G-Minor 12

[Bastian-Bux]

OK, here my hints for other newbies how to solve this gauntlet.

Which civ?

Well, you need either a civ that excels at research (financial being first choice), or a civ that has at least Mysticism as start tech (to get all 7 religions). Hunting as start tech is a plus, as you can churn out 4 scouts quickly to grab the goody huts (which in several attempts on this game brought me up to 5 settlers!!!)

Where to start, or better, where to end?

Great Plains maps have a fairly straight layout, as depicted in the (not very artistic) sketch.

Now, where are which resources located?

Stone can be found in the great plains close to the desert. Marble in the forest and jungle region. Copper and iron in the great plains are as well as in the mountains. Food mostly in great plains (tons of cows) and forest.

But whats about the 3 important strategic resources for late game?

Well uranium and aluminum are both only found in the mountains, oil in the desert and jungle region.

So by now it should be clear which areas we want to own in the end game, right? Remember, we are only allowed to own 51 till 56% of the land tiles depending on number of opponents).

So our aim is to own all of the mountains (cutting off all opponents from uranium and aluminum), the desert area (for tech cities and to reduce the amount of avaible oil) and the coast area, including some djungle spots (for even more oil not avaible to our opponents, and for the water tiles that don't count vs. domination but help research).

So basically we want an L and control 3 of the 4 corners.

Now the question is: where to start?

The most advantageous starting position in my opinion is the southwestern corner.

I tried a very sweet spot (7 cows and 3 wheat) in the great plains, but actually if you start there you'll probably run into domination land size problems. I also tried coast spots: usually not enough production potential.
Didn't try a northwest mountain spot, but lets be honest: we want to control 3 corners, so most logical would be to have our capital in the middle (and Versailles and Forbidden City in the other two corners).
Downside on this place: forget about marble, and even stone is rather unlikely. But, as it is in the desert mountain part, you'll have at least 3-5 flood plains, and should look out for gems, silver or other valuable resources. Plus desert hills make nice mine sites.

All in all a decent place to start, and usually a good place for your capital as the "production wonder city". Yeah, about wonders: basically you want to build all of them in just two cities: your capital and your "sweet spot". Its up to you to decide which of those two will hold all the prophet and engineer wonders (becoming a marvelous production city) and which will go for science and merchant wonders. If you build wonders in other cities, make sure that you can control culture!!! Its horrible to be that close to 2050 and get a 3rd legendary city (that was my first "almost win" I got, I did know at turn 700 that I'd getting a third city to legendary before 1200).

What I did from there was simple: I grabbed all religions, tried to build all wonders, and in the meantime got a nice going 20 city empire (restricted to the corner) that could easily support several task forces of grenadiers. When I had upgraded 16-20 units to grenadiers I was running at 100% science plus, so could afford to eat one of my neighbors. Well, from there on its a cakewalk. Take out the mountain, desert and coast civs, get as close as you dare to your land limit. DON'T take vassals. They ain't worth he trouble (my second almost win).

At this level the AI is usually not competent enough to win culturally. Controlling 50% of the land area, and 50%+ of the pop you can also fend of an AI diplo win. Conquest and domination are out of question for them (though YOU have to avoid domination like hell). Only danger left: space race. Well, without aluminum you did indeed slow them down significantly. Playing them of diplomatically should also reduce the danger of one of them reaching space age to early.

If all else fails, and if you are a wimp like me, you could always nuke them to hell before they can build SDI . Though be prepared to pay the global warming price for this. it won't be nice to your score (I lost 2/3 of my pop due to global warming, and probably at least 50 future techs).

 

[Ozbenno]

Well I finally finished, just shy of 13000 points, good enough for 2nd place so far.

I played very diffently from The-Hawk and Bastien. I was originally going to play as Peter on Warlords but changed my mind and went Mansu on Vanilla as I was intending on changing civics alot (and I did), especially between slavery, serfdom, emancipation and caste system (which I was on for the last 500 years or so, running 16 scientists in the capital).

I started on the eastern side of the map and decided that that half was mine .

I went cottage and research crazy to start, took Civil Service from The Oracle, got to Machinery and then went on the attack.

I wiped 6 civs by around 1100AD (I think) mainly with maces/catapults but a few grenadiers/cannons by the end, giving me all of the eastern half (ie 50%). I never built another military unit the entire game, as I knew the remaining civs (who I never attacked) would never hit space. Wasn't concerned that I had no aluminium or uranium as I didn't need them.

From that point on, I solidified my front and keep flipping the enemy cities on the border, for a controlled increase of land towards domination limit (I ended with just under 55%).

Was at future tech high 200s at the end, with all enemy AI friendly (except Tokogawa who was just pleased ).

