[GS] Future Update?

[AntSou]

are you really giving an example from a fantasy world where everyone speaks the same language there are no wars between the countries except one major enemy that is at war with everyone and somehow all use the same coins and also apparently same culture everywhere and everyone knows the characters of the ballads of the bards? maybe a little bit of a more realistic example would be better
now imagine medieval europe , all countries at war so you really cannot travel so easily , everyone speaks a different language so you have trouble to communicate basic needs like food and bed , and no one understands the words of your ballads ( which are basically stories you tell )

There's a few incorrect assumptions in there.

- I don't know the whole history of banking, but I know they were already established in 15th century Europe. You could deposit money in Lisbon, get a note of credit (it might be called something else), then present the note in Milan and withdraw your money in the local currency, and vice versa.

oSieyza mentioned the currency didn't matter because what mattered was the value of the metal, but that's not strictly true. Coins could be counterfeited and coinage was one way of providing greater security in trade, in part by standardising its weight.

As for language, back then lingua francas where commonly used by travelling people, usually merchants, but I assume a travelling troupe would need somebody more acquainted with languages as well.

And I don't think the content of the ballads is that important, but you could always change the heroes to local heroes, makes no difference.

 

[SirWill90]

Same here. Barb camp has spawned on uranium. 1 turn later, barbs nuked my capital from sub. As soon as I was first to build Manhattan Project.

This is exaggeration, I hope?

 

[oSiyeza]

There's a few incorrect assumptions in there.

- I don't know the whole history of banking, but I know they were already established in 15th century Europe. You could deposit money in Lisbon, get a note of credit (it might be called something else), then present the note in Milan and withdraw your money in the local currency, and vice versa.

oSieyza mentioned the currency didn't matter because what mattered was the value of the metal, but that's not strictly true. Coins could be counterfeited and coinage was one way of providing greater security in trade, in part by standardising its weight.

As for language, back then lingua francas where commonly used by travelling people, usually merchants, but I assume a travelling troupe would need somebody more acquainted with languages as well.

And I don't think the content of the ballads is that important, but you could always change the heroes to local heroes, makes no difference.

Love how we go from fantasy land to a very detailed discussion about coinage. I will add now that a trick used by some countries was to mix some less expensive metal to create more money than the supported from the national treasure, and that opened a whole new can of worms, haha.

Anyway, you cool!

I can recommend, a Paul Bettany and Willem Dafoe movie called "The Reckoning", a Spanish-British production, about a traveling troupe in the england of the 1300, (and somehow a murder mistery). Not great but interesting, as is something that does not get depicted often, and provides insight on what this kind of life could have been.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

One way or another if you really wanted earlier rock bands (I couldn't really care) and are concerned about actual historical "bands" moving long distances between countries or not . . . well, scale has never been something that Civ games has been very concerned with. You could very well view it as an abstraction like so many other things. Gameplay, I don't know. Rock Bands has already IMO done a bit of damage to the more traditional Culture victory mechanics. Making earlier ones might be an issue.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

The best analogy I can think of for an earlier rock band--at least in the western context--would be Italian Opera. Italy was the birthplace of opera, and many Italian productions went on tour in the 17th century. Indeed, you could argue that the idea of a "concert" evolved from Italian universities in the renaissance (madrigals, oratorios, etc.). And if we consider rock music to have been influenced by Wagner's use of percussion and many rock concerts to be a modern attempt at the gesamtkunstwerk, then it kind of makes sense to tie rock bands back to the original concert spectacle.

 

[DWilson]

I would still argue they haven't balanced it appropriately, making rock bands way too potent. I feel like great works and wonders (especially) should be much more powerful, followed by national parks, then resorts (sea and ski), and only then should rock bands come in as a supplement for a final boost (and I would describe it as touring musicians, rather than only rock bands).

 

[AsH2]

These are not magical battles, it is a smiting from above.
Now you may not believe in this but mock not or ye too may one day be smitten.

Indeed!

 

[Foxforch]

But ask the Belgians abot the French speaking and the German speaking regions of the country, or how German Norwegian and Swedish, are so similar they dont need to Study the new language when they move. The same for Denmmark and Netherland...

If you want my opinion, Swedes understand Norwegians perfectly fine, but German is a bit of a stretch.

I was working at the market the other day and my instinct is to always interact with our customers in Swedish until being told that they don’t understand, and those two were Germans, and as I was going to package their items I heard they speak to each others and I didn’t understand what they said either. I could only hear when words started and ended.

It seems Dutch it closer to Swedish than German in the germanic languages as well according to studies. To my ears personally, Dutch is basically gibberish Swedish.

