G-Major 137

[Qactus]

...

B&S gets early overseas trade rts with islands (but Terra can have an island or two in the old world)
B&S gets lots of seafood. But that opens up a whole discussion on Sushi vs. StateProperty.

So far I've tried Terra maps with High Sea Level and this seems to provide even the old world with a considerable amount of small islands, depending on the starting position:

 

[kovacsflo]

So far I've tried Terra maps with High Sea Level and this seems to provide even the old world with a considerable amount of small islands, depending on the starting position:

But why high sea level? Don't you want to have more land to settle down? I prefer low seas to get more land, and with tropical climate you won't have that much tundra.

 

[Seraiel]

I will also go Terra low sealevel with either tropical or temperate climate. Temperate could lead to more forests.

 

[WastinTime]

What's the difference in # of Mining Inc resources between the two maps? Anyone want to test this for us all please?

 

[WastinTime]

So far I've tried Terra maps with High Sea Level and this seems to provide even the old world with a considerable amount of small islands, depending on the starting position:

Nice (assuming you're in the North). Problem is that's High seas. I don't think you get that with Low

With B&S, you get islands and seafood everywhere.

 

[WastinTime]

Here's another big secret of mine. Well, it's not a secret if you looked at the 700AD game closely.

Play Terra on Flat. Your distance maintenance is cut 50%!
minor drawbacks: now you have to figure out whether to sail east or west to find the new world, and you can't get circumnavigate bonus.

Sadly, B&S,although it's legal, doesn't have the worldwrap option to play flat
I know there is a bug that affects world wrap on some maps, but I don't think anyone can get B&S flat, correct? anyone?

Now I'm considering Terra again. Tough decision

 

[Seraiel]

What's the difference in # of Mining Inc resources between the two maps? Anyone want to test this for us all please?

I can only tell from the games I've played. In those, there seemed to be equal # of resources, I remember Miming always having been between 25 and 30 , if making an effort at getting many resources. Without effort it's 20-25.

Here's another big secret of mine. Well, it's not a secret if you looked at the 700AD game closely.

Play Terra on Flat. Your distance maintenance is cut 50%!
minor drawbacks: now you have to figure out whether to sail east or west to find the new world, and you can't get circumnavigate bonus.

Sadly, B&S,although it's legal, doesn't have the worldwrap option to play flat
I know there is a bug that affects world wrap on some maps, but I don't think anyone can get B&S flat, correct? anyone?

Now I'm considering Terra again. Tough decision

Flat is not possible, though allowed in HoF. I reported this 2 times already that this should be fixed in the HoF, but nobody cares for us.
Flat maintenance is alsi the reason why I'll play on Terra, I think B&S has other advantages though. Not sure if it's bigger, but getting intercontinental TRs is possible very early on B&S, this somehow negates some of the maintenance. I also think B&S allows for massively more cities when expanding to the islands, not sure if that's important though.

 

[WastinTime]

Next question is : High, Medium, or Low seas.

On standard or smaller maps, it's a no-brainer. Low seas. You need the land.

But if Large is large enough, you might be better off with more tightly packed AI and less distance maintenance of a Medium or High seas map. Discuss...

 

[Seraiel]

Low seas. With maximum opponents the map will be crouded no matter what. Also, there is never too much land if a Chariot / Immortal rush gets one enough cities and those early enough.

 

[Pangaea]

Another point may be whether you max out AIs or not. With more AIs you need less land percentage to trigger domination. Therefore with fewer AIs you can get more land -> more research without risking domination.

Of course, maybe that isn't worth it, and the advantage of more AIs is bigger than being able to get a bit more land for the end game.

 

[WastinTime]

Yea, especially since this is Large.
There should be plenty of land without triggering dom.

I think I agree with the Low Seas argument...or at least medium.

 

[Seraiel]

More AIs make especially rushing early easier. I don't think that 50% land won't be enough, it's provably even gonna be difficult to get so much without playing Incans.

 

[ZPV]

If you're playing B&S, Low Seas I think. More land, more sushi, more population when you boom.
The few Terra maps I've generated on Low seem to be a bit awkward though, even with max AIs. Maybe that can be worked around.

I have a couple of questions for the crowd: Aggressive AI on or off? Do you need the easy CFs after worker-stealing, or is it easier to rush them without AggAI?
Similarly, is warrior-first is the right opening, for an early worker steal?

 

[Seraiel]

What do you mean with akward? Are Terra maps too crowded or do they have too few resources?

I'll play without Agg-AI, because I find that that setting is a pain when it comes to war. I compared Agg-AI once with normal AIs, thread had a lot of pictures. Maybe you can find it? It was in S&T iirc.

I also think worker stealing is not too difficult with Immortals, so I'll go for AH directly and get myself a map with BFC horses.

 

[ZPV]

What do you mean with akward? Are Terra maps too crowded or do they have too few resources?

There can be some very large inlets, between the hardcoded sub-continents, making it hard to explore and putting the AI further away in walking distance than I'd like. (Maybe I just have to get used to it).
Imagine starting in RL Oman, and finding Egypt and Iran covered in jungle. It's a pain to get through.

If the map were more crowded, this wouldn't be quite such a problem because you have a better choice of close rush targets.

 

[Pangaea]

What settings would be best if you go with Big and Small? Snaky with small islands mixed in? Or will that lead to too little 'normal' land where you can get up proper cities?

Generated a few maps, and there is certainly no lack of sushi resources on B&S, that's for damn sure.

Did a rough count on a B&S map, and counted some 40 mining resources.

 

[Seraiel]

I think massive continents will be better, because they're maybe larger, but definitely easier to conquer.

Islands mixed in is correct, map guide says that it has more islands.

 

[WastinTime]

Massive continent keeps everyone in killing distance (well, on large, there might be 1 or 2 AI way out in the ocean)

xpost

 

[WastinTime]

Vassals.
For years I insisted on 'No vassals'.
- It's annoying when someone you want to kill suddenly has a master that you don't want to kill.
- You get -diplo with everyone else
- Also there is the problem of having them expand and trip domination.
- and finally, you have to pay colony expenses in the new world (* advantage of B&S map--more of a Terra problem)

However,
a) domination is a long way off on large
b) a Vassal makes you happy
c) Vassals give you resources
Most importantly, you can direct their research.

I thought my next Space Race I would try to abuse the vassal system. A peace vassal is ideal because then it's not someone you've beaten down. They can still research fast.

What setting is everyone else planning to use?

 

[Seraiel]

I once took over a small map with Immortals, later Elephantand then I think Rifles. I found it quite easy and had conqered everybody somewhere at Physics. Then there is my Giggles game where I conquered everone with Vultures until somewhere near Democracy, ok , that was simply luck.

What I think though, is: I
On a large map, one will automatically have more cities, so also a bigger military. I know that it's more exhausting, but I bet, that with the right luck, one can take over 50% of the map 'til Electricity at latest. Conquest with Cavs + Airships is ultra fast.

So I won't be playing with vassals. If this is better, I don't know.