G-Major 137

[Seraiel]

Has anybody btw. noticed that Darius also has the way better UB? So it's Immortals, a better UB and a decent trait for large empires against PHI only.

 

[Pangaea]

Has anybody btw. noticed that Darius also has the way better UB? So it's Immortals, a better UB and a decent trait for large empires against PHI only.

Not so sure about that tbh; or at least I've considered the Apothecary as pretty weak so far. Lizzie's is late of course, but the stock exchange is pretty nice if corps get so expensive you need to run a low slider. Don't know if that will be the case in this game, but I recall you mentioned that in one of your Replays where you spammed Sushi around.

PHI is pretty nice, though, and in a space game you'll probably get universities in a lot more cities than to just qualify for Oxford, so it could be quite a lot of free hammers. But then that is of course the case with Darius' half-cost courthouses too, so maybe sort of even there.

Personally, I think it will be very interesting to see which of yours and WastinTime's approach that will prove to be most successful

 

[Seraiel]

Half price universities are definitely better than Corthouses, because Corthouses usually come later than units and units are also more expensive.

GPs twice as fast is also better than half price civics, so PHI is really a lot better, but if one has 30% more cities, it still won't be able to compare.

The Apothecary is a very nice UB, basically denies the need for Aqueducts, and in good Space Race, there's only one time where one doesn't run 100% imo (Oxford) , and at that time, Banks Re not even available.

 

[WastinTime]

Not sure what turn 2000BC would be, but it's probably not too far off, and I've only just begun making Immortals and it's already turn 92/2620BC. Have built a Barracks as there wasn't much point in spamming warriors, but other than that I've only built a few warriors plus two workers. Gonna spam some immortals now since I finally got BFC horse and see where that leads me. But it may take until turn 120 until I'm even ready to attack somebody. Hard to get used to everything taking 3 times as long :| Except military units for some reason.

Getting Math will take another half eternity, so suppose you need to do pre-math chops?

You can't build any workers or a barracks this early. This is your problem with getting a successful early rush. You could have had 6 Immortals instead, and you would have a 2nd capital and probably a 3rd city by T92.

Yes, chop pre-math.

 

[Pangaea]

You can't build any workers or a barracks this early. This is your problem with getting a successful early rush. You could have had 6 Immortals instead, and you would have a 2nd capital and probably a 3rd city by T92.

Yes, chop pre-math.

Hmm, then there is something I don't understand somewhere. It took quite a long while before I could produce Immortals, so before that time it was either spam warriors, or a barracks. Not many options for stuff to build. Did capture 3 cities by turn 117, but was then pretty much out of forests, and the new cities were too spread out and unconnected, so couldn't produce Immortals there, so didn't see a way to continue much longer.

Just had a failed warrior rush too now. Will keep trying with the sub-fantastic maps, and hope I "get it" at some point and can try the 2-golds later on.

 

[Seraiel]

Following WastinTime's Logic, it's probably also better to research AH and TW before Mining. Not completely sure though, stolen Workers could make improving the Gold possible very early, and it imo must be improved once the city has enough pop to work the food and the Gold.

Finding AH in a Hut probably gives an amazing game.

But 1 question WT: What do you build when Immortals aren't available yet? Warriors or still a Barracks? Intuition would make me build a Barracks because getting out 10 Immortals won't take long when hoping to rush more than one civ.

 

[WastinTime]

Sometimes I put hammers into Stonehenge (helps if you're industrial).
edit: Just for failgold!

A barracks isn't bad, but I'd try to avoid it and build warriors as long as you either a) don't get too many or b) can get a lot, then rush with them.
Workers are a no no. You need to grow.

 

[Pangaea]

Would need to get Mysticism from a hut then, which may not be the worst thing ever for Stonehenge failgold early.

Warrior rush went better this time; at least I got a city, Paris. Attacked what was luckily only two non-hill archers. Lost 7 warriors from 10, which is probably about as expected. Must admit I have more faith in just going for Immortals though. Albeit WT's Brennus game looked incredibly impressive.

