmalk]

I got ya.


Okay, my crashing problem hasn't resolved itself...
It crashed again. I was Alexander's Greeks, playing on your Mediterranean map, and made it to turn 126 I believe.
I had 5 cities, so it crashed at a similar point as the last 3. Lame lame lame...

Trying to replicate the issue now.

The crash isn't caused by units, so that's out of the table.
Nor is it caused by buildings.
Or Policies.
Or techs.

Okay, I've given myself every single asset in the game, and nothing is crashing. Which means I can only give you a prayer's guess on to what's going on.

Maybe your system cannot handle Mediterranean...it is a massive map after all.

Perhaps try a map like...France, British Isles, or something else that's smaller. Or play a standard size map. Anything but the Variety Pack maps. Maybe your computer cannot handle it, or those maps are somehow buggy.

I'm going to play on Mediterranean and see if I can replicate the issue there.

Is it possible to send in a save to me?
Game Speed?
Options enabled?
Civilizations present?

 

[Mavs]

Civilizations present...I'm not exactly sure. I haven't met all of them yet.

It crashes around the same time, but I don't think it was always turn 126. So...maybe it was indeed the size of the map? I think I have tried the Mesopotamia one, Mediterranean one (twice), and a huge (or was it large...?) random map.

Game speed: I've had crashes on both epic and standard.

Options enabled? I didn't mess with anything except turning off the science victory this time.

I could try to send you the save...via pm? Do I post it here?

 

[Putmalk]

PM me, or attach it here, either way is fine.

Updating art requests in a bit, this time for policies.

 

[Mavs]

This should be the save.

 

[Putmalk]

Well, it doesn't seem like you can load a save at all.

I don't know if this is a major bug with Civ 5, or a bug with my mod, but there is no way to find out. I cannot load any saved game without a crash. I'll ask about on the main forum but I doubt I'll get a legitimate answer.

I'm sorry about the crash problems, but if I can replicate the issue on my computer it's impossible for me to debug.

My only other question is: Does anyone else have similar issues?

 

[mlund]

http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Mathematics_of_Civilization_V

Alright, so the equation rolls like this for base cases - no counting any empire size, game pace, or difficulty mods:

Cost = 25 + (6k)^1.7

where:
25 is BASE_POLICY_COST
1.7 is the POLICY_COST_EXPONENT
K = number of policies a Civ already has

I'm more uncertain about the number 6. Is that the POLICY_COST_INCREASE_TO_BE_EXPONENTED attribute?

I'm not sure where POLICY_COST_VISIBLE_DIVISOR and POLICY_COST_DISCOUNT_MAX come into play.

I was thinking about the Heavy Swordsman renaming. I like it, because it has simple continuity, as with the Heavy Spearman.

If another tier of tech comes it to expand things I'd like to see an upgrade tree for the Axemen. I could see a Bronzeworking unit that's Macemen (bronze maces were possible the first weapon invented specifically to kill people rather than hunt animals) then a heavier-stat'd version of Axemen could be used in the Late Classical Period, or perhaps the early Axemen stay and the Late Classical Period gets guys with battleaxes called "Reavers" or something similar.

Maybe an upgraded Horse Archer would work with tech expansion too - something reflecting what the Huns, Japanese, and proto-Mongolians were up to around the end of the 400s.

I think I crashed it once or twice when I first got it install - might've had another mod enabled then, though. haven't had any crash issues since I installed the Polynesia DLC pack (it was the last one I was missing). I remember reading a couple of threads here and there about mods with crashes due to something like the naval route / invasion AI that was added in a patch but went all buggy without the Polynesia DLC. I also haven't run any maps larger than Small at this point. I've been running Small size mads on Inland Sea or Small Continents.

- Marty Lund

 

[Mavs]

You can't load the save? Really?!

That's so weird. It works for me. Maybe my civilization is all screwed up...? lol.
Would it be advisable to just do a complete reinstall and see what happens?

 

[Putmalk]

I was thinking about the Heavy Swordsman renaming. I like it, because it has simple continuity, as with the Heavy Spearman.

If another tier of tech comes it to expand things I'd like to see an upgrade tree for the Axemen. I could see a Bronzeworking unit that's Macemen (bronze maces were possible the first weapon invented specifically to kill people rather than hunt animals) then a heavier-stat'd version of Axemen could be used in the Late Classical Period, or perhaps the early Axemen stay and the Late Classical Period gets guys with battleaxes called "Reavers" or something similar.

