[GS] Future Update?

[Duuk]

I'm still firmly in the "There will be no third expansion" camp. I've been convinced that there WILL be DLC and those will be bundled into a season ticket, however.

Civ-as-a-subscription has always been something I've thought was long overdue. As far back as Civ4 the modding community had modular Civ packs that could add (literally) hundreds of Civs to the game. We now also know that Civ6 is capable of entire RULESETS being included as DLC. So we know, for a fact, that an Italy DLC could include plague mechanics, a Portugal DLC could include trade route mechanics, etc.

Bring on the DLC!

 

[AsH2]

We have now begun to overanalyse something that hasn't even happened, nor shows any sign of happening.

Truly, we have reached Peak Civfanatics

A religion revamp feels essential now..

R.I.P. Cardinal Biggles (Terry Jones)

 

[AntSou]

Warhammer 2 has 91% (All reviews) / 95% (recent) of positive reviews on steam, which is fairly unusual for triple-A titles these days. Its entire model is based on DLC which is always released along 'FreeLC'. Other than the Blood DLC (which adds blood and gore) and the Hunter and the Beast which has only 61%, everything else has fairly good ratings. Unlike EU4 or CK2 DLC, which often gets a lot of mixed/negative reviews.

DLC are usually new factions or lords with their own mechanics, whereas the free update adds mechanics/updates to the base game. This is evidence people do not abhor DLC as a rule, not anymore anyway, and there's a right and a wrong way to go about it, and Creative Assembly seems to have nailed it in regards to Warhammer 2.

Civ VI could still follow a similar plan, though it would require them to aggressively promote GS (which they seem to be doing). This is because you can't be making new DLC/Updates for both Vanilla and GS.

According to this plan, every three months or so they would release a new Civ/Leader and Scenario pack, along an update patch. The update would include new game mechanics/balances/fixes to GS and the new Civs/Scenario would be representative of the new mechanics. You wouldn't need to buy the DLC to have access to the mechanics, that would be free for every owner of GS. You would only have to pay for the new Civs/Leaders.

Other than a 3rd expansion, which I still think would be the most reasonable approach (for the consumer, imo), if we're going the DLC-path then I hope they do not lock new game mechanics behind small DLC. I just don't think that will fly, and it can raise all kinds of issues. For one, it would require the game mechanics to be fairly separate from one another, rather than interact with one another, which can be terribly limiting. DLC more like Warhammer 2 rather than EU4 would be appreciated.

Guess we'll wait and see.

 

[bbbt]

DLC are usually new factions or lords with their own mechanics, whereas the free update adds mechanics/updates to the base game. This is evidence people do not abhor DLC as a rule, not anymore anyway, and there's a right and a wrong way to go about it, and Creative Assembly seems to have nailed it in regards to Warhammer 2.

I mean that's literally the Warhammer offline model. So if any audience was primed for that...

I'd agree I'm not a fan of the Paradox mini-expansion model. Civ 6 already feels too siloed in it's mechanics. Expansion model, subscription model, or free mechanics in patches and paid 'Content' (i.e. civs, graphical/non gameplay dlc, etc) would all work for me.

 

[AntSou]

I mean that's literally the Warhammer offline model. So if any audience was primed for that...

Sorry, I don't understand that sentence. What's "warhammer offline model"?

 

[Cerilis]

Sorry, I don't understand that sentence. What's "warhammer offline model"?

the tabletop game, I assume

 

[AntSou]

the tabletop game, I assume

Oh, I see.

That's pretty interesting, but I doubt the majority of Total War Warhammer players have ever touched the tabletop game, so they wouldn't be primed for it.

On the other hand it might very well be that Games Workshop has a word (or more than a word) on how CA markets their IP.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

wouldn't coffee indicate a revamp of the economic system, and create a new economic victory condition?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_coffeehouses_in_the_17th_and_18th_centuries

This is definitely OT, but I can't help it: I've thought for some time that we needed a new category or addendum to the Resources:
Addictive Resource. That provides a potentially virtually unlimited amount of Gold from trading it, and also has all sorts of Side Effects on your Civics from using it - many of most of them Negative!
Right now, in the game they would include
Coffee, Tea, Tobacco, Wine, Sugar

And we could always add Opium to complete the picture.

Back to your regular Thread now.

 

[Disgustipated]

And we could always add Opium to complete the picture.

Don't forget Blue meth, only available with the great scientist Heisenberg.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Don't forget Blue meth, only available with the great scientist Heisenberg.

Just one more, and then really, really Back to the Original Topic:

All the artificial addictives not derived from a specific Resource should be 'generalized', possibly as an unwanted Negative from some other Civic/Tech combination. Otherwise the game could never keep up with all the combinations and effects, which really took off in 1939 with the issuing of Methamphetamine to troops of the German Wehrmacht, and the recognition by 1941 that the stuff was having a whole bunch of serious, nasty side-effects.

 

[Ondolindë]

We have now begun to overanalyse something that hasn't even happened, nor shows any sign of happening.

Truly, we have reached Peak Civfanatics

Sorry, but there’s no such thing! If they don’t announce anything tomorrow, new limits will be attained.

 

[pokiehl]

If no news comes tomorrow I'll be pretty disappointed and confused.

 

[Ondolindë]

If no news comes tomorrow I'll be pretty disappointed and confused.

I guess we will know soon enough. But their silent treatment definitely sucks. It’s bad manners to me.

@pokiehl, are you waiting for a fix to the modding tools to release your new Improved Covilizations Mod?