 

[Misotu]

@The_Hawk: Your approach for avoiding domination is exactly the one I developed in my Settler games and you're right, it works very well. The only additional thing I came up with was building/capturing rotten cities on my borders and either gifting them to a creative AI or (if they won't have them) gifting them to the AI in exchange for peace (when they seem to take a city just about anywhere!) If you make sure the AI is creative, they hold the borders - and expand against mine - very well, particulary after my missionaries have popped in. I'm still only in the 1700s on my game ... and close to the domination limit despite my great scheme for avoiding it

 

[Methos]

Exactly when is this game over? We have until the 9th, but what time GMT? I'm going to be cutting it close on this one as I'm currently only at 1645 BC.

I'm also curious, whats the average time it takes for you all to complete this game?

 

[superslug]

You'll have all of the ninth, and about half of the tenth.

 

[FoolontheHill]

I just officialized .009 for this one, but please do upgrade as soon as you're done.

I'm not sure if "officialize" is an official verb in the English language, but if not I just officialized as such for the HOF forum.

I went ahead and started over as my first start became mind numbingly dull.

Thanks for being willing to accept the 009 one.

Officialized has a ring of truthiness to it, so it is probably okay.

 

[BLubmuz]

I choose Warlords and Ramesses, anarchy is too much at marathon.

I arrived at FT over 170, despite i used the Oracle for MC (i forgot we need Math for CS, i played Vanilla in the last month).

I stopped to fight at about 50% of land, and another mistake was probably i waited too much to eliminate some civ.
To be honest, i was concerned by the time (RL) factor, and i was not so concentrated on the game itself, in addiction to my lack of experience in this kind of map and level.

I built all wonders but Kremlin (researched FO before communism).

A strange thing: 2 AIs (my buddies) was reserching FT, but never built an SS part.
2 other AIs was building SS (5+3+1 at least) but they missed fusion (then i wasn't too worried).

 

[ori]

So I just finished my attempt for this - just over 13000 points, 270 Future Techs. I used an approach thats new for me (I usually cottage spam ) - pure Specialists Economy, farms everywhere and windmills almost everywhere. Peter in Warlords seems to be ideal for this as the UB gives two science specialists in every city...

 

[a space oddity]

I just made it in time with my second attempt. I didn't have the time to really milk it, so I got stuck at about 11400 points and 231 FTs. I stayed well beneath the dom limit this time (45&#37, which turns out to be too low to really count in this Gauntlet.

 

[The-Hawk]

I didn't have the time to really milk it

I've got the same problem. I've got a good game going, thinking I'm ahead of my previous 373 FT pace. But times a-wastin', and I'm only around 1650 AD. Thinking I'm going to have to get into mindless click mode before I'm ready. No time for any micromanagement or optimal play.

 

[Methos]

I wasn't able to finish in time. The game was hard to stay focused on and I ended up dropping it. Maybe one of these days I'll finish it out of curiosity.

 

[superslug]

Moderator Action: The update is going to be a bit later than I originally planned, due to personal schedule. You have 36 hours from this post to submit. Be advised however, that issues such as incorrect 4000bc files, etc won't have time to be resolved if too close to the deadline.

 

[BLubmuz]

Since i'm probably a bit masochistic, i'm replaying my submitted game from the beginning, and aside the luck to pop 5 settlers from huts (against 1 in the official attempt), i'm in advantage of some 50 turns in research and probably more in acquiring land.

I can figure to gain some 20 FT, arriving close to 200.

I'd like to know how some of you guys managed to arrive at 270 or more.

Does population count more, or are FT the main goal?

 

[Denniz]

Since i'm probably a bit masochistic, i'm replaying my submitted game from the beginning, and aside the luck to pop 5 settlers from huts (against 1 in the official attempt), i'm in advantage of some 50 turns in research and probably more in acquiring land.

I can figure to gain some 20 FT, arriving close to 200.

I'd like to know how some of you guys managed to arrive at 270 or more.

Does population count more, or are FT the main goal?

The factors that control score are:

• Pop = 5000
• Land = 2000
• Wonders = 1000
• Tech = 2000

Basically Pop makes up half your score while techs are only 1/5th. So even if the FT doubles that 1/5th, that still can't beat having nearly 100% of the pop.

 

[The-Hawk]

The factors that control score are:

• Pop = 5000
• Land = 2000
• Wonders = 1000
• Tech = 2000

Basically Pop makes up half your score while techs are only 1/5th. So even if the FT doubles that 1/5th, that still can't beat having nearly 100% of the pop.

I don't agree. Population is fundamentally limited by the total food in available in 56% of the land. When you have farmed every tile, your population hits a limit and stops. However, Future Techs are not limited.