 

[Duuk]

As for language, back then lingua francas where commonly used by travelling people, usually merchants, but I assume a travelling troupe would need somebody more acquainted with languages as well.

Lingua Franca is a term that LITERALLY derives from the fact that "civilized" society all spoke French until it became gauche in the Napoleonic Era, when English began to take over.

 

[AntSou]

Lingua Franca is a term that LITERALLY derives from the fact that "civilized" society all spoke French until it became gauche in the Napoleonic Era, when English began to take over.

You're mixing two different things. A lingua franca didn't even need to be an actual defined language. Often it was just a mix of romance languages, but the term can be extended to any part of the globe where the practice was used. The term itself derives from Frankish language, but that's about it.

You may be correct in saying that French was the lingua franca of European diplomacy. But you'd be wrong to say that it was the lingua franca of the Russian nobility during Peter's or Elizabeth's reign. Lingua franca implies need and practicality.

A bunch of smug-arses speaking basic latin among themselves at Oxford doesn't mean they are speaking a lingua franca, since Latin serves no practical need to them.

Furthermore the term gets intertwined with franca fairs (that's a literal translation), but here franca stands for tax-free. In Portugal, these were fairs where merchants could perform their activities without having to pay taxes, and it's an important early demonstration of the decline of feudalism and the rise of both centralised power and of a merchant class. Although earlier on the initiative didn't have to come from a king, several Portuguese kings will make use of this institution. The localities of some of these fairs came to be known as vila francas in Portugal, francavillas in Italy and villefranches in France. I don't quite know how this relates with the phenomenon of boroughs.

So lingua francas would be spoken at vilafrancas due to the inflow of merchants and increased commercial activity. It's not unreasonable to consider that many common people would come to associate lingua franca to the pidgin languages heard at feirafrancas and other important fairs, rather than to the original meaning of the word franca, which they likely would know nothing about.

Sidenote: Besides 'tax-free', franca also stands for generous and truthful.
Edit: For a second I forgot the word frank also exists in English, so the sidenote above is actually pointless .
Edit2: Franca specifically means free. Tax-free is implied. But I can't tanslate vilafranca as freetown, which is the more literal but incorrect translation.

 

[Duuk]

You may be correct in saying that French was the lingua franca of European diplomacy. But you'd be wrong to say that it was the lingua franca of the Russian nobility during Peter's or Elizabeth's reign. Lingua franca implies need and practicality.

Ever read War and Peace? Tolstoy makes a point of showing that Napoleon's invasion made speaking French unacceptable, where prior to that speaking Russian was seen as "low class" and in "polite society" one was expected to speak French.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: We're headed way off topic! Please come back to discussing Civ6.

 

[RohirrimElf]

happy new year in 3 hours from warzone the netherlands.

 

[GenyaArikado]

You are thinking way too much at Civ6 gameplay mechanics with the early rock bands thing.

I mostly dont want early rock bands because Ellie didnt get them trobadours.

 

[Ondolindë]

Happy New 2020! All the best from the heart of South America.

 

[AntSou]

Ever read War and Peace? Tolstoy makes a point of showing that Napoleon's invasion made speaking French unacceptable, where prior to that speaking Russian was seen as "low class" and in "polite society" one was expected to speak French.

So you just entirely ignored what I wrote and proceeded to make the same point a second time. Ok. Let's not argue this further.

I wish you all a happy new year full of updates and content.

 

[Jeppetto]

Ok, replace the rock band with a skald, replace concerts with poetry readings, and replace album sales with scribed copies of the poetry. Boom, you got yourself a [probably] historically accurate rock band replacement!

In The Sims Medieval when playing as Bard you have to collect 'Inspirations' to make songs.

I would like to see that kind of stuff. Like Bard that must be adjacent to or on plot with some geographic feature (like moutain or desert, once per region or pass) or Natural/World Wonder (once per Wonder) in order to get Inspiration and then produce work that boosts culture or tourism or something off that.

 

[bite]

Me: I am going to be the calm one to dampen things because while the evidence suggests that they are working on more Civ, we don't know and we need to be careful and concise so as to not raise expectations too much

Also Me: They got Sean Bean in to record new audio! Man the batteries, cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

https://twitter.com/CivGame/status/1212404142313889793?s=20

 

[AntSou]

As far as tweets go, that's really top stuff.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Me: I am going to be the calm one to dampen things because while the evidence suggests that they are working on more Civ, we don't know and we need to be careful and concise so as to not raise expectations too much

Also Me: They got Sean Bean in to record new audio! Man the batteries, cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war!

https://twitter.com/CivGame/status/1212404142313889793?s=20

Is it truly new or left over from some previous recording session?