G-Minor 70

[Robert Smith]

@Sun Tzu Wu: I'm intrigued too Also, I have been trading resources quite early where possible - I often need an extra health resource when the forests go. But I didn't think you could get any relations boost from this inside the time frame until I saw your post - I'm pretty sure it hasn't happened in any of my games. Do you know roughly how long it takes to get the boost from resource trading?

How many turns do you need to get +1 from sharing resources? Is it possible to get +1 from gifting resources (like gold) after x turns?

@Sun Tzu Wu [#1 ] Bump......

 

[unclethrill]

WOOHOO, Cut another 7 turns off. Gonna try a Boreal map now

Edit: 175 years and no change in rank. Oh well!

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

@Sun Tzu Wu [#1 ] Bump......

> How many turns do you need to get +1 from sharing resources? Is it possible to get +1 from gifting resources (like gold) after x turns?

Sorry, I don't know. If its 40 or 50 turns, there won't be enough time between when it becomes possible to give resources until the game ends (< turn 100 or 1500 BC).

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Robert_Marshall]

THIS TIME I submitted a game that actually matched the criteria for the Gauntlet. Now that I am on the board, I can try some other stuff. I chose Asoka and founded Hind and Juda but did not adopt them to prevent infighting. I finished at 65 BC.

edit...forgot to mention, Gandhi didn't vote for me on the first ballot. He didn't adopt Organized Religion. I then sent a couple more missionaries to Hattie for enough votes to win. Zara did not vote for me either. Both Gandhi and Zara went to war against Ramses soon after TAP was completed. I was good with Ram so refused to go to war with him.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

For Hatty & Ramesses it was as you said. For Zara & Gandhi the total of +8 includes the hidden +2 (as well as trading +4, open borders +1 and years of peace +1).

Thanks for the very precise explanation.

I've had Gandhi at +8 (+6 plus +2 Hidden attitude) once or twice when he abstained. I must have had a -1 Hidden diplomatic penalty or two.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Founding Religions:

THIS TIME I submitted a game that actually matched the criteria for the Gauntlet. Now that I am on the board, I can try some other stuff. I chose Asoka and founded Hind and Juda but did not adopt them to prevent infighting. I finished at 65 BC.

Generally, you don't want to found a Religion. You want AI Civs that spread a Religion to other Civs to found the Early Religions (at least Hinduism and Buddhism).

It is OK to found Judaism to ensure you have a Non-TAP Religion to convert to later. Also, Judaism is often founded by a Civ that founded either Hinduism or Buddhism. This Civ wastes time spreading Judaism to all his Cities rather than spread his State Religion to everyone. This makes your TAP Religion Missionaries work harder at converting (the missionary failure rate increases with the number of Religions already present) one or more of his Cities.

edit...forgot to mention, Gandhi didn't vote for me on the first ballot. He didn't adopt Organized Religion. I then sent a couple more missionaries to Hattie for enough votes to win. Zara did not vote for me either. Both Gandhi and Zara went to war against Ramses soon after TAP was completed. I was good with Ram so refused to go to war with him.

Favorite Civic Diplomatic Bonus:

Gandhi's Favorite Civic is not Organized Religion, so it does matter whether he adopted OR or not. It is Hatshepsut and Ramesses II that have Organized Religion as their Favorite Civic.

Shared War Diplomatic Bonus:

You missed a chance for a Shared War Diplomatic Bonus? You just need to declare War on a Civ that is already at War with another Civ to get this bonus. The bonus can get quite high for long Wars. Also, you don't need to use your Military in that stupid War or even have a Military to get this fat Diplomatic bonus. The best reason to decline war is if the Enemy Civ is close by or you noticed any of his Military units anywhere near your City.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Other than shared "common" religion and a shared war, the other semi-frequent +1 that can be obtained is "you gave us help", if you give them a requested tech.

One can't get the +1 "you gave us help" Diplomatic Bonus by one's own initiative. The AI Civ that needs help must ask you for something. In the case of Technologies, one can wait till the very last moment before giving the Technology in the hope that that AI Civ will ask one for it.

You can also get this Diplomatic Bonus for giving the AI Civ a Resource they requested.

One can also get +1 bonus for giving in to an AI Civ's demand. The AI Civ demanding something does imply that one's Diplomacy with that Civ isn't very good and needs a lot of help to get to +8 Visible+Hidden Diplomacy.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Events are another source of Diplomatic bonuses and Diplomatic penalties. In one game, I had two -1 Diplomatic penalties with Gandhi in two consecutive turns shortly before the RL DV Ballot and an earlier Event generated -1 penalty for a total of -3 Diplomatic penalties with Gandhi. Fortunately, I didn't get any Event generated Diplomatic penalties with the other AI Civs and was able to Win that Game.

Consider Turning Events off for Diplomatic Games, either Religious Leader or the UN type. Note that there should be about the same or more Bonuses then Penalties, but I don't recall getting a single Event generated Diplomatic Bonus.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[cabert]

Consider Turning Events off for Diplomatic Games, either Religious Leader or the UN type. Note that there should be about the same or more Bonuses then Penalties, but I don't recall getting a single Event generated Diplomatic Bonus.