Case in point: last night I submitted a game with a final adjusted score of 20,961. Here was my breakdown:

7,206 from population (2962/2055)
1,037 from land (1909/3680)
25,627 from techs (3857/301)
978 from wonders (225/230)

Total raw score: 34,848, reduced to 20,961 based on finish date.

Some fun facts:

• I built 132 cities. At the very end, I captured 4 more to grab some extra pop and a missing religious wonder, so I finishing with 136 cities.
• I researched 509 future techs! At the end of the game, I was researching more than 30,000 per turn. From about 1600 AD on, I was getting almost one FT per turn. 30K is not quite enough for 1 future tech per turn, but frequent lightbulbing of GPs kept the pace very high.
• Somehow I missed a wonder! I have no idea which one, but I only got 225/230 wonder points. I even moved my capital to see if that counted as one of the scoring national wonders (it didn't). I assume I missed one early and it became obsolete before I noticed.
• I finished with only 52.42% of the land. Unfortunately, I didn't see superslug had extended the time, so I zipped through the last 450 years. I didn't take the time for a late war to extend my land to 54 or 55%, easily could have done so. However, as I noted, land was a minor factor anyhow.
• If I counted correctly, I had 57 Great Persons (next one required 52,200 points):
  
  • 6 Prophets - used 5 for religious wonders, 1 for lightbulb
  • 4 Engineers - 3 were superspecialists, 1 was lightbulbed
  • 3 Artists - 2 superspecialist, 1 golden age
  • 3 Merchants - same as artists
  • 41 Scientists - Built 18 Academies (later captured a 19th), the rest were all lightbulbs.

IMHO, scoring high is all about techs, although population is important. Total land and building wonders is roundoff.

If anyone is interested in a write-up on my strategies and approach, let me know.

 

[BLubmuz]

IMHO, scoring high is all about techs, although population is important. Total land and building wonders is roundoff.

If anyone is interested in a write-up on my strategies and approach, let me know.

I am.

I limited my cities and wars until my economy was solid, and i run science at about 70-80% until 1200, and 80-90% until, say, fission, then i can have some city that can produce wealth and some science, until i has a positive break at 100%, and switched some wealth to science, and built occasionally some military.
Not much cottages, cities need food to grow and to run specialists.
I used Liberalism for democracy and built ASAP lady liberty, running representation for all the game.
Perhaps pacifism was a good choice? i revolted to free religion, free speech and emancipation ASA i has democracy, having OR until that.

 

[Methos]

If anyone is interested in a write-up on my strategies and approach, let me know.

I'm very interested, please. Great job btw!

 

[Ozbenno]

Well I can't claim to have gotten 20,000 points but got 13,000 and have a couple of pointers for ya!

I limited my cities and wars until my economy was solid, and i run science at about 70-80% until 1200, and 80-90% until, say, fission, then i can have some city that can produce wealth and some science, until i has a positive break at 100%, and switched some wealth to science, and built occasionally some military.

I ran 100% for most of the game. I sold techs to the AI until all my shrines were up and I could finance myself, running merchants also helps.

Not much cottages, cities need food to grow and to run specialists.

That's absolutely right

I used Liberalism for democracy and built ASAP lady liberty, running representation for all the game.
Perhaps pacifism was a good choice? i revolted to free religion, free speech and emancipation ASA i has democracy, having OR until that.

BUT what's the point if you're in emancipation. Caste System is the way to go. I was running 15 scientists in my capital at the end of the game. Free religion, free speech and representation are good though (I also ran Pacifism for a good while). I was getting many s for emancipation unhapiness but the 290 s from Future Techs helped out .

Also, I (and I'm pretty sure The-Hawk) took a future tech with Liberalism (in my game in the 1400s I think). With multiple scientists in your cities you should be able to race through the tech tree.

Anyway, I would to like to see a write up from The-Hawk, I could see how to improve my game to get maybe to around 15,000 points (no way had enough Rl time to do so though) but not to 20,000!

 

[BLubmuz]

Thanks Ozbenno for your comments.
I disagree about liberalism, IMHO 1 FT does not count as free democracy + lady liberty with 16 or so turns of advantage in the middle game.

Good point about caste system against emancipation, but the cottage double growth is interesting.

I don't sale techs to the AI, in my official attempt they were close to launch.
But probably you're right, it's sufficient destroy the most advanced, or let them with 1 poor city.

My in game score was over 13000, reduced to some 8800.

Just to be clear, i'm here to learn and improve, not for win ... but wait a bit.

 

[Bastian-Bux]

Come on guys, you can do better. I'm listed as #10 for this game, and I'm an absolutely horrible player.