 

[RohirrimElf]

Tomorrow might be a hit or miss. But if there is still nothing announced next week by thursday.
I’ll send a spy to firaxis headquarters (instead of diplomat). No more mister nice guy. I’ll order him to sabotage the coffee machine. So that it is malfunctioning. Devs have been ignoring entertaining us on the winter patch tread for to long.
See it as a prelude to an official denouncement. I am eager to send my troops to the border.

 

[James_Champagne]

Yeah, I've been checking this thread multiple times a day now since at least early November (hell, maybe even before that) and I think I've just about reached the point where I've officially lost patience and/or stopped caring (okay, that last part was not entirely true, ha ha). You would think as a Song of Ice and Fire fan I would be used to long waits with no news (aside from mostly inane tweets), but it's still galling!

 

[Jeppetto]

Tomorrow might be a hit or miss. But if there is still nothing announced next week by thursday.
I’ll send a spy to firaxis headquarters (instead of diplomat). No more mister nice guy. I’ll order him to sabotage the coffee machine. So that it is malfunctioning. Devs have been ignoring entertaining us on the winter patch tread for to long.
See it as a prelude to an official denouncement. I am eager to send my troops to the border.

CivFanatics: ,,I've noticed your recent lack of sharing updates on development. I demand clarification immediately! My demands must be met!"

> Sorry, we forgot, here's list of all features we are planning
> Provides CivFanatics +2 Diplomatic Visibility for 30 Turns

> Shut up, it's done when it's done!
> +10 000 Grievances towards CivFanatics

Firaxis: *Presses second option*

CivFanatics: ,,Very welll... I will not, however, ignore this transgression against the Democratic Kingdom of Free CivFanatic Dictatorial Capitalistic Commune."

-- 10 Turns later --

CivFanatics: ,,I am sorry it had to come to this..."

-- CivFanatics declared war on Firaxis --

 

[Jeppetto]

Yeah, I've been checking this thread multiple times a day now since at least early November (hell, maybe even before that) and I think I've just about reached the point where I've officially lost patience and/or stopped caring (okay, that last part was not entirely true, ha ha). You would think as a Song of Ice and Fire fan I would be used to long waits with no news (aside from mostly inane tweets), but it's still galling!

Yeah, as ASoIaF fan you can imagine it being worse. Like Firaxis developing 3 other games at once while everyone awaits update to the one that's already there. And when the update finally comes, it's a spin-off. That they then too proceed to procrastinate over.

 

[bbbt]

Oh, I see.

That's pretty interesting, but I doubt the majority of Total War Warhammer players have ever touched the tabletop game, so they wouldn't be primed for it.

On the other hand it might very well be that Games Workshop has a word (or more than a word) on how CA markets their IP.

I was being somewhat tongue in cheek, but Warhammer tabletop essentially 'invented' this DLC model in some regard (in the same sense I'd argue Magic the Gathering 'invented' loot boxes offline).

Rough analogy: imagine to play chess you had to come with your own pieces (for your side). And there was a lot of variations/alternatives for the pieces in each position you could choose. Oh and those pieces you are buying individually or in small sets (i.e. two Bishops) ranging from like $20-$50 each at minimum (up to hundreds for fancy ones). Also it's expected to paint them, have a carrying case, etc. And you'll probably keep buying options as you go...

Honestly the Total War Warhammer game is probably a bargain comparatively because entire armies are included at the outset.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I was being somewhat tongue in cheek, but Warhammer tabletop essentially 'invented' this DLC model in some regard (in the same sense I'd argue Magic the Gathering 'invented' loot boxes offline).

Rough analogy: imagine to play chess you had to come with your own pieces (for your side). And there was a lot of variations/alternatives for the pieces in each position you could choose. Oh and those pieces you are buying individually or in small sets (i.e. two Bishops) ranging from like $20-$50 each at minimum (up to hundreds for fancy ones). Also it's expected to paint them, have a carrying case, etc. And you'll probably keep buying options as you go...

Honestly the Total War Warhammer game is probably a bargain comparatively because entire armies are included at the outset.

One addition to your excellent analogy: every once in a while they will change the rules of the game so that the pieces you have already bought are almost useless and you have to buy new ones, at ever-increasing prices.

On the other hand, it has to be admitted that Games Workshop has, using that model, become the largest miniatures gaming company in the world, and has even extended its reach beyond the extremely lucrative Fantasy (Warhammer) and Science Fantasy (Warhammer 40K) miniatures and video/computer gaming into publishing rules for historical miniatures as well. The fact that those rules are in some cases ludicrously inane doesn't make them less profitable: miniatures gamers are almost as bad as Civ Fanatics (having a foot in both camps myself) when it comes to playing anything that is even vaguely related to their core interest, no matter how peculiar the game/rules/system is . . .

 

[AntSou]

I was being somewhat tongue in cheek, but Warhammer tabletop essentially 'invented' this DLC model in some regard (in the same sense I'd argue Magic the Gathering 'invented' loot boxes offline).

Rough analogy: imagine to play chess you had to come with your own pieces (for your side). And there was a lot of variations/alternatives for the pieces in each position you could choose. Oh and those pieces you are buying individually or in small sets (i.e. two Bishops) ranging from like $20-$50 each at minimum (up to hundreds for fancy ones). Also it's expected to paint them, have a carrying case, etc. And you'll probably keep buying options as you go...

Honestly the Total War Warhammer game is probably a bargain comparatively because entire armies are included at the outset.

Difference is that miniatures have inherent value. Digital stuff can't be resold... plus it's entirely dependent on electricity, so if ever we have to run to our bunkers and leave our PCs behind, at least Warhammer fans will have some of their miniatures with them, which then they'll be able to trade for food with the unsuspecting children roaming about while their parents are occupied with more pressing matters.

And that's how they'll survive.