I did, more than once. you get the event where you can gift food and gold to a starving neighbour, for +3...

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I did, more than once. you get the event where you can gift food and gold to a starving neighbour, for +3...

I have a vague memory of getting a bonus like the one you mentioned above. That would be useful in a RL DV game.

BTW, I always include Events, because the positive events can be really powerful sometimes and usually the negative events will not cost one the game, but often do cost a turn or more. Its worth the risk to keep Events on in my opinion.

My favorite event is getting a Great Artist in a Cultural game! Or the Elite Swordmen Quest (free CR1 for all swordsmen) for a Domination or Conquest game.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Robert_Marshall]

Founding Religions:
Generally, you don't want to found a Religion. You want AI Civs that spread a Religion to other Civs to found the Early Religions (at least Hinduism and Buddhism).Sun Tzu Wu

That was what I was thinking, but then I ended up with two of them at each others throats, so thought only give them access to Buddhism. I am not so sure it helped me, but that was my best game so far.

This makes your TAP Religion Missionaries work harder at converting (the missionary failure rate increases with the number of Religions already present) one or more of his Cities.
Sun Tzu Wu

That was another reason I only gave them one available. I was playing India for that one so was not very hard to found the religions. I was using the Fast Worker to hopefully get my chops done faster. I certainly am not going to be in the top ten. I have not done as well with Bismark or Qin. I haven't given up on them yet though.

Gandhi's Favorite Civic is not Organized Religion, so it does matter whether he adopted OR or not. It is Hatshepsut and Ramesses II that have Organized Religion as their Favorite Civic.Sun Tzu Wu

Oops.

You missed a chance for a Shared War Diplomatic Bonus?

I was worried about losing the vote of the one I declared on and not getting enough votes from Gandhi. I am not sure now if the vote swing would have done it. I just finished another game where I did declare as Gandhi votes were far and away the most and he voted me over the top.

I am not sure where I am going wrong, as far as finishing before 1000 BC, but I am not giving up yet. I will probably try at least one more tomorrow.

 

[Mesix]

I am not sure where I am going wrong, as far as finishing before 1000 BC, but I am not giving up yet. I will probably try at least one more tomorrow.

I can't seem to break 1000 BC either.

 

[Mesix]

Well...I got a turn 100 (1500 BC) vote. This is the earliest that I have gotten the VC vote to come up. Unfortunately, Cyrus adopted TAP religion through autospread a few turns before and stopped an otherwise great game from completing as planned.

 

[Mesix]

Well, I got a pre 1000 BC win. The vote was close.

Spoiler :

 

[unclethrill]

Well, I got a pre 1000 BC win. The vote was close.

Spoiler :

Congrats! You had to get a bit of good luck eventually on the heels of all the bad luck you've described.

 

[Mesix]

I think maybe it is Vista. A 1000 BC finish is not possible on Vista. I had to get HOF running on my desktop running XP to finally finish with an acceptable date. JK

I'm running map finder to try for a more competative finish.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I think maybe it is Vista. A 1000 BC finish is not possible on Vista. I had to get HOF running on my desktop running XP to finally finish with an acceptable date. JK

Congratulations on your pre-1000 BC Win!

Vista Rant:

Are you having problems with Vista or just Joking about it? I'm running MS Windows Vista without any remaining problems running BtS, C4W or MF. Actually, I have so many non-Civ4 problems with Vista, I absolutely hate it and want to go back to MS Windows 2000 or better yet Linux (if it were possible to run the HOF module on it). I've worked around all the Vista issues with running BtS and MF about a year ago.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I'm running map finder to try for a more competitive finish.

Mapfinder is essential to find the perfect (never happens even after weeks of running MF ) or near perfect starting position (one should get a few of these, but it will still take weeks of running MF ). Mere mortals must make do with a mediocre MF start.

I ran MF overnight with the Pangaea Map and the following morning there were only 9 starts with just 1 with more than 12 Forests (not all in the BFC either; meaning the BFC + the 16 Ring 3 Tiles around the BFC's 20 Tiles). 12 Forests is enough for TAP, but one needs about 2 Forests per the three (the "minimum") TAP Religion Missionaries that will be required for spreading TAP Religion to all four AI Civs (accounts for the free TAP Relgion Missionary on founded Christianity). So, a total of 18 Forests is the minimum needed in the BFC+Ring 3.

The Boreal Map will generate enough Forests for "early RL DV" in almost every Map with enough Commerce Tiles for "early RL DV". On the Boreal Map, one may have to generate TAP Religion Missionaries before TAP itself due to the lager distances through dense Forests that the Missionaries must travel to the most distance AI target Cities. I've prefer to face that problem than not have enough Forests.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Mesix]

Unclethrill runs HOF on Linux.

It's a combination of Vista, drivers, and just plain poor cooling on my laptop that cause such frustration. It crashes a lot, especially when playing Civ IV. My (wife's...yeah right) desktop shoud run Civ IV much better without any issues. I built it myself, and it is running XP. Much better cooling on desltop machines.

 

[unclethrill]

As Mesix said, I run Ubuntu on my laptop and BTS is smokin' fast. MF works with a couple tweaks. If you are really interested in using Linux, PM me and I can help point you in the right direction.