May take a while to get another BFC horse map, but will try without a starting worker and hope I'm lucky. Seems like one really needs a lot of luck though.
1) Get some huts, and get techs from them
2) Get horse in BFC
3) Your capital must be really good
4) Have the right neighbours close
5) That neighbours has few defenders
6) Those cities are not on hills

For all of that to hit home, that takes some doing.

 

[WastinTime]

I also don't know how WastinTime conquers so many cities with units that have mostly failed for me in the past. I know luring out units by letting a city undefended is helpful, but apart from that, it's only number of troops + luck.

It's not luck. Just law of averages. Pangaea can now attest to the success of a 10 warrior rush. Play it safe and take 12 if you want. Fact is:

7 warriors lost = 210 hammers

settler = 300 hammers

And those 10 warriors probably got a worker too, and I bet the city is not size 1 either.

This is a perfectly good way to play a map with great commerce/food in your BFC and then go find a non-hills city with horses if you don't get them in your capital. Should make for more playable maps. Still not as good as having your own horses.

 

[WastinTime]

2) Get horse in BFC

This is the only really hard one/annoying one. It's why I like Inca. Well, one reason.

 

[Seraiel]

I didn't mean the Warriors Wastin, in those I believe, because they're half as strong as Checkers and about twice as many are needed.

I ment the HAs with which you conquered a whole map. Last time I attacked with HAs i focussed very hard and had 10 at 1750 BC. Attacked my neighbour, he had 5 Archers in the border city, which already was lol. More lol though was, that I lost all 10 HAs and killed 2 of 5 Archers. Ofc., no hills city and similar.

 

[WastinTime]

I ment the HAs with which you conquered a whole map. Last time I attacked with HAs i focussed very hard and had 10 at 1750 BC. Attacked my neighbour, he had 5 Archers in the border city, which already was lol. More lol though was, that I lost all 10 HAs and killed 2 of 5 Archers. Ofc., no hills city and similar.

Well, you shouldn't attack 5 defenders . I'm sure they were about to go off escorting a settler soon.

Still, I think you're remembering it wrong. For example, you couldn't have lost all 10. It seems like you must have had at least 2 survive or had some withdraw.

 

[Seraiel]

I had 1 withdraw and 2 survivers. Attacked with them next turn again to see if I'd have luck after so much bad luck. All 3 got killed without even killing 1 more Archer.

So it really was 10 losses for 2 kills.

And the AI couldn't expand. I crowded the map, and it was already fully settled at 1800 BC.

 

[Seraiel]

Tbh, I have not played 1 successful HA rush in all of my games and I always attack ver early with more of them as the S&T guys use. I know that it's bad luck, that's why I still advise it, but seriously, there is no unit I have more fail-attacks with. That's also why I like going Elepult much more. It's not as rewarding, but Elephants at least kill their targets.

 

[Pangaea]

This is the only really hard one/annoying one. It's why I like Inca. Well, one reason.

I can certainly sign that petition. Must have played over 10 maps by now, and have only had BFC horse once. Playing all those turns, 10 times, isn't exactly done in a jiffy either.

 

[Pangaea]

Tbh, I have not played 1 successful HA rush in all of my games and I always attack ver early with more of them as the S&T guys use. I know that it's bad luck, that's why I still advise it, but seriously, there is no unit I have more fail-attacks with. That's also why I like going Elepult much more. It's not as rewarding, but Elephants at least kill their targets.

It wasn't on Deity so it was easier, but I had quite a bit of success with HA-wars in the Immortal space challenge. Was rather pleased with them to be honest. One of the things I don't like with chariots/etc, oddly enough, is that they are too cheap so you can't double-whip them. With HAs you don't have that "problem", so it's easier to manage happiness while also getting good production out of it.

 

[Pangaea]

Not getting horses is really starting to do my head in now. Wasting 30-60 minutes on each map only to never get those damn horses isn't fun.

 

[Seraiel]

If you research AH first, you never ever need 30mins for a map. Maybe 10 if playing slowly.

 

[Pangaea]

I somehow manage to play very slowly no matter what, so can easily spend 30 minutes on 40-50 marathon turns.

 

[Seraiel]

When you have played 30 games with the same opening, all you have to concentrate on is Warrior movement. I can't imagine, how Warrior movement shall take longer than 20s.