Maybe an upgraded Horse Archer would work with tech expansion too - something reflecting what the Huns, Japanese, and proto-Mongolians were up to around the end of the 400s.

I think I crashed it once or twice when I first got it install - might've had another mod enabled then, though. haven't had any crash issues since I installed the Polynesia DLC pack (it was the last one I was missing). I remember reading a couple of threads here and there about mods with crashes due to something like the naval route / invasion AI that was added in a patch but went all buggy without the Polynesia DLC. I also haven't run any maps larger than Small at this point. I've been running Small size mads on Inland Sea or Small Continents.

- Marty Lund

1. Eh I thought it was a bit bland when I had it in...I actually don't like Heavy Spearman and was thinking about changing them to "Phalanx" at some point.

2. I'll do some research.

3. War Elephants added in the next patch should address this somewhat. They're slower, but reaaalllly powerful.

4. Duly noted. I can't foresee a situation where Firaxis would force a player to download a paid DLC in order to resolve crash issues, but if this works...I'm not about to advise someone to shell out cash to play my mod.

 

[Mavs]

1. Eh I thought it was a bit bland when I had it in...I actually don't like Heavy Spearman and was thinking about changing them to "Phalanx" at some point.

2. I'll do some research.

3. War Elephants added in the next patch should address this somewhat. They're slower, but reaaalllly powerful.

4. Duly noted. I can't foresee a situation where Firaxis would force a player to download a paid DLC in order to resolve crash issues, but if this works...I'm not about to advise someone to shell out cash to play my mod.

Have you thought about grouping civilizations into certain categories and giving each category a set number of unique units?

The phalanx idea is a good one, but, for example, those would only be given to the Hellenistic Civilizations!
It wouldn't make much sense for the Celts to run around with Phalanxes.
That would add some additional ethnic and historical flavor!

You could even do the same thing for war elephants, cataphracted cavalry, eastern horse archers (later game?), and stuff like that. It may be too involved though...


I'm not sure how you'd group them all...but I thought it might be an idea!

 

[Mavs]

4. Duly noted. I can't foresee a situation where Firaxis would force a player to download a paid DLC in order to resolve crash issues, but if this works...I'm not about to advise someone to shell out cash to play my mod.

Okay, this may sound stupid, so don't laugh.


But...what is DLC? <_<

 

[Putmalk]

Have you thought about grouping civilizations into certain categories and giving each category a set number of unique units?

The phalanx idea is a good one, but, for example, those would only be given to the Hellenistic Civilizations!
It wouldn't make much sense for the Celts to run around with Phalanxes.
That would add some additional ethnic and historical flavor!

I'm not sure how you'd group them all...but I thought it might be an idea!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, this may sound stupid, so don't laugh.


But...what is DLC? <_<

DLC is Downloadable Content. It's why I have a DLC and non-DLC version, as with the Non-DLC version, Babylon doesn't exist, since Babylon is a paid DLC.

Grouping civilizations based off of locales...sounds like an idea that would take a while to implement. I'll throw it on the drawing board but that's a big change that can't be out for Version 7.

Since you brought up DLC:

1. Have you downloaded/bought any civilizations from Firaxis?
2. Which version of the mod are you playing? DLC or non-DLC?

 

[Mavs]

I don't know anything about downloadable content. I think I've been playing your version that uses DLC. Is that why I am crashing...? lol

 

[Putmalk]

I don't know anything about downloadable content. I think I've been playing your version that uses DLC. Is that why I am crashing...? lol

Pretty much.

Download the non-DLC version and try that out!

The DLC version requires Babylon, Inca/Spain, and Mongol DLCs.

If you don't have those DLCs (Mongol is free, Babylon and Spain/Inca will cost you around $15), I cannot be responsible for crashes that occur on the DLC version. XD

Hope it works now, then.

New notes update:

• Goody Huts are now more varied. New goodies include random barbarian spawns and experience bonuses! Scouts cannot pop bad barbarian spawns.
• On higher difficulties, goodies may produce even more barbarians! Be warned!
• Warriors can no longer receive upgrades via Goody huts.
• Warriors now obsolete with Code of Laws